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Phenatix
10-05-2010, 05:22
I know it's not super fluffy but I wanted to include Blood Knights as I love their fluff and models.

Vampire Lord @ 395
-red fury, dread knight, infinite hatred, book of arkhan, blooddrinker, cadaverous cuirass

Wright King @ 257
- BSB Drakenhoff banner. Skeletal steed with barding, lance

3 x Vampire Hero @ 140
-dread knight, lord of dead

7 x Dire Wolf @ 56

7 x Dire Wolf @ 56

10 x Skeleton Warrior @ 100
-full cmd

10 x Skeleton Warrior @ 100
-full cmd

10 x Skeleton Warrior @ 100
-full cmd

5 x Blood Knight @ 400
-full cmd, banner of blood keep

5 x Blood Knight @ 360
-full cmd, banner of strogis

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the blood keep goes with vamp lord. the strogis goes with wright king. If I'm taking too much much fire I can move the bsb over to the vamps's unit to sharethe regen save. Each hero level vamp willbe with a unit of skeletons, to raise them up and charge into combat ahead if necessary. The dire wolfs screen/prevent frenzy baiting forthe BK units

2244 points, please help, I'd like a formidable army based with some BKs

Ovassilias
10-05-2010, 09:20
what points game are u after? 2250?

anyway, u dont need musician and champion with your blood knights.
musician is there to make u win combats if its a draw...if u cant win combats with blood knights something went wrong.
champion is not worth it unless u plan to give him a magic item.Again not worth it, he also needs to issue challenges all the time which is not really handy.

if u remove these u have 60 points extra. I suggest the following.
Remove the wight king and replace him with a vamp, u need someone with that unit to help u raise lost models.
Make your foot vampires level 2, they dont need to be dread knights and it will help them to raise skellies faster.

Gaargod
10-05-2010, 13:31
You have 5 character choices.

Cavalry VC armies are not meant to be raising stuff as they go. If you take min-sized skely units, they will stay min-sized. After you lose a hero choice, probably make the other 2 into combat vamps and run them with the BK - you infantry will do nothing all game.

As Ovassilias says, you just need a standard on blood knights - not really worth naything else.

Phenatix
11-05-2010, 02:36
Oh whoops I didn't even realize I had too many characters. I'll probably drop the Wright King now, let me rewrite some revisions with your 2 posts in mind.

EDIT: Ok so now I'm thinking...

Vampire Lord @ 395 pts
-Red Fury, Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred, Cadaverous Cuirass, Book of Arkhan, Blooddrinker

2 x Vampire @ 150 pts
-Dread Knight, Supernatural Horror

Vampire @ 150 pts
-Dread Knight, Ghoulkin

7 x Dire Wolf @ 56 pts

7 x Dire Wolf @ 56 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

5 x Black Knight @ 205
-Barding, Full CMD, Warbanner

5 x Black Knight @ 148
-Barding, Musician

5 x Blood Knight @ 370
-Banner of Blood Keep

5 x Blood Knight @ 330
-Banner of Strogis

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Ok so the ghoulkin vamp goes with the Strogis banner Blood Knights, and the Lord goes with the Blood Keep banner. Then the Supernatural Horror Vampires each go with a Black Knight unit to Terror bomb the enemy. Would it perhaps be better to take a Wright king instead of one vamp so they keep their etheral movement and give him the terror sword? It'd free up points for more cmd models for the second Black Knight unit.

Ovassilias
11-05-2010, 09:27
2 x Vampire @ 150 pts
-Dread Knight, Supernatural Horror

why? Terror is not gonna help u in anything, so many units immune and with good Ld. If u have terror its ok, but paying 25pts its not worth it.

Since u r going for combat/knight theme its better to give them hatred and help your units to make some wounds.

Now, joining these 2 with black knights u loose a great bonus they have, the ethereal movement.

I still think u better off to make these two vamps lvl2 with the appropriate power to raise models. Since u changed it to ghouls with ghoulkin its deffinatelly a better choise to have more numbers.

also i think your obsession with command models and barding on black knights is not gonna help them. They would be better off with a single banner and M8 and 2 more dire wolves units to screen them.

have a go and try the list, but imo black knights with ethereal movement are better off having 16" charge and a dire wolf screen.

Phenatix
12-05-2010, 04:04
Well in truth I had considered Infinit Hatered on the Black Knight vampires, and because it's the same number of points (and no physical representation for either power) I figured I could try both ways and see whatever I liked better.

I also liked the idea of maybe running Wright Kings with the Black Knights, to keep them etheral moving and still give them a stronger punch. Maybe if I kept them staggered with the Blood Knights they wouldn't need Vampires of their own to keep marching... I'll look at changing the 2 vamps currently with Black Knights to Dark Acolyte + Summon Ghouls, but I really wanted to avoid the stigma that goes with VC of only spamming IoN all the time and wanted to focus more on combat as you said

EDIT: one problem I have with using Dire Wolf screens instead of barding is that it costs twice as many points to have a minimum sized screen (and it seems people take 6-7 usually) and if you expect them to just die anyways... I mean I'd rather have the better save and move 2" less, especially if I'm ignoring terrain.

Ovassilias
12-05-2010, 10:09
Well in truth I had considered Infinit Hatered on the Black Knight vampires, and because it's the same number of points (and no physical representation for either power) I figured I could try both ways and see whatever I liked better.

deffinatelly play around with vamp powers in your lists to find whats better for your style.



I also liked the idea of maybe running Wright Kings with the Black Knights, to keep them etheral moving and still give them a stronger punch. Maybe if I kept them staggered with the Blood Knights they wouldn't need Vampires of their own to keep marching... I'll look at changing the 2 vamps currently with Black Knights to Dark Acolyte + Summon Ghouls, but I really wanted to avoid the stigma that goes with VC of only spamming IoN all the time and wanted to focus more on combat as you said


here is the problem, VC need IoN to play, thats their game style and what makes them different. You dont need to spam it with 14+ PD nor rely on your hordes and fear/outnumber combo.
With that said anything from 7 to 10 PD is a decent number of power dice to help u heal your crumbling army. You will see in your games that besides vampires, blood knights and varghulf the rest have low stats and little to no save, this means that u will get killed,loose combats and loose more models from crumbling, a decent CC unit can wipe out undead is 2 rounds easylly if its not big enough.
big enough for core is: ghouls 15-20 cause they have good toughness, skellies 20-25 if u plan to get them in the fight, dire wolves 7+ to have 2-3 left that can threat a war machine, zombies 30+ if u r going to bog down anything for more then 1 turn.
all of the above is for unsupported units.




EDIT: one problem I have with using Dire Wolf screens instead of barding is that it costs twice as many points to have a minimum sized screen (and it seems people take 6-7 usually) and if you expect them to just die anyways... I mean I'd rather have the better save and move 2" less, especially if I'm ignoring terrain.

well the extra save vs extra movement is debatable, but imo a black knight unit that can charge almost anything from 2nd turn makes your opponent to think twice what to shoot/magic and avoid, especially when he sees 2x blood coming next round.

dire wolves are a multipurpose unit.
1)Shooting screen if u dont have first turn and enough terrain to hide your all your knights. 2+sv for 5 models can mean easy kill for some shooting lists.
2)Flank charges to negate ranks, beeing fast cav and 7 in number they can do that very well.
3) war machine hunting if they get ignored and extra threat to charge from second turn.
4) suiside charge to cause fear in 10 man units (7 have US14, if the unit looses fear they flee and with M9 u can probably destroy them as well)
5) very cheap, core and they come in a 10man box:D

all of that for 8pts.....:rolleyes:

i guess u need to play some games and see what works for u best.

my generic advise when making your VC lists is never have less then 7PD and always carry the book, your vamps must be dedicated to what they do (either combat or casting), have enough units that can threat from round 2 (4 units are a decent number), decide what your army wants to do and built around that (combat/raise/horde etc) VC can do this easy as long as u dont get carried away and paying things u wont need (extra vamp powers/magic banners-items/barding etc).

and finally always remember that every army has cheese in it, dont worry with what they tell u :D

Phenatix
12-05-2010, 12:29
Hmm, that makes more sense now. I guess the Dire Wolves are probably worth more than the barding, and if I move the Black Knight vampires to be casters I'd have...

Vampire Lord @ 395 pts
-Red Fury, Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred, Cadaverous Cuirass, Book of Arkhan, Blooddrinker

Vampire @ 150 pts
-Dread Knight, Ghoulkin

Vampire @ 145 pts
-Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls

Vampire @ 145 pts
-Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls

5 x Dire Wolf @ 40 pts

5 x Dire Wolf @ 40 pts

6 x Dire Wolf @ 48 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

10 x Crypt Ghoul @ 80 pts

5 x Black Knight @ 181
-Banner of the Barrows

5 x Black Knight @ 161
-Standard of Hellish Vigour

5 x Blood Knight @ 370
-The Flag of Blood Keep

5 x Blood Knight @ 330
-Royal Standard of Strogis
___

The casters each go with a unit of Ghouls, probably with the non-caster unit between them, to keep it marching. The Hellish Vigour Black Knights could go and be a flanking unit with the 6-man Dire Wolves to screen/support if they live. The Banner of Barrows ones would stick with the 2 Blood Knight units and probably reach combat the turn before them. Will the Dire Wolves still be effective screens to prevent baiting with only 5 models?

Actually, if I took Warbanner instead of Barrows I could then make the Dire Wolves 2 units of 6 and one of 7. Idk, 45 pts on a 5 man unit seems like a lot..