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Bassik
09-05-2010, 14:26
My fellow citizens, at my local store, there is this guy, this... guy. He makes me so angry with his douchy behaviour, I just have to beat him in a game of fantasy, to end his reign of terror for once and for all. Where this a 40K game, I wouldn't be too worried, however, my fantasy skills are rusty at best, and his list is downright nasty, probably fuelled by his douchness.

He plays 500 points, and not higher (for some reason), and from what I have seen, he fields three Skink priests, three razordons, and some random skirmishers. I actually thought this list was illegal, I mean, three characters in only 500 points? But I digress.
My army is Skaven, and I can field about any nasty combo there is. But the problem is, I don't know any, always preferred to just swamp my enemy with clanrats and ratogres. This time, I need your help.
Please tell me how to defeat this guy, what list to use, what tactics to bring to the field, for you alone stand between humanity and his douchy darkness.

Novrain
09-05-2010, 14:55
warlock enginer and about 200 slaves? Could be fun to see his face

bludsturm
09-05-2010, 15:00
Yeah I would slave-spam for sure.

Gaargod
09-05-2010, 16:00
Yeah, um... he's cheating?

3 razordons = 225

3 skink priests, even naked at lv1 = 195

Min core skink skirmishers of 20 = 140

Total = 560. And that's if, as i suspect they're not, the skink priests are completely basic.


If he's using 3 characters and a rare at 500pts, he's using normal <2000pts game rules, so has to have min 2 core. If the skink priests have some gear he's probably sitting around 750pts. Personally, i think pointing out his idiocy will be more amusing. However...

I'll assume he loses a skink priest and a razordon to make his list legal and give the skinks lv2.

Now, normally i'd suggest a hellpit abomination with spikes at 500pts if you wish to break it. Gets a little awkward with the skinks though. 10 skinks, double tapping even at long range + moving due to large target, is some 20/12 wounds. The skinks will get at least 3 lots of shooting at you (move up and fire both units, then stand and shoot with 1 unit), so that's 60/12 wounds = 5. Otherwise known as hellpit abomination with problems.

So. I think giant rats might actually do you better than slaves. They're obviously more expensive but the +1Mv means he can't shoot at you without you being in range.

ooglatjama
09-05-2010, 16:04
Be cheesy and take the stormbanner and use it every turn

D'Haran
09-05-2010, 16:47
take a calculator and pull out the lizardmen book and calculate his point total after the battle. At that point labeling him a cheater would probably do more to deflate him than beating him would.

punkoteloco
09-05-2010, 17:12
No way he can field such list in 500pts. As everyone said, get the calculator after the battle ( even if you won ) and show him that he is a cheater

Tymell
09-05-2010, 17:20
Yeah, um... he's cheating?

3 razordons = 225

3 skink priests, even naked at lv1 = 195

Min core skink skirmishers of 20 = 140

Total = 560. And that's if, as i suspect they're not, the skink priests are completely basic.

Unless I've missed something, it's not quite that much: the skinks would only be 100 points for the minimum of 20, so it would total 520 points.

Thus, it is still over the limit, and even then that's assuming the units and characters have no upgrades or items. So just insist that he bring it down to 500, he'll have to rearrange his list for that.

Plus, in a couple of months having 39% of your points invested in characters may well not be legal anymore either, so there's always that ;)

Agnar the Howler
09-05-2010, 17:21
As Gaargod said, he's cheating, you cannot fit 3 skink priest and 3 razordons into a 500pts list, as you'd need 2 core choices that cost 40pts each in order to play, which lizardmen lack.

Even so, his army can't be THAT effective. His priests only have 2 spells that are offensive, so that's a 2/6 chance each that they'll get one. The latter spell needs at least 2 dice to cast too, needing a 9 to cast, meaning that they'll only succeed in casting it around 1/4 of the time. The former spell is easier to cast, but still requires 2 to effectively cast, needing a total of 6 or more, meaning that there's around a 50/50 chance they'll cast it on 2 dice, and a 16.7%(rounded up) chance they'll cast it on 1 die. I've left out the comet as an offensive spell they can cast purely because it is exceedingly unlikely to happen, needing 2 dice and irrestibile force to cast it, since level 1s can use a max of 2 dice to cast.

All the other spells are defensive, with one granting a 4+ ward save against normal and magic missiles, one giving D3 re-rolls that can be used by any model to re-roll a failed to hit/wound roll, armour or ward save, and 1 that gives the targetted unit the ability to re-roll all 1s when hitting and wounding.

The re-roll 1s spell has a range of 12", needing the priests to be up the board with his other units, the ward save has a range of 24", and all offensive spells have unlimited range. All spells bar the D3 re-rolls, re-roll 1s and comet require LoS to the target.

If you get into combat with his priests, it's game over for them. They're T2 with 2 wounds and no armour. Your main targets are the razordons (the priests can wait till later unless they're annoying you with offensive spells), but there are only 3 in a very small game. Jezzails or something similar should kill them off without much hassle, either that or throw some rat swarms at them, they're unbreakable and can take a lot of chewing through to beat down. Bearing in mind that the skinky handlers are only WS2 and T2 with no armour, so you're hitting them on 3s and killing on 4s, it shouldn't be too hard. Rat swarms would also be good against the priests, with a small swarm being easily able to kill it off in probably 1 round of combat.

The swarms can also be nice for hunting the skirmishers, having the same movement as them and being able to kill them off with a simple charge if you're lucky.

Giant rats or night/gutter runners could also be effective. All in all, you'd just need some clanrats or slaves that can draw fire. As long as you reach combat, you win, the only combat you need to be wary of is the razordon one, as the razordons are T4, WS3 with 2 attacks and 3 wounds, plus they cause fear and have a 5+ scaly skin, which is why I recommend rat swarms. At most, the razordons will be inflicting 6 wounds per combat phase, most likely only 3 or so, and should fall under a mass of attacks, just focus on 1 razordon at a time, it's no use spreading your attacks unless they're all on 1 wound, since most won't manage to wound and those that do would have probably 1 saved by scaly skin.

I also woundlt break it to him that he's using an illegal list unless you've tried everyone's advice and still not managed it, wait until you beat him down before you tell him that your legal list beat his overcosted one (don't use an abomination or cheese to do it though).

EDIT:


Unless I've missed something, it's not quite that much: the skinks would only be 100 points for the minimum of 20, so it would total 520 points.

Thus, it is still over the limit, and even then that's assuming the units and characters have no upgrades or items. So just insist that he bring it down to 500, he'll have to rearrange his list for that.

Plus, in a couple of months having 39% of your points invested in characters may well not be legal anymore either, so there's always that ;)

He said his opponent fields the 7pt skirmishers, the 5pt cohorts are ranked.

Tymell
09-05-2010, 17:44
He said his opponent fields the 7pt skirmishers, the 5pt cohorts are ranked.

Ah, I mis-read that, my bad. In which case, aye, it's well over the limit even if it's all naked.

sssk
09-05-2010, 21:10
I'm a little out of touch with skaven, but can't you still throw out super cheap characters and super cheap core units (which count for min core)?

Just beat him at his own game: 3 (tooled up) engineers, a few cheap core, maybe something hitty if you have the points.

At least your wizards have spells which will cause pain (fair enough, he could roll spells which damage things, but it's very unlikely on all of his mages).

I assume his mages cower in a forest in order to not get blown to bits. Do skaven have any weapons which don't require line of sight?

Zaustus
09-05-2010, 21:19
You could swamp him with Skavenslaves, with a list like:

Warlock Engineer
12 x 20 Skavenslaves
Total: 495

Maybe give the Engineer a Biting Blade to fill the last 5 points and get magic attacks. Even with what your foe has, he'd have a hard time dealing with 240 models in 12 units at 500 points (I'd make him stop cheating with the list before playing him, though).

You could also swarm him with Giant Rats:

Warlock Engineer
2 x 20 Skavenslaves
10 x 10 Giant Rats/1 Packmaster
Total: 475

That leaves 25 points to spend as you see fit. Again you have 12 units, and the fast Giant Rats attacking in two ranks would make a mess of Skinks.

w3rm
10-05-2010, 01:17
Warlock with Doomrocket
Bsb with stormbanner
3 units of 21 slaves with musicians
Doomwheel

so now he has barely any shooting for at least 2 turns. You can blast the skinks with the rockets and weather the magic. Then the doomwheel is upon them and he can 1 hit the razordons with lightning.

Stumpy
10-05-2010, 01:28
That army you said he's using doesn't seem particularly bad. Skink priests are awful and razordons aren't great. Heavy cavalry would eat him alive.

As for skaven... skaven are the best army in the game at that size. Even fielding a normal army you should mop the floor with him.

Orktavius
10-05-2010, 01:56
LOL I like W3rm's list....as watching a ******* opponent deal with a doomwheel at 500pts would be amusing

Roarschach
10-05-2010, 02:44
So this guy is a 500 points player only? That may be the lamest thing about him. Explain casually that 500 points is more about how good, and preferably big your stuff is, rather than how you use it. And then show him by using a doomwheel. Then, depending on his reaction to the game, tell him to shove it, or become good friends with him. GG

soots
10-05-2010, 03:31
This guy has got it over you strategically sorry.

He convinces you to blindly use 500pts vs his 560pt army. Ive never seen such great generalsmenship.

ftayl5
10-05-2010, 05:35
No no no, take a legit (legal) 500pt army, beat him, THEN expsoe his cheating=double shame for him
Or challenge him to a larger points agme and when he refuses call him a chicken and tease him, if accepts whoop is ass

Bassik
11-05-2010, 08:41
I calculated his army and... the cheating SOB!:p What a douche. Thanks for all the input everyone! W3rm's list sounds so nasty, I have to use it, but everyone had great ideas.

And yes, he never plays more then 500 points. He also claims fantasy is tactically superior to 40K. That may be, but... how the hell would he know? He only plays 500 point battles :p

sssk
11-05-2010, 08:43
Let us know when you play him again, you've piqued my interest.

Tymell
11-05-2010, 08:48
And yes, he never plays more then 500 points. He also claims fantasy is tactically superior to 40K. That may be, but... how the hell would he know? He only plays 500 point battles :p

Ha, that's a good one! As you say, how would he know? Cheating isn't a tactic (unless you're playing Blood Bowl :p)

Peregijn
11-05-2010, 09:33
i am also interested in the outcome of your next encounter with this guy.

and i thought that woodelfs where the strongest army in 500P? 2 small units of drayeds and a herow with the hail of doom arrow and fill in the rest with gladguards? although this was with the old 6th edition borderpatrol rules. (only 1 hero of max 125 points, rest of the rules elude me ad the moment)

althought they wouldn't win against the skaven horde spam i read here...

Bassik
11-05-2010, 15:10
I faced him this afternoon, with a whole warlock engineer as an incredibly cheap general, 320 slaves, a Hell Pit Abomination, and a Chieftan with the Stormbanner, bringing me in on a modest 490 points. I let him play with his list, pretended to not know he was over the points limit, and whooped his ****!
The abomination destroyed everything it touched, the storm banner made his shooting do nothing interesting, and his sneaky hiding wizards where sought after by my slaves. The engineer was just there to be the general.:evilgrin:

But the best part came after the battle, when I suddenly acted all surprised that, hey, his list isn't legal at all! He claimed it's only 60 points, what difference does it make, etc. Wat a douche. I just packed my little plastic rats and left.

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement, you made this victory all the sweeter. It's not just my victory, it's yours too!

Benzan
11-05-2010, 15:32
only 60 points.

wonder how happy he'd be if I fielded another 240 in a 2k game then, or why not make it an even 250 for a bonus HPA =D

glad you showed him..

Deathjester
11-05-2010, 15:33
But the best part came after the battle, when I suddenly acted all surprised that, hey, his list isn't legal at all! He claimed it's only 60 points, what difference does it make, etc. Wat a douche. I just packed my little plastic rats and left.

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement, you made this victory all the sweeter. It's not just my victory, it's yours too!

60pts?

That's if his Skinks are Lvl 1's not level 2's and have no magic items (which i doubt) which means you're looking at an EXTRA 85pts / priest (ish) for that putting him at around 800pts......

and claiming it's 500pts.... what a tool.

On the other hand i'm glad you beat him with an army which is within the rules.

At 750 / 800pts which is what he's playing his army is pretty bad! I mean seriously imagine if you'd had an extra warlock and an extra unit of clan rats to play with Warp Energy Condenser and dispel scrolls....

Pfft, i hate cheaters.

sssk
11-05-2010, 20:55
now just wait to see if he comes back with a new army list, or just gives up because "it's not fun if you don't win"

soots
12-05-2010, 08:30
Only an extra 12% lol

Id hate to play him in a 2500pt game. Guy rocks up with 2800pts.

hawo0313
12-05-2010, 08:52
lol great thread like to see the guy someone complains about get whats coming to him.

And now we play the waiting game. :D

Peregijn
12-05-2010, 10:42
nicly done and justice is serfed

Tymell
12-05-2010, 10:53
But the best part came after the battle, when I suddenly acted all surprised that, hey, his list isn't legal at all! He claimed it's only 60 points, what difference does it make, etc. Wat a douche. I just packed my little plastic rats and left.

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement, you made this victory all the sweeter. It's not just my victory, it's yours too!

Nicely done Bassik, it must have been very satisfying to hand the cheater's rear end to him :D

Honestly, "only 60 points"? Why hide it from your opponent if it's "only" so little that it doesn't matter? ;)

Roarschach
12-05-2010, 11:21
I calculated his army and... the cheating SOB!:p What a douche. Thanks for all the input everyone! W3rm's list sounds so nasty, I have to use it, but everyone had great ideas.

And yes, he never plays more then 500 points. He also claims fantasy is tactically superior to 40K. That may be, but... how the hell would he know? He only plays 500 point battles :p

Well he's right, it kind of is. But he only plays 500 point battles, using 3-4 units, so I don't know how he can claim his battles are tactical at all. Tell him to go get drunk and play counter-strike. He'll think he's the most tactical dude ever, and probably won't show up to bother you anymore.

StormCrow
12-05-2010, 11:31
Just read the whole thread, this has to be my feel good story for the week. Well done man!

As an aside; i would HATE to face a hell pit abomination at 500 points. I hate facing them at 2250!

Mullitron
12-05-2010, 11:32
This thread has made my day :) . Congratz on your victory, i would love to of seen the look on your opponents face when you deployed all that in a 500 point game and wiped the floor with him.

The Blue Guy
12-05-2010, 12:29
LOVED this thread!

Only 60 points...:rolleyes:

Tymell
12-05-2010, 13:07
You know, I'd love to see this thread appear on here:

Help me beat this guy!

"In a complete cheese-fest, this guy I played used a Hell Pit Abomination against me...in a 500 point game!! :mad: My poor Lizzie army was slaughtered (more proof that Skaven are totally broken) against this super-cheesy, unfair army! How can I beat him? :cries:"

;)

Wade Wilson
12-05-2010, 13:16
I took a wee peak at this thread the other day and i am very very happy you beat him.

If he is unhappy about how things turned out why not allow him a rematch...but be sure to add to your army so you meet his 'point limit' and add an extra 60 points of skaven slaves. :evilgrin:

GuyLeCheval
12-05-2010, 13:31
I faced him this afternoon, with a whole warlock engineer as an incredibly cheap general, 320 slaves, a Hell Pit Abomination, and a Chieftan with the Stormbanner, bringing me in on a modest 490 points. I let him play with his list, pretended to not know he was over the points limit, and whooped his ****!
The abomination destroyed everything it touched, the storm banner made his shooting do nothing interesting, and his sneaky hiding wizards where sought after by my slaves. The engineer was just there to be the general.:evilgrin:

But the best part came after the battle, when I suddenly acted all surprised that, hey, his list isn't legal at all! He claimed it's only 60 points, what difference does it make, etc. Wat a douche. I just packed my little plastic rats and left.

Thanks everyone for your input and encouragement, you made this victory all the sweeter. It's not just my victory, it's yours too!

Zing...

I was gonna suggest this but you had already played the battle. Nicely done! Next time he uses a list, ask warseer guys to calculate the points value and meet him with equal points (and as many HPA's as you can get)

Note you shouldn't do this everythime. HPAs are mean.