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Selsaral
25-05-2005, 16:39
A ratling gun misfired and murdered an entire unit of skaven. This will or will not cause panic tests in the affected skaven units?

Morskittar
25-05-2005, 18:00
A ratling gun misfired and murdered an entire unit of skaven. This will or will not cause panic tests in the affected skaven units?

It will, as long as 25% casualties are caused in the Skaven shooting phase.

Avian
25-05-2005, 18:00
Unless you and your opponent agree to a house rule, it does not. Only enemy firing causes Panic, IIRC*. I guess the skaven are used to such occurences...



* it may be stated in the Skaven book that it can cause Panic, in which case I am wrong

Selsaral
25-05-2005, 18:32
Yeah I suspected that the "destroyed within 4 inches by shooting or spells" panic condition had the wording "destroyed by ENEMY shooting or spells", but my rulebook is at my friend's house and I cannot confirm it.

Is this what you meant, Avian?

samael
25-05-2005, 19:11
Q. When a unit sustains 25% or more casualties from friendly fire
(e.g. mortar scattering, Skaven Life is Cheap fire) does the unit have
to take a Panic check at the end of the phase?

A. That would come under 'voluntary tests'. By the strict letter of
the rules, only casualties in the enemy magic and shooting phases
apply. However, as well known, friendly fire isn't friendly at all,
and I would probably take a panic test if one of my units suffered
self-inflicted casualties in this way.
S. Gav Thorpe - Warhammer Design Team



Taken from our friendly neighbourhood direwolf site

Morskittar
25-05-2005, 19:12
Hmm. That's good to know.

I'll most likely continue rolling for it.

Selsaral
25-05-2005, 19:44
Thanks a ton for helping guys.

So Gav's official ruling is NO, the skaven wouldn't take a panic test, unless a house rule was agreed upon that altered this, and Gav himself would argue that a house rule was proper. But otherwise no.

skavenguy13
25-05-2005, 21:29
Just so you know (also in a FAQ) if the unit gets 25% casualties from ITSELF (as in jezzails' misfires and globadiers) they don't panic either.

Avian
26-05-2005, 09:35
I can somewhat see both sides of the issue here. I have faced players who thought that a warmachine that destroys itself due to a Misfire should cause Panic in nearby units. I don't agree with that.
However, I do think that a unit causing casualties in other friendly units should be able to cause a panic test.

MarcoPollo
26-05-2005, 16:26
What about a single model with multiple wounds taking more than 25% wounds. Would a giant that has 6 wounds and takes 2 wounds from gunfire have to panic. I would think not as these wounds aren't causalties.

But then I start thinking about a stegadon with 6 skinks. Would the stegadon have to panic if 4 (or 3) skinks were killed from gunfire? What technically would consitute a casuality?

Selsaral
26-05-2005, 19:16
My understanding of panic (not having my rulebook beside me) is that it's entirely based off the number of models killed. So yeah, it does sound like a stegadon could be easily caused to make a panic test if enough of his skink crew were killed.

flain
27-05-2005, 12:17
were it not that the stegadon is immune to panic (big stupid bloodthirsty beast is NOT going to run away when 2 of his annoying riders are gone :p )

But indeed you do not count the wounds. Say a unit of 4 ogres already got 2 wounds, got another wound from shooting (thus killing an ogre) then you have to take a panic test as 1 from the 4 ogres is dead now.

Major Defense
27-05-2005, 21:02
The Q&A says that it is a voluntary test. Just because Skaven don't take tests when a weapons team explodes DOES NOT mean that you can use the "because I'm Skaven" excuse when your opponent is trying to argue that you should take the voluntary test when the weapons team kills 25% of a friendly unit.

That's just my take. Someone else might argue that the voluntary tests are at the controlling player's decision. As for the Stegadon, it's a voluntary test and in that case it does not make sense for the monster to flee when a Skink it can't even see gets shot.

Warlord Gnashgrod
28-05-2005, 05:30
Well, I've always played that a panic check is necessary. It seems to be good sportsmanship.

Avian
28-05-2005, 10:37
That's just my take. Someone else might argue that the voluntary tests are at the controlling player's decision. As for the Stegadon, it's a voluntary test and in that case it does not make sense for the monster to flee when a Skink it can't even see gets shot.
If someone is pestering you to take the test, it's not exactly voluntary, is it?
If someone tells me I have to join the army, I'm not volunteering, am I?


Stegadons are immune to Panic, by the way. :p