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LuitpoldFrohlich
07-05-2010, 05:47
What happens if a unit champion becomes frenzied when the unit does not?

The Carnosaur Pendant, being less than 25-points and an enchanted item, seems legal to bestow upon a Temple Guard champ. Assuming so, what happens after the champ becomes frenzied?

A character would obviously charge an enemy unit, leaving the non-frenzied friendlies behind. A champion cannot leave his unit, but neither does he cause it to become frenzied. So how is this handled?

Does the TG simply become frenzied?

Does the TG have to charge and pursue as if frenzied, but not receive any additional attacks?

Does the champ become frenzied, picking up the additional attack and forcing pursuit, but incapable of charging unless the TG declares a charge of its own?

Does the champ not become frenzied? In other words, is it legal but pointless to give the champ the pendant?

Or am I missing a rule that makes it illegal for the champ to have the pendant?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but my efforts to find an answer, either in the GW FAQs or here, have come up empty thus far.

Necromancy Black
07-05-2010, 06:06
The champion would have to measure for a charge if the TG unit doesn't declare a charge. If the TG unit is found to be in range Frenzy on the champion will force the unit to charge (even if the champion himself won't get into base to base contact, he'll still be in combat).

He'll also force the the unit to pursue and be the only one to get the extra attack.

If the Slann dies and the TG are still alive, the champion will also loose ItP.

Finally, why the hell would you ever do this over giving him a magic weapon instead?

Zaustus
07-05-2010, 06:12
It's definitely legal to give the Temple Guard champ the Carnosaur Pendant. As soon as he inflicts a wound (not his unit--him personally) he does indeed gain Frenzy.

What that boils down to is that he personally gets +1 attack, and forces the unit to charge, pursue and overrun. The rest of the unit gets all the drawbacks of frenzy, and only the champ gets the benefit. If he were a normal character he'd have to charge out of the unit (if it didn't already declare a charge), but since he's an integral part of the unit, he'll force the entire unit to check for Frenzy charges.

Note that normally, Frenzied models/units cannot declare charges voluntarily, but must wait for Frenzy to make them charge. In this case, since the rest of the unit is not frenzied, I think it would be okay to declare normally. If you don't declare a charge, though, you'll still have to check if anything's in range for frenzy charges.

LuitpoldFrohlich
07-05-2010, 06:15
Thanks to you both.

I wasn't actually considering it. The list I was working on had exactly 20 points to spare, so I was checking out all possible options. When I reread some of the rules regarding frenzy, I started to wonder how this would be handled.

T10
07-05-2010, 07:18
The champion is a rank-and-file model with a few special considerations. The rules do not take into account individual rank-and-file models being subject to frenzy (or stupidity, ref. those wood elf arrows of mental retardation).

I figure the best way to deal with them is to have them affect the unit in the same way as would a bona-fide character, except that the champion cannot leave the unit.

-T10

soots
07-05-2010, 14:30
On another note, say a character is frenzied in a frenzied unit, the unit cannot charge due to needing more movement for a wheel, but the character can charge because he doesnt need a wheel.

Does the character have to charge out of the unit?

Pille
07-05-2010, 15:42
On another note, say a character is frenzied in a frenzied unit, the unit cannot charge due to needing more movement for a wheel, but the character can charge because he doesnt need a wheel.

Does the character have to charge out of the unit?

Yes.
This can happen in a beastmen army with a gorebull in a unit of minotaurs. So be careful how you position the character in the unit.

ColShaw
07-05-2010, 16:37
On another note, say a character is frenzied in a frenzied unit, the unit cannot charge due to needing more movement for a wheel, but the character can charge because he doesnt need a wheel.

Does the character have to charge out of the unit?

Yeah. That's why Savage Orc characters in non-frenzied units should never, never ride boars.

Atrahasis
08-05-2010, 16:19
They should avoid riding boars in frenzied foot troops too, since they'll still be easily charge-baitable.