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Droneman
13-05-2010, 19:35
Hello fellow wargamers ! I have a few questions regarding orcs and goblin fanatics!

first question: how do u calculate the VP's for fanatics? does those fanatics that are still spinning around the battlefield at the end of turn 6 count as "slain" or conserved points?

second question: do frenzied troops have to charge fanatics if they are the only avalible charge for them?

Third question : what if this is the scenario.
Q= chaos knights ( frenzied )
Y= night goblins
X = fanatic


QQQQQ- 5x frenzied chaos knights with no screen unit and clear LOS

X Fanatic in the way between the knights and the nightgobbs

YYYYY - regiment of nightgoblins


do the frenzied knights have to charge through the fanatic, taking 2d6 str 5 hits and into the nightgobbos?

thank you very much for answers :)

TMATK
13-05-2010, 19:39
No, No, Yes.

If you need a reference, I think the O&G faq has it.

Droneman
13-05-2010, 19:42
thanks for the quick reply !
just one note...do you mean that fanatic counts as dead or not ? cant really tell

TMATK
13-05-2010, 19:42
You never count VPs for dead fanatics.

FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470845_Orcs_and_Goblins_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

The no-charge fanatics rule is in the army book.

rtunian
13-05-2010, 19:48
for the third question, according to the representation in op...

the knights can pivot first and charge the night goblins at an angle. once they are in contact they then maximize (essentially dodging the fanatic). if the knights can't clear the fanatic by pivoting, or if they have already pivoted once during the charge, then they must go through it.

also, if there is enough room for the knights to clear the fanatic and rank up against the regiment, then they do not trigger the "death throws" additional d6 hits. passing through a fanatic is d6 s5's, you only take a 2nd d6 s5's if your move ends on top of the fanatic.

the victory points for a fanatic are only awarded when the containing unit is destroyed, and are awarded regardless of the fate of the fanatic. ie, they are not awarded for killing the fanatic. a 67 point night goblin unit with a 25 point fanatic becomes a 92 point unit when it's destroyed, whether or not the fanatic is alive or dead.

TMATK
13-05-2010, 19:52
@rtunian - Aren't the knights obligated to maximize regardless of the fanatic? ie They can't wheel to avoid him, if it means less models come into contact.

Urgat
13-05-2010, 21:07
for the third question, according to the representation in op...

the knights can pivot first and charge the night goblins at an angle. once they are in contact they then maximize (essentially dodging the fanatic). if the knights can't clear the fanatic by pivoting, or if they have already pivoted once during the charge, then they must go through it.

Nah, you must have the maximum number of troops contacting during the charge, and since nothing prevents the knights from going through the fanatics, they have to go through, regarless of if the chaos player wants or not. That being said, unless they land on top of the fanatic (let's say that the fanatic is less than 2" from the gobs), there's no reason why they should take 2D6 hits, it's 1D6.

Droneman
13-05-2010, 21:19
thanks alot for all the help :)

sssk
13-05-2010, 21:43
Just a quick bit on whether the fanatic counts as dead or not. The fanatic counts as part of the unit's cost. Therefore if the fanatic dies and the unit doesn't, you don't get his points. If the unit dies and the fanatic doesn't, you do get his points.

To make that more simple terminology, a fanatic is an upgrade for the unit (like a champion), whether he lives or dies makes no difference in victory points, the unit is all that matters.

TMATK
13-05-2010, 21:48
Just a quick bit on whether the fanatic counts as dead or not. The fanatic counts as part of the unit's cost. Therefore if the fanatic dies and the unit doesn't, you don't get his points. If the unit dies and the fanatic doesn't, you do get his points.

...

How do you figure that? The faq says fantatics are never counted for VPs.

sssk
13-05-2010, 22:08
So if I have a 2000 point army, made of a single night goblin big boss, and 14, 20 man goblin units with 3 fanatics in each, the opponent can only get 870 victory points from my troops (the 14 units of goblins and the big boss)? Therefore meaning that there are 1050 points worth of fanatics roaming about the place which mean absolutely nothing to the victory points?

Possibly more importantly in this situation, that's 42 fanatics....gives me an idea for an army....or maybe not

EDIT: see the posts below, they blow your point out of the water significantly more efficiently than my "logic" argument (often hazardous, as logic often seems to fall on deaf ears)

ColShaw
13-05-2010, 22:11
How do you figure that? The faq says fantatics are never counted for VPs.

Specifically, here's what the FAQ says:

"Q. Do Fanatics count when working out if their unit is below half strength for assigning victory points?"
A. No, Fanatics are never counted and never assign any victory points on their own(emphasis mine). Only count the number of Night Goblins in the unit. The points cost of the Fanatics is added to the cost of the unit, in the same way as other upgrades (like a musician, for example)(emphasis mine again)."

So Fanatics count their points as part of the unit's points. QED.

Agnar the Howler
13-05-2010, 22:11
How do you figure that? The faq says fantatics are never counted for VPs.

No, it says that they don't give any VPs if they alone are killed. Fanatics add to the cost of a Night Goblin unit, so whilst they aren't worth VPs on their own, because the cost is added to the unit, if the unit dies then their cost is included as VPs.

TMATK
13-05-2010, 22:17
Just a quick bit on whether the fanatic counts as dead or not. The fanatic counts as part of the unit's cost. Therefore if the fanatic dies and the unit doesn't, you don't get his points. If the unit dies and the fanatic doesn't, you do get his points.

To make that more simple terminology, a fanatic is an upgrade for the unit (like a champion), whether he lives or dies makes no difference in victory points, the unit is all that matters.


Specifically, here's what the FAQ says:

"Q. Do Fanatics count when working out if their unit is below half strength for assigning victory points?"
A. No, Fanatics are never counted and never assign any victory points on their own(emphasis mine). Only count the number of Night Goblins in the unit. The points cost of the Fanatics is added to the cost of the unit, in the same way as other upgrades (like a musician, for example)(emphasis mine again)."

So Fanatics count their points as part of the unit's points. QED.


No, it says that they don't give any VPs if they alone are killed. Fanatics add to the cost of a Night Goblin unit, so whilst they aren't worth VPs on their own, because the cost is added to the unit, if the unit dies then their cost is included as VPs.

Ah I see you guys are correct. Not the first time I've misread a rule in a GW published document. (I'm sure it won't be the last :) )

sssk
13-05-2010, 22:26
Ah I see you guys are correct. Not the first time I've misread a rule in a GW published document. (I'm sure it won't be the last :) )

It happens to us all. I recall one time when using the new deamon army book just after it had been released, I used a unit of horrors to cast the spell which hits every unit within 12" withe D6 strength D6 hits....except for some reason I read it as D6 strength 6 hits. Suffice to say I smashed loads of things apart, then realised the actual rule, and had to replace all the casualties and do it all again (I don't think my opponent was too amused).

I'll also take this opportunity to apologise. I jumped on you a bit quickly (and rather hard) there. Sorry about that. No hard feelings

Malorian
13-05-2010, 22:26
Yup, so keep that night goblin unit save... it can be worth a lot of points...

rtunian
13-05-2010, 22:44
Nah, you must have the maximum number of troops contacting during the charge

you're right. upon inspection, you do have to endeavour to maximize during the charge move, and not just maximize after you make contact, as i was thinking.



when a unit charges an enemy, the player must endeavour to bring the maximum number of models from both sides into combat