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Scott767
09-05-2010, 19:12
Hi, just starting a new empire army and am really interested in the detachment system, however i feel that its something you have to get right when buying or assembling models.

Firstly, whats the best unit (out of spearmen, swords and halbdiers) to use as the main block? personally i would prefer to use halbs or swords.

Secondly, whats the best ranged detachment for screening? are archers the best because of their firing on the move? should hangunners or crossbowmen only be used as detachments in stand still type armies?

As for the main hand to hand detachment, i believe the consensus of opinion is on halbdiers or free company?

I dont have a lot of money so building large amounts of different units for situational uses, is not an option im afraid.

OH and finally i am concious that the new rules are comming out soon - could these have a massive effect on my choices, should i wait until july?

Arkfatalis
09-05-2010, 20:01
Wait until the new rules come out as what's good and what's not might all change.

ftayl5
10-05-2010, 06:43
well I don't think the new rules should affect teh detachment system and stuff too badly.

Generaly, sworrdsmen are the best state troop, better WS, I and 4+ save. WIth the 'stike on initiative' (rumoured) rule in 8th ed, this could place them even higher up the chain 'o awesomeness.

Archers are the best screen -skirmish means -1 to hit, + they can move and fire. I believe handgunners are good detachments for your infantry, croosbowmen are better in actual units.

Spearmen are ok, halberdiers are seen to suck, except as detcahments for other units, for a S4 punch. SOme people have argued, however, that they are no good for aiding swordsmen as they provide easy kills (only 6+ save)

Free company are good, but easy to kill

General combinations are

Halberdier detachments for Spears (S4 punch added to many attacks)
Free company detachments for Halbediers (many attacks added to S4 punch)
Swordsmen detcahments for swordsmen (just for the flank bonus without providing easy kills)
Spears are useless as detachments
Archers are the best screen
Handgunners and Xbows should only be taken as detachments if your unit does not intend to move more than 3"

Hope this helps

danny-d-b
10-05-2010, 07:55
as said the best use I've found is to have a big block of infantry- most of the time swordmen supported by 10 archers spered out infront of your block and detachment with the detachement next to the block (also mostly swordmen) in a 3x3 formation- rember your not wanting to claim a rank bonus for the detachement, and also you can make it so that its impossible for a unit to charge the detachement if you block your infantry tight enough together and deploy your detachment 1/2 an inch back from the front of your block

why by 3x3 you may ask, well it gives you the smallest frontage which means your taking the least amount of attacks (as your unlikely to kill anything better than goblins with empire core inf at the moment) with out having a crazy large flank, and still having a decent amount of numbers

Frosty_TK
10-05-2010, 14:47
From long experience fielding empire forces, I agree that the swordsman are the best choice for a main regiment. Simply because they have the highest survivability. Something neither Spears (more attacks, still don't kill a thing) nor halberdiers (dead as soon as charged) can make up for.
As detachments, the free company bring the best results. Statistically, they achieve more than any halberdiers, no matter how tough the enemy is. Spearmen perform a defensive roll, which is seldom used for detachments.I admit though, that another group of Swordsmen will just be as effective to negate the enemys' rank bonus and keep it that way.

As for ranged combat units, musketeers will seldom be in range for support fire as combat ensues. Take some Archers if you like. Though another close combat unit might be more effectiv, because one is easily dealt with by your opponent.

Finally: You can't do much wrong with swordmen. But nontheless, waiting for the next edition for more details is advised.

Scott767
10-05-2010, 16:41
thanks guys - all very usefull. im still kind if torn; im not 100% keen on having all swordsmen. how about this as an example of state troops to take in a 1000 pt army:

20 swordsmen
Detachment 9 swordsmen + 5 archers

20 Halbdiers
Detachment 9 free company + 5 archers?

Ozorik
10-05-2010, 16:57
Bump up the main units, a unit of 20 only needs 1 casualty to lose a rank bonus. Aside from that that looks decent enough, I would have more archers but its up to you really.

ftayl5
11-05-2010, 09:29
25 is the best size.
Swordsmen are the best, but for fluffs sake, lots of people take halberdiers as all the books and stuff say Karl Franz requires each province to have a standing army of halberdiers.

So make those units 25 strong and they're good

Frosty_TK
11-05-2010, 10:37
Fluff wise, you can go with that. Fluff wise you can go with anything. Actually I often go by fluff myself. BUT, and that's a capital BUT:
Take spears, not halberdiers. I have enough state troops to field a main regiment or two of each spears, halberdiers and swordsman. While I do field spears and swordsman as main units, halberdiers are reduced to support roles. It's been ages since I did give 'em a chance.

So:
Take 25 men strong units of swords and spears
keep the detachments as you suggested, but field the free company five men wide to maximize on attacks.

And finally: If you like the halberdiers just for looks or fluff, take 'em anyhow ^^