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View Full Version : New to VC 2250 (with 8th rumors in mind)



Tomalock
09-05-2010, 05:27
So I am new to the Vampire Counts and am trying to craft a list that fits with the worst case scenarios of 8th (25% characters and rares, pain of magic, etc). I first got really interested in them when I saw how cool the Blood Knights are. I was going to field a bunch, but am limited to 562 points of them (only spent 550). So to make up for it I decided to add some Black Knights too (also only spending 25% on specials). I'll post some thoughts on what I want to do with them at the end. Here it goes:

Heroes

Vampire w/ BSB Drakenhof Banner, Dread Knight 275pts

Vampire w/ Blood Drinker, Dread Knight 165pts

Wight King /w steed, Sword of Kings 115pts

Total Heroes: 555pts

Core

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Skeletons x20 w/ Icon of Vengence, SB, musician 197pts

Crypt Ghouls x20 160pts

Zombies x20 80pts

Total Core: 597pts

Special

Black Knights x10 w/ champ, Banner of Barrows 317pts

Black Knights x5 w/ barding, Banner of Hellish Vigour 209pts

Total Specials: 526pts

Rare

Blood Knights x9 w/ Banner of Strigos 550pts

Total Points: 2228pts




Ok so I know its not a very good list from the current VC perspective, and believe me I wouldn't be fielding this for 7th, but it seems like a good worst case scenario list. I am doing conversions for the Blood/ Black Knights, so its much more affordable than buying the real models. Basically the 2 vamps go with the Blood Knights, the WK goes with the big block of Black Knights. The wolves screen the force and protect the Blood Knights from themselves (frenzy). The other core aren't the most exciting, especially 20 zombies, but I need the blocks to be big because I won't be getting magic off, that is already a given with just 4 power dice.

The focus of this list is the formations of knights, so everything (including the heroes) is crafted around them. So would love thoughts and suggestions about how I can deliver them into combat more efficently than what I have listed. I'm pretty set on the units of Knights as I am already converting them, but if anything I will be adding more Blood Knights if the rumors of the % prove to be false. So fire away! Thank you in advance.

Ovassilias
09-05-2010, 12:04
i think its better to wait for the edition before u start to convert so many nights.

If the rumor about marching is true having 3 hard hitting units that get in the fight round 3+ is not too wise imo.

allso, we dont know the minimum core requirements, wolves and zombies as it is now they DONT count for it, eitherway your list with the current rules is not legal, u have 2 core counting and at 2k u need 3.

anyway, imo u should drop zombies alltogether and make 2x20 skellies, 2x10 ghouls for your minimum core.
Keep the wolves and split black knights into 3x5 units or 2x7 to get bats as well.
Split blood knights into a unit of 5 and a unit of 4 one with a vamp each.

Drop wight king for 2x necromancers with invo and dance, even if magic phase gets really toned down vampires need it.

i think u are going for a blood dragon theme yes?
a more effective approach since u dont want to relly on medium/heavy magic is :
core
20 skels fc, 180
20 skels fc, 180
10 ghouls 80
10 ghouls 80
7 dire (black knight screen) 56
7 dire (same) 56
special
7 black knights (naked, used as flank chargers with 8M and getting march from blood knights) 168
7 black knights same 168
4 fell bat (blood knight screen and machine hunters) 80
4 fell bats same 80
rare
4 blood knights,banner,strigoi (blood drinker vamp) 275
4 blood knights, banner (drake bsb) 240

heroes
vamp, dread knight, bsb drake banner 275
vamp, dread knight, blood drinker 165
Necro, invo+ dance 70
Necro invo 55

so, u have normal magic phase to heal casualties, decent foot slogger numbers (ghouls help skellies) and 2 heavy dutty flanks with black knights screened by wolves, blood knights screened by bats to help everyone there march.

Tomalock
10-05-2010, 01:42
We must be looking at different VC books because in mine zombies do count towards the core requirement and I just bought mine a week or two ago, sure you have the most recent one?

Some interesting thoughts. My big hesitation about splitting up the blood knights is that I want to have the front rank 6 wide. With the rumors of stepping up in close combat, I don't know if units of 4-5 knights will cut it, especially if they get hammered moving accross the board. As for the characters, do you think a ld7 general will cut it? Atleast with the Wight King as general he's a ld9.

Definatly some interesting things to consider, thanks for the input. I definatly appreciate it!

Ovassilias
10-05-2010, 09:03
We must be looking at different VC books because in mine zombies do count towards the core requirement and I just bought mine a week or two ago, sure you have the most recent one?

yeah they do, u r right, that last beer was not needed i guess:p



Some interesting thoughts. My big hesitation about splitting up the blood knights is that I want to have the front rank 6 wide. With the rumors of stepping up in close combat, I don't know if units of 4-5 knights will cut it, especially if they get hammered moving accross the board. As for the characters, do you think a ld7 general will cut it? Atleast with the Wight King as general he's a ld9.

Definatly some interesting things to consider, thanks for the input. I definatly appreciate it!

the stepping up based on the rumors is for infantry only not cav, dont know if someone said something different in the last 2 days.
Also u need a vampire as a general u cant have the wight king (im sobber now:p)

Tomalock
10-05-2010, 17:21
As for the stepping up, I was refering to the unit I was attacking. Winning combat means little if my 4 blood knights are all dead from the attacks back. Based on the rumors, I think depth in elite units is going to be necessary to see them survive multiple combats throughout the game. Especially if I can't reliably raise them back in my magic phase (although the blood drinker can mitigate this to a degree).

Thanks again for the replies! Still learning the army so glad to have the feedback! :)

EDIT: Found what I needed for the general on page 88

Tomalock
08-06-2010, 18:45
When the 8th blackbox is released in a week or two I'll probably post a solid list, but I am considering some of the newer credible rumors and think I might adjust my list a little right now.

For starters I think with the 25% lord and 25% hero breakdown I will convert my hero vamp into a lord. I don't think I'll add anything to him (although depending on how magic levels work I might pay the points to give him another level) so he would just bump up to 270. I also might drop the Wight King for 2 Necromancers with no upgrades, but if the 2D6 magic pool is true that might be unnecessary as the vampires can cast to their hearts content.

Secondly, I am almost certainly going to drop unit of 5 barded Black Knights. With low initiative they just seem to be a liability. They could potentially be valuable flank chargers, but there are other things in the list that would be more useful for that. The big unit of Black Knights is a question mark for me. On the one hand they can move through cover, have magic attacks, and killing blow. However, they do have a low init and only a 3+ armor save. With strike in I order, stepping up, and stubbern infantry blocks, I have to wonder if they are going to be worthwhile. I enjoy my conversions of them, and will probably play with them initially, but I fear I won't be able to use them autonomously as I do now and will instead have to use them to support the Blood Knights. If that is the case I will probably drop the unit size and consider other options for those points.

Finally, core is a big question mark still. If core with banners are required to take objectives, then I will take skeletons without a doubt. If not then I will just take ghouls. Regardless, both choices will be big blocks (currently running with blocks of ghouls of 20, 19, and 18).

In any event, the current list version I am considering is as follows:

Characters

Vampire Lord w/ Blood Drinker, Dread Knight 270pts

Vampire w/ BSB Drakenhof Banner, Dread Knight 275pts

Wight King /w steed, Sword of Kings 115pts

Core

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Ghouls x20 160pts

Ghouls x19 152pts

Ghouls x18 144pts

Special

Black Knights x10 w/ champ, Banner of Barrows 317pts

Rare

Blood Knights x9 w/ Banner of Strigos 550pts

Total: 2143pts



So that leaves me with 107pts to play with. If the core w/ banners rumor is true then I can just throw that into skeletons to give them commands and bump them up to 20 models a group (or 19 for 2 of them if I drop the Wight King for 2 necros). So whats everyone think based on the current rumors?

thesheriff
08-06-2010, 19:35
The 107 points i would put into giving the ghouls the same number of models, and splitting the black Knight units into 2 units of 6. You don't need 2 big cavalry units, beacsue it almost gives the opponent a choice of big unit A or less scary big unit B. I ahve a freind that has a similar theme to his list. Your entire army needs to be focused on funneling the opponent towards your bloodknights. Redirecting wolves, Sacry flamk units and clever use of terrain.

also, give one vampire red fury (extra attack for each wound) with the blood drinker, for unlimited bloodknight revival goodness!

thesheriff

Tomalock
13-06-2010, 20:19
Thanks for the comments! Thats a good thought with Red Fury! I don't think I have the points for it at 2250, but for 2500 or 3000 I will absolutly give that to my lord. That will make that unit that much scarier! I definatly see where you are comming from on the smaller units of Black Knights. I'm still not sold on the idea of small units of cav in 8th, but as a harrassing unit it does have potential.

I am finding the striking in initiative order to be troubling so I have adjusted my list a bit to ensure that I have a good chance of getting atleast one ASF spell off a turn. The newest incarnation of the list:

Characters

Vampire Lord w/ Blood Drinker, Dread Knight, The Book of Arkhan 305pts

Vampire w/ BSB Drakenhof Banner, Dread Knight 275pts

Necromancer w/ Vanhel's Danse, Corpsecart 130pts

Core

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Dire Wolves x5 40pts

Ghouls x20 w/ Ghast 168pts

Skeletons x20 w/ Standard, Champ, Musician 180pts

Skeletons x20 w/ Standard, Champ, Musician 180pts

Special

Black Knights x10 w/ Banner of Barrows 301pts

Rare

Blood Knights x9 w/ Banner of Strigos 550pts

Total: 2249

Caving in to the probability that core with some form of command involving a standard will be needed to take and hold objectives. If it turns out that isn't the case then I will probably drop the champ out of both of those units. I am debating dropping the Banner of Barrows out of the Black Knights and giving them the standard that lets them march away from vampires. I am also considering the possibility of dropping them for Grave Guard, but not ready to give up on them just yet.