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LanceSaba
05-05-2010, 04:25
i am talking about just having light armor, no mounts or shield. the reason why i ask is because i play WoC and i run a unit or two of marauders with mark of Khorne and great weapons. is it worth it to spend the extra 12 to 24 points to give them an armor save? it seams like there are so many str 4 or better guys out there that just negate it and i feel the usually 24 points can be better spent n my exalted or sorcerer.

Zaustus
05-05-2010, 04:43
Not usually, no. Maybe if you know for certain that you're up against mostly S3 troops, but generally I'd either go naked and save the points, or go LA + shield to get a save that might actually do something.

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
05-05-2010, 05:04
Yea even assuming that you're just going to fight strength 3 troops, a 6+ save isnt going to help very much. Just save the points for something else.

minionboy
05-05-2010, 06:27
A 6+ save against str 3 attacks with 24 marauders means they can take the punishment that 28 marauders without armor could. Since it cost more points to get light armor for 24 than just buying 4 more marauders, it is more cost effective not to.

ArchHeretic
05-05-2010, 06:39
You can look at it this way. Give them the armour AND the shield. What do you get? An Empire swordsman. With rerollable panic checks and a bigger base. You just don't get detachments.

ftayl5
05-05-2010, 09:30
No.

A 6+ save is extremely unreliable even against S3 opponents. And most things these days are S4 atleast.

Light Armour is good if you have other armour bits too, but alone it's a waste of points.

T10
05-05-2010, 14:43
While 6+ and 5+ armour saves are commonly negated these days they do serve a purpose. Sure, if your models cost 5 points each then giving them a 6+ armour save for 1 point sounds like a bad deal: If you have 25 models in the unit you can get an additional 5 models for the cost of their light armour! That's a whole rank!

However, having more models and having more durable models are entirely different things. In close combat, each successful armor save by a single model is worth 1 CR. You don't need to make many of those saves before you've matched or beat what the investment in armour could have bought you in terms of manpower.

So armour is good, then?

Well, it's not that clear-cut. Armour is fine as long as it provides a good enough save that it doesn't get entirely negated, but once negated it's a complete waste: You were better off wearing no armour at all since that would have been cheaper!

i have a theory: that units with a moderate armour save tend to attract enemies that are capable of defeating that save. The higher the enemy's ability to negate saves, the harder the target he'll be looking for. Thus a character with a sword that negates all armor saves is more likely to engage a unit of knights than a unit of archers.

-T10

Stuffburger
05-05-2010, 15:18
Light armor on its own? Probably not worth it on cheap units. If you're already paying for flails and MoK the unit is starting to get expensive- iirc about 120 points for a unit of 12. At that point light armor may be worthwhile, but since this unit ideally will be charging and wiping out most or all of the front rank I can also see going naked. They're going to be a glass hammer either way.

Generally I'd say try to get at least a 5+ or don't bother- I'd run marauders as HW&S + LA or naked with flails and MoK and use some warhounds as a screen since those marauders are a tempting shooting target.

Jind_Singh
06-05-2010, 20:58
its so situational making the 6+ save - I'd rather stuff it and save the points - they will get me a unit of chaos war-hounds! with the shield it's more viable as you have 5+ against shooting and 4+ in combat - now that's decent!

Agnar the Howler
06-05-2010, 23:54
Light armor on its own? Probably not worth it on cheap units. If you're already paying for flails and MoK the unit is starting to get expensive- iirc about 120 points for a unit of 12. At that point light armor may be worthwhile, but since this unit ideally will be charging and wiping out most or all of the front rank I can also see going naked. They're going to be a glass hammer either way.

Generally I'd say try to get at least a 5+ or don't bother- I'd run marauders as HW&S + LA or naked with flails and MoK and use some warhounds as a screen since those marauders are a tempting shooting target.

Never use flails on marauders. Great weapons are far better value, costing the same as a flail but giving the str bonus at all times, as well as offering no change to the armour of the unit and no change to striking times (if flails or GWs charge, they both go first, if they get charged, they both go last). If you get stuck in combat for whatever reason, a flail is next to useless, as you're just left with a hand-weapon and no shield allowed, that's 1 S3 attack each, at least with GWs you're still S5.

ftayl5
07-05-2010, 08:38
basically; only take light armour if you take hw and shield, that give you a 4+ which is a nice save.

Light armour alone is practically useless.

VonUber
07-05-2010, 09:44
to give a unit of 10 marauders light armour is 10pts, for that you can buy 2 marauders and those 2 models are a better than having a 6+ save on the unit.

DaBoss
10-05-2010, 07:27
to give a unit of 10 marauders light armour is 10pts, for that you can buy 2 marauders and those 2 models are a better than having a 6+ save on the unit.

100% agree with this - always the case with my O&G (especially in the previous book edition) take more bods not more armour. You can also field ranks of 6 then and get more hits in close combat.