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TrainwreckX
06-05-2010, 17:56
Hey everyone. I'm just getting back into the hobby and I JUST picked up the new Lizardmen army book (I have yet to read it cover to cover, so there may be plenty of little nuances I'm missing). Love that we can take Kroxigors in skink units now. Hate that we can't have blessed spawnings anymore (why do they want to take away customization!?!?!).

Anyway, I'm trying to build a balanced 2.25k list out of things I mostly already own (though I need to buy the Stegadon and Kroq-Gar). The idea is I wanted to try an army that DIDN'T use a Slaan, just for fun. Anyway, let me know what you guys think!

:evilgrin:
1 Kroq-Gar (General) = 635

1 Skink Priest (Level 2, Diadem of Power) = 125

Character Total = 760 = 33.8%


:shifty:
18 Saurus Warriors (Spears, Champ, Musician, Standard) = 246 [running them 6x3]

16 Skinks w/ 2 Kroxigors (Skink Brave) = 198 [running them 6x4 protecting Kroxigors on flanks]

6 Cold One Cavalry (Champ, Musician, Standard, War Banner) = 285 [running them 6x1]

Core Total = 729 = 32.4%


:cool:
6 Cold One Cavalry (Champ, Musician, Standard) = 260 [running them 6x1]

Special Total = 260 = 11.6%


:wtf:
1 Ancient Stegadon = 275

3 Salamanders (no extra handlers) = 225

Rare Total = 500 = 22.2%


Grand Total = 2249

Also, based on what we BELIEVE to be true of 8th edition, do you guys think this list will be legal and decent in 8th? Cheers all!

TrainwreckX
06-05-2010, 18:12
One thing I'm wondering is if I have enough shooting.

Sistine_Shrapnel
06-05-2010, 19:16
1 Level 2 Wizard just won't cut it. Either make him a level 1 scroll caddy, or exchange Kroq-Gar for a Slann and another Priest. Also, the Ancient Stegadon is way better if you get a Skink Chieftan with the Stegadon Warspear on it (2d6 S6 impact hits!)

You also have too few core choices - Cold One Cavalry aren't Core. I would lose one of the two and use the points to buy another few units of Skinks. Between them, the Salamanders and the Stegadon's blowpipes you'll have a devastating but very close ranged shooting phase.

TrainwreckX
06-05-2010, 19:27
Thanks for the response.

I may just cut the level 2 wizard completely, but then I guess I don't have any dispel, which could get me rocked by magic hard. The whole point is I wanted to build a non-Slann list. Maybe it's unavoidable. Maybe Lizards HAVE to take a Slann.

Is what you're suggesting even possible on the Ancient Steg? From what I recall (at work without the army book in front of me) they don't have any options at all.

Cold One Cavalry can count one unit as core if you take Kroq-Gar.

Gaargod
06-05-2010, 20:58
Noooooo

I use a cav heavy lizardmen list. Few pointers:

> Don't use Kroq Gar. Standard oldblood on carnosaur will do at least as much damage and is almost 200pts cheaper. Try Glyph necklace + blade of revered tzunki or blade of realities + enchanted shield (and mundane gear, in both caseS).

> As long as you're willing to let spells through, a lv2 with diadem and scroll is actually quite efficient. Saurus cav are rock hard, and spells tend to bounce off them. There's usually only a couple of MUST STOP spells anyway (i.e. spirit of forge, beast cowers in some situations, etc).

> Lose the saurus on foot. The rest of your army is lightning quick, with the slowest thing being the steg! They will get left behind and never do much.

> So to get minimum core, go for 3 x 10 skink skirmishers. Such useful little things...

> Lose full command off saurus cav. Standard is all that's required - to get everything you need in the list, you really have to shave points off.

> Split the salamanders into 2 units of 1, with extra handler. They work very well as disruption units, but not so expensive that you really care. People tend to either a) pour an inordinate amount of fire into them or b) ignore them. Either is good.

> Skrox, are, unfortunately not so good. OR at least, i haven't found them to be. Saurus cav will hit harder and (more importantly) are a lot harder to kill

> What sistine-shrapnel is suggesting is to remove the anicnet steg, then give it as a mount to one of the skink hero choices (in this case, skink chief with stegadon warspear). Its brutally effective, but not exactly cheap. Nor is it required - your whole army is designed to support the cavalry and carnosaur, you don't need another heavy hitter.

> get some terradons. Invaluable march blockers, redirecters and war machine hunters.

> With the points spare, get another unit of saurus cav and 2 saurus heroes. Seriously, there's that much spare going, and more.


At 2.25k i get:
Carnosaur lord with gear
saurus hero bsb with gear
saurus hero with gear
priest on ancient with diadem + scroll

30 skink skirmishers

2 x 5 saurus cav with banner
1 x 5 saurus cav with banner and warbanner

2 x 1 salamander with extra handler.


I think. Well, more accurately, at 2k i have all that minus the engine, but i forget what i lose to find the extra 45pts. If you want, search into warseer something like lizardmen 2k rapid. Or look under my threads started.

The idea behind it is this: Saurus heroes are ridiculous. At the end of the battle, there's usually hero + banner left from the original unit - but that will still break a lot of things. People ignore them, but they're worth like 250pts at that stage, and kill stuff good.
The support (skinks, salamanders, terradons) are invaluable. They will allow you to get charges and snipe rank bonuses. They also deal with stuff the cav can't (poison/auto panic salamanders/drop rocks). Be aware that as monsters and handlers, salamanders can remove rank bonuses with a flank charge.
The carnosaur lord is a beast. Not hugely survivable, but not bad. Challenge if you're versus static combat res 4 or more - you will almost always get 6 from overkill + wound on champions, with no damage back. Can pin down units until cav get in the flank.


Never, ever believe anyone that says LM need a slann. I've had 2nd (dammit, would have been 1st if i had my last 2 turns in game 1) and 3rd in tournaments with that list at 2k. SLann + engines is more effective, no way around it. But its not, in any way shape or form, the only way to play.

TrainwreckX
12-05-2010, 19:06
Gaargod, thanks so much for the advice. I am listening to it and in the process of building a list that sort of fits what models I own, but also fits what you've told me, because it all makes a great deal of sense.

I did, however, come across an entire unit of Temple Guard that I didn't know I had last night. They even have a full command unit. I'm trying to find out if they are legal to use at GW, etc. If I can use these in tournaments and such, I may go back to running a Slaan for now. Not sure. See pic below and let me know if these are legal models in the new army book (I'm concerned their weapons are spears and not halberds).

http://guidestobuy.com/images/actionfigure/upload//images/I/41tbS8JoN2L.jpg

Kayosiv
13-05-2010, 10:52
1 Kroq-Gar (General) = 635
1 Skink Priest (Level 2, Diadem of Power) = 125

Character Total = 760 = 33.8%

18 Saurus Warriors (Spears, Champ, Musician, Standard) = 246 [running them 6x3]
16 Skinks w/ 2 Kroxigors (Skink Brave) = 198 [running them 6x4 protecting Kroxigors on flanks]
6 Cold One Cavalry (Champ, Musician, Standard, War Banner) = 285 [running them 6x1]
Core Total = 729 = 32.4%

6 Cold One Cavalry (Champ, Musician, Standard) = 260 [running them 6x1]
Special Total = 260 = 11.6%

1 Ancient Stegadon = 275
3 Salamanders (no extra handlers) = 225
Rare Total = 500 = 22.2%


Grand Total = 2249

Also, based on what we BELIEVE to be true of 8th edition, do you guys think this list will be legal and decent in 8th? Cheers all!

Slann are not needed at all. I don't own one and don't plan to, and I played a game tonight against Brettonia and won by 1900 points.

With that said here we go. Kroq'Gar is neat, but he is too expensive. His magic spear and bound spell are awesome, but you are in effect paying OVER 200 points for them, this will never be worth it in games under 3000 points.
Instead pick an Oldblood with light armor, Glyph Necklace, and spend the remaining 70 points to taste. There are plenty of good items, but as simple as an enchanted shield, firefly frog venom, and a mundane spear can do very well. You can also give him some amazing magic weapons and enchanted items, do what you will. Regardless, that will save you 200+ points.
Mount you skink priest on the Engine of the Gods. This will actually SAVE you points as you do not need to make him level 2 (he will generate an extra dispel and power dice due to the engine) to get the full use out of the diadem of power and it will keep him much safer. That will save you 20 points and a rare slot.
I highly recommend a BSB, they are immensly useful with cold-blooded. Either get a minimalist Sauru Scar-vet with few/no magic items (keep him cheap) or a skink chief on a terradon for mobile leadership.

For your core, I too would recommend NOT using skinks mixed with kroxigar. Use your saved points to get a unit of 10 skirmishers and a unit of 10 javalin skinks. You might wish to add a single kroxigar to a unit, then you should increase the unit size to 11+ to get a 2nd rank. I disagree that Sauru are too slow and get left behind. You want something in your army that you don't mind being charged, and they play the role of the anvil very well.

For specials, keep the units of knights as you have them, but consider losing the musicans and champions, they will rarely do much. At least keep the unit without the war-banner cheap.
Add a unit of 3 Kroxigar in here, do not buy a champion.
Consider chameleon skinks or terradons. War machines hurt, and you want something to fight them early, both are good choices.

With only your Salamanders left in rare, consider splitting them up into smaller units, or getting a unit of 1+ razordons. Salamanders are amazing at shooting at knights and ranked infantry. Razordons are amazing at shooting at fast calvary and monsters, use the strengths of both.

*EDIT: Those temple guard models look perfectly legal to me. If you plan to use them without a slann, do not use your Sauru, and just use a unit of 15ish temple guard instead, add more skinks for core if you have them. They are an even better anvil unit then Saru with their improved armor save and weaponskill 4, but you won't do the kind of damage that spears are able to accomplish, however that will rarely matter as in your high speed army you should be using them to prevent active combat resolution of the enemy, or charge things with halberds.