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Darwin_green
06-05-2010, 23:56
with the rumors about 8th ed i realized i will have to get quite a few more Mtd marauders to make my Mostly mounted chaos army work.

so would it be worth it to take Marauder horsemen with light armor, shield and spears in units of 10 since heavy cavalry might be losing their march move? I was wondering since 500pts of Mtd marauders is a lot.

Agnar the Howler
07-05-2010, 00:02
Unless Fast Cavalry is also getting altered in 8th, it might be best to leave the shields at home and just stick with light armour, taking both means they're no longer fast cavalry, something which can help quite a bit.

It also depends on how mounted spears will work, for all we know it might be best to keep them with flails.

theunwantedbeing
07-05-2010, 00:11
Nobody knows, those that do will get fired if they tell.

They're plastic models anyway.
Not exactly tricky to slice apart and re-assemble if the setup you like in 7th doesnt work for 8th.

Or if your lazy just say "these flail armed guys have spears, not flails".
Nobody really cares either way.

Best not to think about 8th ed.
Unless you absolutely love WotR of course as every rumour points towards 8th ed = WotR.

Ozorik
07-05-2010, 07:36
I think you will find that it is only 1(credible) rumour.

Spears aren't that bad a choice, its what I use. If you don't mind a slight drop in effectiveness then they are a perfectly fine choice. They will also highly likely to have the same cavalry rules in 8th ed as they are now, something that is more uncertain with flails. You don't have to attach the shields, they work better as fast cavalry now anyway and if 8th ed makes medium cavalry advantageous then its easy to simply add shields.

ftayl5
07-05-2010, 08:47
It depends on the role you intend to use your marauder horsemen in, to me there are 2 main setups:

Throwing Axe: this setup is cheap, teh unit is expendable, remians fast cav, couldn't break anything on a charge-purely a harrying role.

Spear, Light Armour, Shield: Right now your thinking I'm insane, let me explain. The spear gives +1 Strength which is handy, obviously a flail would make more sense, but this negates the ability to use the shield. So why not drop the shield?? Well, as you should no, fast cavalry CANNOT NEGATE RANKS. However, if given light armour and shield, marauder horsemen are no longer fast cavalry. This unit can now negate ranks, making them perfect support chargers for the all-crushing chaos knights. They have a 4+ save, so although your target will most likely direct all available attacks at your horsemen, they'll still have some survivability.

Several units of 5 with no command work best.

This tactic/setup works this edition, but I have no idea how anytthing will work next. I wouldn't be planning ahead and fretting over rumours wait until 8th ed. arrives, then panic :)

Chaos Undecided
07-05-2010, 10:03
Think your getting your rules mixed up there unless you're talking about something in the new edition I havent seen yet but Fast Cavalry can negate ranks subject to the usual unit strength 5+ qualifier only skirmishers can never negate ranks. However Fast Cavalry can never claim a rank bonus themselves.

ftayl5
07-05-2010, 10:17
Are you sure?? If he's right, discount almost everything I said in my above post. I may have read the rules wrong.

If fast cav can negate ranks, then maruader hprsemen with flails and nothing else would work well on the offensive. Throwing exes and nothing else for teh harrying role.

Basically marauder horsies should be kept as ceap as possible. Under 100pts if possible. Never take command

SatireSphere
07-05-2010, 10:24
In 7th edition fast cavalry can indeed break ranks, but they can't gain a rank bonus of their own.

If they remove the strength is directly proportional to armor save negative rule, I can see flails being less effective, but still fairly powerful. The medium cavalry version of marauder horsemen will be key for chaos mortals in the future because of their ability to be fast and be core (and the ability to take a standard). Big units (10 or so) could become the norm for speedy objective takers.

Darwin_green
07-05-2010, 19:10
well, I'll just get the ones I'll need for this current edition since flails will probably just be as useful till 8th edition.

T10
08-05-2010, 17:14
Would it not be more prudent to read an actual copy of 8th ed. before making sweeping changes to your army?


-T10

Darwin_green
08-05-2010, 21:41
if any of the rumors(the switch to percentages) are true, my army wont be playable next edition.

Zaustus
08-05-2010, 23:36
For this post I assume the validity of the 25% characters rule.

Most Chaos armies are going to need to change if that's true. Since our characters are very expensive, we run up to that cap very quickly. The most competitive Chaos build is super character heavy (like 1000+ points in 2250), so that build pretty much just goes away. Even my army will be over at 2250, mostly because I use Banner of the Gods.

I think it doesn't hurt to plan ahead and build some theoretical army lists under the % system, but I certainly wouldn't change any actual models or make any purchases/sales before the actual book arrives. Way too much of 8th is still really sketchy and unknown at this point.

Darwin_green
09-05-2010, 16:58
I was thinking more of the 25% minimum of core. even at 1000pts, my core is only like 162(2 units of horsemen), not including hounds. so even then I'm shy 90pts. I don't even want to think about the other 338 points I'll have to fill it up for a 2000pt game.

Zaustus
09-05-2010, 19:41
The minimum 25% core pushes WoC towards infantry. I mean, yeah you could fill 25% with horsemen and warhounds, but it'll be much easier to take one good sized warrior unit to fill up a lot of those points.

I play a lot of infantry already, so I'm good on that front, but it'll certainly be a change for the folks using lots of dogs and cavalry. Three units of horsemen as your min core (since dogs don't count) isn't going to cut it anymore. Even if you kit them out a bit, 3 units of horsemen and 3 of dogs is less than 400 points. I suspect that's intentional. Along with the character % cap, the big-magic-and-knights army is looking much less feasible.

Darwin_green
17-06-2010, 20:37
well, now that 8th edition is out, I'm thinking of trying out a block of 10 marauder horsemen.

at least cavalry will get attacks in the second rank too, granted they lose out on the horse attacks(who we all know do the real killing) in the second rank.

having 3D6 charge will be handy, and especially considering how much easier it will be to run through terrain now I should really be able to get M.Horsemen with flails on the flanks(especially with vanguard).

nick_robinsonchia
17-06-2010, 20:43
Not having much luck with horsemen in 8th (playing rumor rules which seem to be pretty spot on from the sound of it)

I use to love my 8 strong MoK flail wielding lunatics. Now they just get torn to shreds.

I cant see marauder horsemen playing a melee role at all aside from running towards warmachines. 5 Strong with flails, LA, Mus at 86 points (MoS for taste) seems to be the only setup that sometimes work.Personally i dislike the Throwing axe version this Ed. Marchblocking has been reduced.

It seems MH suck balls this ed sadly. They can negate rank bonus but not ranks so basically anything with a rank bonus will be stubborn vs u, not too mention if they lose and stick around they can reform with a successful ld test, combine that with a BSB who allows rerolls of ld tests, combined with Stepping up, TLOS and..... MH are point sinks other than warmachine/ VERY light unit hunters.

Darwin_green
18-06-2010, 00:16
maybe it's one of those things where people aren't using enough horsemen?

Cartoon
18-06-2010, 20:15
I think they're just to squishy for this edition. Horsemen have always been vulnerable to shooting, and with the increased amount of missile fire and attacks from the 2nd rank and step up they quite simply don't have the survivability to make an impact. Regular marauders are cheap enough where their defense is actually in their numbers. 50 marauders will die in droves but there's so many that some will be left to attack back. With horsemen, they're to expensive to get the numbers you need to rack up kills.

Unfortunately they're stuck in a sort of limbo at the moment. I suppose you could try a unit of 15-20 of them and see how that works, or a unit of 10 or so for warmachine hunting. Regular marauders seem like the preferred version this edition.