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plasmadaemon
25-05-2005, 14:42
Are necrons stronger than space marines? They do have the same stats.

:confused:

Yorkiebar
25-05-2005, 14:54
Fluff-wise, no, although the real necron fighting units have yet to be revealed. Rules-wise, yes, because of the gauss weapons.

Typheron
25-05-2005, 14:57
a one on one fight between a space marine and a necron warrior in the fluff would be won by the space marine as the necron warrior is little more than a drone and not entirely sentient. The marine has a clear one on one advantage here as he is capable of possably more independant thought than the necron warrior.


game wise there guns and the fact they can sometimes get back up make them nastyer than marines as Yorkiebar has said.

athamas
25-05-2005, 15:09
its along the same lines as 'iis an IG infantry man as strong as a SOB in power armour'

not on their own, SM are strong, very strog, but they are not strong enough to warrent S5!

if the main stats were spread out more then marines would be strongser, but for the toned down 40k rules, they are the same strength!

Flame Boy
25-05-2005, 19:26
I would say a Necron would be comparable strength to a space marine, but tougher... they used to have 2+ saves in 2nd edition, which would put them between power armour and terminator armour in toughness.

Are Necrons really just drones? It does seem disappointing if they are... I'd think it would be more impressive if they were sentient, but so obsessed with jealousy and desire for revenge that they cannot think rationally... Waiting for billions of years in a tomb is bound to give you plenty of time to dwell on you negative emotions... Sadly, all the fluff I've seen to date points towards them being tin toys with very little intelligence. I'd prefer it if there was a trace of Necrontyr in each Necron Warrior, just horribly distorted by aeons of warfare, dormancy and extended naps in stasis tombs.

I suppose it's a relative thin... I would expect there to be space marines that are stronger than Necron warriors and those that are weaker.

athamas
25-05-2005, 19:37
ermmm... necrons had 3+ saves in 2ed!!!!

Typheron
25-05-2005, 23:01
my understanding of necrons are that only the lords are truely sentient with the warriors being a bit like the thousand sons marines, automatons more than anything else. The lords lead them and they follow the commands, The lords are probably bitter and twisted beings following the whims of crazed star gods.


necrons only had a 3+ save in 2nd ed, athamas is right about that so i would say they are realativly as tough as marines but not as smart and probably not as quick. The exception is of course the lords who are probably twice as smart and nasty.

athamas
26-05-2005, 08:39
the hirarchy was

lords
Imortals
warriors



Lords were still sentiant, and retained most of thier knowlege/character ect..

Imortals were stil capable of sentient thought, being the best/strongest warriors,

Warriors with rather thick, slow witted drones that swarmed the enemy

Wiseman
26-05-2005, 09:29
id say a marine would be stronger then a necron, only because if the necron was stronger, GW would improve the marine so it is the best again.

Scythe
26-05-2005, 10:47
Remember necrons are machines; metal killing machines. In terms of pure power, I think a necron would overpower a marine, since mechanical limbs can produce more power than any living tissue limb, no mather how enchanted/powered up. However, the marine would be quicker and probably trough this more skilled than its necron opponent, hence they have the same S.

athamas
26-05-2005, 10:54
for reference advanced bionic arms in =][= are S80 each (160 total) whilst a marine has S around 200, without power armour...

remember, power armour also has servo's ect, adding to a marines already great strength!

the creator
26-05-2005, 11:14
i agree with scythe...

the necron warriors that are emerging are "powed down" versions of there former glory days detailed in eldar methology. in the past, ( before the great ctan hibernation) the eldar discribe the basic necron warrior being as powerful as the current necron lords. these where when the ctan fought the old ones and their spawn races in the dawn of time.

how about a army of that, eh?

Scythe
26-05-2005, 16:08
for reference advanced bionic arms in =][= are S80 each (160 total) whilst a marine has S around 200, without power armour...

remember, power armour also has servo's ect, adding to a marines already great strength!

Ahh, but human advanced bionic arms are nothing compared to necron technology (I think....:p). Anyway, I still think a necron would overpower a space marine in an arm wrestling contest, but they would be very equal in a free fight (pmaybe a slight advantage for the marine).

Str10_hurts
26-05-2005, 16:19
Marine is quiker and has tactics

So look at it as a fight were marine solves problems how to defeat it and has the dexterety to keep out of to much harm.

TheSonOfAbbadon
26-05-2005, 16:43
i agree with scythe...

the necron warriors that are emerging are "powed down" versions of there former glory days detailed in eldar methology. in the past, ( before the great ctan hibernation) the eldar discribe the basic necron warrior being as powerful as the current necron lords. these where when the ctan fought the old ones and their spawn races in the dawn of time.

how about a army of that, eh?

Those were the warriors of the Great Void Dragon, not all the Necrons were like that.

6th and Final Champion
26-05-2005, 16:55
YEt another reason it probably wouldnt be a good idea for him to be released.

I think that a space marine has a good chance of winning due to his multiple strategies and tactics. But who knows what kinda crazy gadgets the Necrons have in their systems. Plus, even though the space marine kills him doesnt mean he wont get up. And....robots dont tire.

plasmadaemon
26-05-2005, 19:27
I agree with scythe here,
Necrons are machines and have necron technologies in them, i imagine a necron would be about 8 foot tall with big clunky (or smooth) armour and it's power potentiall would be greater than the space marines's

in a ffree fight i think the marine will just keep punchen the damn thing in the face, and as soon as the necron sees a chance it will grab the sm by the neck and do a terminator (think of the fight between the two terminators in t3)


sorry if this is confusing i'm just too bugged up by my chicken pox....:(

athamas
26-05-2005, 20:04
um.. hos are you sopposed to grap a marine neck in all that armour?

Lostanddamned
26-05-2005, 20:48
Seen terminator?

Straight through the flexible tubing stuff they have alound thier necks, poke thier eyes out, smash power cables, be cold and punishing

athamas
26-05-2005, 21:07
i guess, but by this point a marine would have knocked the warriors head off, so its rather a moot point!

plasmadaemon
27-05-2005, 09:22
but it's living metal.....it's very hard to bend......

athamas
27-05-2005, 09:27
who said anything about bending?

im talking about a full on puch to the head whilst grapaling with one of the things arms,

i expect a marine could take a necron head clean off with a well placed punch,

necrons have necks also, so they are a weak point!

Briareos
27-05-2005, 09:32
Necrons having robotic bodies, their control centers ('brains') aren't necessarily located in their heads - similarity of shape is the same as similarity of internal structure. Hell, with their nano-tech, the control centers are probably spread throughout the 'body', hence the capacity to 'regenerate' even when blown appart.

athamas
27-05-2005, 09:34
true, but from the los of them they are based on a n old race, that made the machines in their image, and most of their visual sensors are in the head!

Briareos
27-05-2005, 09:44
'Rule of cool' aside, the 'space skeleton' aspect could be construed as a kind of psychological warfare similar the more 'obvious' aspect of the Necrons flayers.

I understant what you mean, Athamas, but I wouldn't be to quick to jump to conclusions based solely on imagery when it contradicts base logic (or basic strategic warfare know-how).

What is the use of super-nano-tech if all its development are limited by eon-old biological paradigms ?

athamas
27-05-2005, 09:57
true, but necrons are .. um eons old,

and were designed to fight the eldar, who are not known for their strength!

SM on the other hand are a biological monstrosity designed for killing...

Briareos
27-05-2005, 10:16
true, but necrons are .. um eons old
Exactly - I find it hard to believe the robotics bodies of the Necrons haven't evolved in some way through the ages so as to make them more durable to war-time conditions. And it's way easier to protect a CPU in a chest cavity (which can be heavily armored) than in a cranium.


and were designed to fight the eldar, who are not known for their strength!
The War in Heaven pitted the robotic Necrons against all the servants of the Old Ones - the Eldar were just one race amongst many. Furthermore, your adversary may be physically weak, but if he can use a railgun (or a similar weapon), you need armor. Physical strength is no longer relevant once a civilisation discovers missile warfare (guns).

Scythe
27-05-2005, 17:54
Tough not really in 40k, were a lot of races just do better beating the enemy on the head with a club or axe (or talon, claw, wathever)....:p

Hey, not everything needs to be realistic...;)

Norminator
28-05-2005, 07:57
Of course, going with the movie marine stats, Space Marines would pound necrons...

plasmadaemon
28-05-2005, 11:25
Of course, going with the movie marine stats, Space Marines would pound necrons...

Please no..... :cries:

they are so ***8*** up
:mad:

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-05-2005, 11:36
The War in Heaven pitted the robotic Necrons against all the servants of the Old Ones - the Eldar were just one race amongst many. Furthermore, your adversary may be physically weak, but if he can use a railgun (or a similar weapon), you need armor. Physical strength is no longer relevant once a civilisation discovers missile warfare (guns).

Too bad Eldar didn't really have any guns back then.

And, physical strength is relevant, it helps you move and fire a gun, carry heavier guns, and if your enemy has armour enough to resist your fire you usually charge forward and stab him, without physical strength you're not going to do much damage close up.

Scythe
28-05-2005, 14:21
Well, if the enemy survives a salvo of lascannon shots, I doubt you'll do much damage if you charge him with your combat knive....:D

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-05-2005, 17:27
Lascannon, maybe not, but Lasgun...

Twisted Ferret
28-05-2005, 21:17
Space Marines may be strong, but if you're fighting a metal warrior whose technology is far more advanced than yours, who can't feel pain, who has no fleshy weaknesses or illogical emotions, who just gets back up every time you knock it down, who is METAL... I doubt you'll be able to do much.

Scythe
28-05-2005, 21:28
Lascannon, maybe not, but Lasgun...

Ahh, yes. And there's always the quantity factor over the quality factor... ;)

Lord_Sanguinius
29-05-2005, 07:56
A necron against a marine is like bone against rock, both are strong but the rock wins.

Briareos
29-05-2005, 07:59
Too bad Eldar didn't really have any guns back then.

And, physical strength is relevant, it helps you move and fire a gun, carry heavier guns, and if your enemy has armour enough to resist your fire you usually charge forward and stab him, without physical strength you're not going to do much damage close up.
Eldar having been crafted by the Old Ones as living psychic weapons, their psychic powers would have replaced guns. At least at first.
The Eldar myth also claim that Vaul created weapons for them, amongst which are the Engines of Vaul and the Blackstone fortresses.

Strength quickly becomes irrelevant because only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-05-2005, 11:37
The explain World Eaters. :p

Oh, and you are right about the psychic powers thing, but alot of the Eldar were not psychic, so they had to fight with spears, swords etc.

The origin of the Wraith Lord was during this time, it was an attempt to create something that could destroy the Necrons, it succeeded.

Scythe
29-05-2005, 12:07
Really? I never knew wraithlords and guard were originally created to fight necrons. Makes sense tough; fight automatons with automatons.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-05-2005, 12:11
http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology/3

Scroll down to the part of the conversation after the green drawings of the Blackstone Fortresses.

Scythe
29-05-2005, 12:19
Ahh I see. I think a slightly different version of that text was in WD once (I believe slightly after the release of codex: necrons), correct?

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-05-2005, 12:27
I'm not sure, I rarely get WD, and I joined the game near the end of 3rd ed.

Chances are it was in WD, however, many background articles on he GW website come from WD.

Flame Boy
29-05-2005, 19:35
necrons only had a 3+ save in 2nd ed, athamas is right about that so i would say they are realativly as tough as marines but not as smart and probably not as quick. The exception is of course the lords who are probably twice as smart and nasty.

If yourself and athamas are correct about Necons only having a 3+ save in 2nd edition then I must apologise, because that would mean my p32 in issue 217 of White Dwarf is misprinted. It is the issue that had the metal necron miniature on the front, They were Str 4 and T5 as well, making them tougher than Space Marines, they had superior armour and equal strength. In 3rd edition they were downgraded so that the Immortal could be created. When there was only necron lords, warriors, scarabs and destroyers they could have 2+ save, but when they were promoted to full army status in 3rd edition they needed some elite troops, so the basic warior was slightly reduced in power to allow this.

Add to that fact that when Necrons were first released in 2nd edition their disruption fields would cut out powered close combat weapons, so the power weapons that are their Achille's heel now used to be useless when the Necrons first materialised. That lovely ornate Crozius your Chaplain wields would become a big stick.

Both the Necron warrior and the space marine would have long-term combat experience (after all, the Necrons existed as warriors before the Imperium existed and battled the Old Ones, so they should be able to tangle with our best bio-enhanced space monkies and fare reasonably).

I guess it depends on who you are rooting to win, but I will stick to my guns and say it depends on the individual space marine regarding who's stronger than a Necron.