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View Full Version : Savage Orc army list with a twist! [2250]



happy_doctor
06-05-2010, 22:52
As the 7th edition of warhammer is coming to a close, I decided to give the greenskins a go, as I've got the models lying around. I always liked the savage orcs, primitive greenskins who hit as hard as a ton of bricks! So here is the army list I came up with:

HEROES
-Savage Orc Great Shaman, Lvl4, Shagga's Screaming Sword, Collar of Zorga, Waaagh! Paint This guy is obviously multi-purpose, acting as the single source of power/dispel dice, leadership, and being actually quite good in a challenge and in combat in general. He'll be casting the Waagh! spell a lot.
-Savage Orc Big Boss, LA, Shield, Great Weapon, Maad's Map I am amazed that people don't use this item, since with 4 ws5 s6 attacks he will be more than a match for warmachines and shooting regiments! Even if he fails to scout, his combat prowess will help out the combat blocks.
-Forest Goblin Big Boss, BSB, Gigantic Spider, LA, Backstabber's Blade, Tricksy Trinket. Not an optimal build, but with careful maneuvering he will be able to flank/rear charge something sooner or later, and then his weapon will make a difference.

CORE:
-12 Savage Orcs, Extra Choppa, Musician, Boss
-12 Savage Orcs, Extra Choppa, Musician, Boss
-12 Savage Orcs, Extra Choppa, Musician, Boss
-25 Forest Goblins, Shields, Musician, Standard
-24 Forest Goblins, Shields, Musician, Standard
-5 Spider Riders, Musician
-5 Spider Riders, Musician
-8 Spider Riders, Full Command A retinue for the BSB, they can take on light units to the front, or flank charge more powerful foes and win with weight of numbers and 2 banners.
-2 Snotling Bases
-2 Snotling Bases

SPECIAL
-Boar Chariot (since there is no savage option, these will have to do)
-Boar Chariot
-Savage Boar Boyz, Shields, Spears, Musician Cheap and expendable, but very hard hitting!
-Savage Boar Boyz, Shields, Spears, Musician

RARE
-2 Pump Wagons
-Giant Some reliable hitting power, one of the few hard-hitters that cannot be baited!

Total: 2250 points

Ironically enough, this is a finesse army, relying on coordination of charges, screening and baiting to get the most out of the frenzied orcs. Spiders and snotlings are there to keep the savage orcs headed to the right direction, gobbos add their ranks and chariots/giant support the blocks. The goal of the savage shaman is to get stuck in combat soon, making good use of his Waaagh! paint to cast several spells per turn, despite only having 6 power dice.

So, thoughts on the list? Any obvious mistakes/omissions/weaknesses?

rtunian
07-05-2010, 00:09
with 1 caster and no bound spells, it is not a good bet that you will be casting waaagh! all that often, save for rolling sixes. bsb in fast cav unit is a wacky decision. also, your lord and bsb, your 2 most important characters, are made of paper.

gobs should have more in each unit, and think about giving at least one of those blocks of gobs bows, as you presently have nothing to deal with a large target (or threaten anyway)

happy_doctor
07-05-2010, 14:44
Thank you for the reply, rtunian! Some good insight there. First, let me explain my thinking behind some choices, then I'll try to implement some of the changes you proposed.

-Great Shaman: While it is true that 6 power dice won't cut it any more, his waaagh! warpaint should help a bit; With most spells in the lore costing around 8, that +2 to cast means that he will be able to reliably cast them with 2 dice once in close combat. So you're looking at 3 spells per turn, which means that some of them will go through. On the subject of the big Waaaagh! spell, he'll be trying it with 5 dice, hoping for the double 6's. Most armies only have a scroll or two, so by turn 3 he'll have relatively free reign.

-Combat potential of Shaman: Agreed, 6+ ward save is in no means adequate protection, but I was hoping that the combination of T5 and collar of Zorga would help him out. His sword means that most of the time he'll be attacking back with 4 s6 attacks, so hopefully enough to kill enemy champions/heroes. Another idea would be to swap the collar of zorga for the amulet of protectyness, but then he'd be an easy kill for monsters and the like. What do you think?

-BSB: He is very easy to kill, but I'm hoping that, being inside a fast cavalry unit, he won't be easy to catch. An alternative would be giving him the Spider Banner (which is equally fitting) and fielding him inside one of the goblin regiments with bows. Then I'd have something to threaten large targets, although I'd lose the surprise element of the big fast cav unit.

Further thoughts: I was thinking of giving my boar boyz champion upgrades, gaining 3 ws4 s5 attacks seems like a sound investment.

Any ideas where I should get the points for the suggested changes??

rtunian
07-05-2010, 15:11
throwing 5 dice at a spell is a very, very bad idea:


MathHammer states that chance is 17.82%, and the chance of miscast is 19.62% (miscast is higher because if you roll both a miscast and IF, the miscast takes precedence).

also, you roll for spells before the game starts, so your opponent will know if you have waaagh!. if they are a savvy opponent, they will know what it does (either by already knowing, or by asking you at the start of the game), and as a result will save all of their dispel ability for dispelling this spell.

further, with just 1 caster, you might not even roll the waaagh! if your whole plan is based on 1 spell, you'd better get that spell :) in 8th, this might be moot, as there is a rumour that you can choose your spells. but who can say for sure about 8th right now~

as for where to find points... that's tough to say without redesigning your list. what you can do is go over your list with a red pen and check the things that you absolutely must have, and note the things that you can do without. this is a taste thing. once you know that, i can help you with the rest of your list.

by the way, are these forest goblins the old metal ones? or are they plastic multipart common gobs used as forest gobs? or are they plastic monopose bfsp/battallion spider riders?

happy_doctor
07-05-2010, 23:37
throwing 5 dice at a spell is a very, very bad idea:

also, you roll for spells before the game starts, so your opponent will know if you have waaagh!. if they are a savvy opponent, they will know what it does (either by already knowing, or by asking you at the start of the game), and as a result will save all of their dispel ability for dispelling this spell.

further, with just 1 caster, you might not even roll the waaagh! if your whole plan is based on 1 spell, you'd better get that spell :) in 8th, this might be moot, as there is a rumour that you can choose your spells. but who can say for sure about 8th right now~

as for where to find points... that's tough to say without redesigning your list. what you can do is go over your list with a red pen and check the things that you absolutely must have, and note the things that you can do without. this is a taste thing. once you know that, i can help you with the rest of your list.

by the way, are these forest goblins the old metal ones? or are they plastic multipart common gobs used as forest gobs? or are they plastic monopose bfsp/battallion spider riders?

Unfortunately I don't have any of the old metal forest goblins, so I have to choose between using the spear gobbos from the 4th edition boxed set or the riders from the BfSP spiders. Unless you know someone with 50 classic forest goblins who would like to part with them for a reasonable price! ;)

Back on topic, I've played two games with the list so far, against Dark Elves and Dogs of War. Both were very enjoyable games that ended in favor of the Savage Orcs.

My preliminary evaluation is as follows:

Things I liked:
-The Giant. I've used a giant in the past in my skaven army, so I know how to protect him and make the most out of him depending on the circumstances. He's very useful against large monsters and heavy cavalry, and a great tarpit against opponents with low initiative or not many attacks.

-The pump wagons: Used as support for the main blocks rather than suicide units, these work wonders. They are also good for blocking frenzy charges from my main blocks, which is always a good thing.

-Savage orc boar boyz worked fine as well, although people tend to target them early on and their 4+ save doesn't do much to protect them. I like the fact that they are expendable, but cannot be ignored.

-Orc Chariots: What's not to like? Hard-hitting chariots that don't suffer from animosity!

Things that I didn't like:
-The large spider rider unit hasn't worked like I want it to, so far. It draws a lot of fire, and outflanking an enemy isn't that easy, so as to gain the bonus from the backstabber's blade.

-Shagga's Screaming Sword hasn't come into play yet, since Dark elf assassins and other combat characters are too much for the squishy shaman. If I find that I use the shaman more defensively than intended, I may change his gear.

-Savage Orcs: I use these more like maneuver elements, setting up traps and threatening units, rather than like hammers. Perhaps units of 10 could do the same job, giving me the points to upgrade the gobbos with bows.

-Goblins: I still can't believe how pricey these are compared to clanrats or night goblins. However, the theme requires forest goblins and so it will be. Having some static combat resolution is nice, though. One of the things in my agenda is to try giving them shortbows, perhaps with the Spider Banner BSB.

I haven't had the chance to test the scouting orc (there were no adequate hiding places in both my games) ,but having the option to do so is a plus. A better choice would be a scouting black orc, since the bonus waaagh move could catch people off guard, but it doesn't fit the theme.

Magic has worked great so far, the list has so many mage-hunters that dispel scrolls/dice start to become scarce by the end of turn 3/4. Overall, I like the list, but will try the suggestions you've made so far.

Another thing I'm considering is getting some trolls, but both giant and pump wagons are too good to part with...

Ozorik
08-05-2010, 08:51
I like your thinking behind this army. There are things that I would change (like the snotlings) but nothing that drastic. I wouldnt bother with the boarboy bosses, its only 1 extra attack each.

The shaman's vulnerability could be lessened by giving him the amulet of protectyness

happy_doctor
28-05-2010, 11:14
Ok, so a little update on the list. I've been thinking of turning this into sort of a blog where I'll record the games I play with the army and my subsequebt thoughts. So far I've played 5 games with the list and every single one of them has been a blast!

1) VS Dark Elves: Solid Win.
The orcs succeeded in weathering the original magical barrage (9 power dice+power of darkness worth), and got the advantage when a miscast from the supreme sorceress allowed my great shaman to cast the waaagh! spell. This helped my boyz get in range for some very interesting charges on turn 3, leading to the demise of his supreme sorceress in a unit of spearelves and the massacre of a 14-strong executioner unit with assassin (I've got the pump wagons to thank for that).

2)VS Dogs of War: Minor Win
My opponent was using the experimental list from www.tilea.org, which gave him access to some very powerful options. (cannon with master engineer, Goblin Hewer, pikemen, cheap heavy cavalry and, more importantly, Gotrek and Felix. These two have upgraded rules that make them hard as nails!)
The first few turns involved the orc heavy targets avoiding the cannon/hewer and maneuvering into position, while the chaff tried to keep gotrek and the two pikemen units occupied. By the end of turn 3, both enemy mages had been dealt with, so I was able to cast the waaagh once more and kill off both warmachines, a pikemen unit and some crossbowmen. This represented a huge points swing, but it all balanced out when my shaman miscast and blew his brains out while trying to persuade Gork to step on Gotrek! MVP's were the pump wagons and chariot, who managed to charge a 25-strong unit of pikemen and kill most of it in a turn.

3)VS Skaven: Massacre Win
A nice pestilens-themed force with a healthy amount of magic (8 power dice), lots of chaff, a furnace, 2 units of plague monks, 2 units of plague censers, a WLC and a plagueclaw. This game was decided by a couple of rolls: a misfire that destroyed the WLC, a failed panic test for the plagueclaw and a plague that I allowed to be cast and subsequently killed 50 or so skaven and 30 goblins! This obviously hurt the skaven player more than myself, since it left him with little to support his frenzied troops. Bait and countercharge resulted in a massacre win.

4)VS Dogs of War: Solid Win
Same player, same army book, but different list and different approach. (2x Pikemen, Paymaster's Bodyguard, marksmen of miragliano, duellists, cannnon with master engineer, truthsayer with 2 fenbeasts, killer lord) This time he played more agressively, killing my pump wagons early on with his cannon. I had to sacrifice half my army to silence the cannon and get the rest into position, but by the end of turn 4 the three main enemy units were stranded in the centre of the board, surrounded on all sides. Despite getting the scoll caddy early on, I could not capitalise on magic superiority due to animosity (my shaman lost 2 important magic phases). Highlights of the game included the giant taking a charge from the paymaster's bodyguard and jumping up and down on them for 3 rounds, enough for my spider riders and BSB to charge them on the rear and kill them to the last.

5) VS Chaos Warriors: Win
This was an ETC list, so it was the hardest I've faced with my orcs. It included Daemon Sword Nurgle Lvl 4, Runesword Khorne exalted on chariot, 2xTzeentch Sorcerers on Disks, 3x5 Khorne horsemen with flails, 3x5 dogs, 23 marauders of slaanesh with flails, 6 Rage Knights of Nurgle, Slaanesh Giant.
The first two turns saw the orcs take heavy damage, giant clinging to life with 2 wounds and my Great Shaman on 1 wound due to a sick Rot, Glorious Rot. At the beginning of turn 3, I took a gamble: I set up several charges with the Waaagh! spell in mind and charged with some of my units to pin the enemy in place. An Irresistible Force later, 2 units of horsemen, 2 units of dogs, the marauder block and the Khorne BSB were dead, with the sorcerer lord engaged on his own against a full unit of gobbos and one of the tzeentch disk riders fleeing from the giant. (The khorne exalted was baited by snotlings and flank charged by a chariot, savages and boarboyz, leading to his demise.)
At that point my opponent forfeited the game, mainly due to the fact that a single spell completely changed the battle (he could have still gotten my lord and giant with another rot, and then it wouldn't have been easy for the greenskins).
MVP has got to be the Great Shaman, his magic resulted in a 900 point swing in one go!