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fisher368
05-05-2010, 22:19
ok so i am just finishing up my list for ard boys (im a new to 5th and my friends talked me into it) and i have 2 questions to ask you guys

1: who should i take Lysander with 5 man devastator squad with 3 heavy bolters, or vulkan he'stan (i have the stuff to run him)

2: you can take hellfire rounds w/ storm bolters right?

thank you for any answers and advise

Project2501
05-05-2010, 22:29
ok so i am just finishing up my list for ard boys (im a new to 5th and my friends talked me into it) and i have 2 questions to ask you guys

1: who should i take Lysander with 5 man devastator squad with 3 heavy bolters, or vulkan he'stan (i have the stuff to run him)

2: you can take hellfire rounds w/ storm bolters right?

thank you for any answers and advise


1: You should take Lysander with regular (non assault) terminators.

2: Only sternguard can use hellfire rounds IIRC, and even if you can upgrade their bolters to storm bolters, you'd be stuck with the hellfire rounds' weapon profile on a stormbolter much like the poor wording in the scouts wepon options where they can take a heavy bolter but with different rounds (forgot which) which changes the heavy bolter's weapon profile.


All IMO.

fisher368
05-05-2010, 22:36
well thats interesting some of my friends said that

and captains and chapter masters can use hellfire rounds

but if they can use hellfire with storm bolters it just becomes rapid fire

Tethylis
05-05-2010, 22:45
Check the wargear section of the SM codex, am pretty sure it states that hellfire rounds may only be used in boltguns

Garven Dreis
05-05-2010, 23:50
Check the wargear section of the SM codex, am pretty sure it states that hellfire rounds may only be used in boltguns

This is what I thought aswell. It even says


Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun

In Boltgun, read Bolter.

Nezalhualixtlan
06-05-2010, 00:07
Take Vulkan, my nid's have been beaten up enough by lists lead by him to know he rocks. You won't be special or different, I understand he's pretty much the standard go to special character for the marines, but that's for a reason.

Lysander's cool. But Vulkan's better in my book.

starlight
06-05-2010, 00:12
1: who should i take Lysander with 5 man devastator squad with 3 heavy bolters, or vulkan he'stan (i have the stuff to run him)

2: you can take hellfire rounds w/ storm bolters right?

1) No. Lysander should be out with your Terminators.

2) As above.

:)

Without seeing the rest of your list it's hard to give useful advice... :shifty:

calypso2ts
06-05-2010, 01:51
Definitely Vulkan for competitiveness, but Lysander is really fun to run with Terminators and has a cool model too. His 'Bolter Drill' ability is a bit lackluster since he is really built for close combat.

Garven Dreis
06-05-2010, 01:57
Definitely Vulkan for competitiveness, but Lysander is really fun to run with Terminators and has a cool model too. His 'Bolter Drill' ability is a bit lackluster since he is really built for close combat.

There is a discussion going in the Rules forum about this. A good idea is to put Lysander with a Sternguard squad and DP them in. The Bolter Drill rule allows rerolls for the special ammunition, which would help with the Vengeance rounds and allow for a large amount of (accurate) fire on the enemy.

starlight
06-05-2010, 02:12
...and he can provide a viable deterrent against units Assaulting the Sternguard to stop them from shooting, because he can detach from the unit (if you have the time) so they can keep shooting while he Assaults the unit sent to deal with them. :)

Project2501
06-05-2010, 02:26
...and he can provide a viable deterrent against units Assaulting the Sternguard to stop them from shooting, because he can detach from the unit (if you have the time) so they can keep shooting while he Assaults the unit sent to deal with them. :)


Which was already covered in the rules forum thread if you had bothered to search for it/read it/link it (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257333) 5th post Taipan :rolleyes:

On topic, Lysander would indeed work well with sternguard if you want to keep the shootyness from your original idea of having him with a dev squad.

It really just boils down to what does the res of your list look like/how do you want to play (as already mentioned).

starlight
06-05-2010, 02:43
:eyebrows:

As far as my *bothering*, I've been subscribed to that Thread from the beginning, but since the *rules* of it aren't in question, there's no reason to Link there from here.

As well, what I suggested was different from what you linked to (specifically separating Lysander to enable the Sternguard to keep shooting vs his simply being a deterrent).

Project2501
06-05-2010, 02:55
Are you being deliberately belligerent or just obtuse? Neither is a good choice...

Agreed, glad I did neither and informed.


As far as my *bothering*, I've been subscribed to that Thread from the beginning, but since the *rules* of it aren't in question, there's no reason to Link there from here.

If you've been subscribed to that thread since it's inception, I'm surprise you failed to note any/all of the tactical revelancies found within it.


As well, what I suggested was different from what you linked to (specifically separating Lysander to enable the Sternguard to keep shooting vs his simply being a deterrent).

Taking someone else's idea and running with it without giving credit is low-brow at best IMO.

starlight
06-05-2010, 03:05
Wow...

Given that this Thread isn't about tactical relevancies (but unit/option selection) and the other Thread is about rules (as opposed to tactics), I'm amused at your surprise.

The idea that some random person on the Internet needs to be credited for an obvious use of units in a book that has been out for over a year and a half is dubious at best...mostly due to it not being the first...second...or even the tenth time I've heard or read the idea that Lysander is good with Sternguard. Maybe if Taipan had come up with this as a new idea a year and a half ago there might be some issue, but it's nothing new and he certainly isn't the one I'd give credit to (that would go to the first person I heard suggest it back before the Codex came out).

But this is the Internet... *shrugs*

Project2501
06-05-2010, 03:27
Wow...

Given that this Thread isn't about tactical relevancies (but unit/option selection) and the other Thread is about rules (as opposed to tactics), I'm amused at your surprise.

Wow indeed, finding tactical relavancy from a thread discussing unit/option selection in any forum/open discussion is the best way to go about it. Isn't that why this website (and others like it) exists?


The idea that some random person on the Internet needs to be credited for an obvious use of units in a book that has been out for over a year and a half is dubious at best...mostly due to it not being the first...second...or even the tenth time I've heard or read the idea that Lysander is good with Sternguard. Maybe if Taipan had come up with this as a new idea a year and a half ago there might be some issue, but it's nothing new and he certainly isn't the one I'd give credit to (that would go to the first person I heard suggest it back before the Codex came out).

But this is the Internet... *shrugs*


Glad to see you could admit that it wasn't you're idea.

starlight
06-05-2010, 03:35
Glad to hear you could admit that it wasn't you're idea.

So wh both

Never claimed it was... It's *an* idea that has been discussed by many people over the last year and a half... Some people like it and use it, others don't. People who get all wrapped up around the notion that combining units in a codex (ie doing what you're supposed to in army building) are ideas that belong to people perplex me. No one created anything, they added 2+2 and got 4.

Seriously? Putting an IC with a unit that gains a benefit from the IC's rules is something that you feel people deserve credit for...? What next, putting Logan with Devastators to make them Relentless should be credited to the first person who figured out that Relentless Devastators is a good idea...?

Or am I misunderstanding something from your phone...?

Project2501
06-05-2010, 04:34
Never claimed it was... It's *an* idea that has been discussed by many people over the last year and a half... Some people like it and use it, others don't. People who get all wrapped up around the notion that combining units in a codex (ie doing what you're supposed to in army building) are ideas that belong to people perplex me. No one created anything, they added 2+2 and got 4.

Seriously? Putting an IC with a unit that gains a benefit from the IC's rules is something that you feel people deserve credit for...? What next, putting Logan with Devastators to make them Relentless should be credited to the first person who figured out that Relentless Devastators is a good idea...?

Or am I misunderstanding something from your phone...?


What you're misunderstanding is that not only was the idea brought forth already in discussion in another thread, but that you also in no way tried to link/inform the OP of this as Garvin and I did.

Also, by bringing that discussion into this thread you risk getting it locked for thread duplication even though 'someone' should know better as they can easily use the forum tools or even the search function to find the rules as others have been made aware of.

Along with this, 'someone' should probably have moved the rules discussion thread to the tactics forum as the rules question had been answered and it had since become a discussion of tactics... even though someone's "been subscribed to that thread from the beginning".

All of which has nothing to do with my love/hate relationship with my phone as the kids 'commandeer' the computer.