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Brimweave
16-05-2010, 09:37
Just got the new GW newsletter:



In August, the immortal legions of the Ruinous Powers - the Chaos Daemons - will pour forth once more from the Realm of Chaos to drown the Warhammer world and the galaxy of the 41st Millennium beneath a tide of blood and destruction. Even now, mystics are assailed by nightmarish visions of horror and death, the fractured minds of madmen echo with sibilant whispers, and the doomed clutch symbols of their weak gods closer to them.

A host of incredible new Citadel miniatures for both Warhammer 40,000 Chaos Daemons armies and Warhammer Daemons of Chaos armies will soon be released upon mortal battlefields. All will be revealed in July here on the Games Workshop website and in August's issue of White Dwarf magazine, so keep an eye out for more information.


Doesn't seem to indicated a new codex release, just new models.

minionboy
16-05-2010, 09:40
Am I the only one that thinks we just received last years memo?

Nothing new in any of the pics, vague information at best in the email.

O&G'sRule
16-05-2010, 09:42
Yeah, well theyre not going to reveal anything til august as it says

Grimstonefire
16-05-2010, 09:45
About damn time. Sheesh.

I think it was

Plastic DP
Plastic seekers
Scribes
Changeling
More metal heralds.

minionboy
16-05-2010, 10:23
About damn time. Sheesh.

I think it was

Plastic DP
Plastic seekers
Scribes
Changeling
More metal heralds.

No plastic plaguebearers/horrors?

Ultimate Life Form
16-05-2010, 10:26
Yeah, well theyre not going to reveal anything til august as it says

But we have certain helpful people here that might ;)

Sharkboy
16-05-2010, 10:26
Isn't it high time there was some plastic plaguebearers?

Grimstonefire
16-05-2010, 10:32
Yes. From what I remember, horrors and PB are not happening any time soon. I think someone said plastic screamers are in the very early stages, so that could be a couple of years away.

Acheldama82
16-05-2010, 10:32
Cheer ... Old photo and DEMONS thank you Gw ... I get my " vital" plastic River Troll and Boarz ... Still get 3/4 of the army whit amazing 80' style metall model, but thank you gods cause DEMON will get new model ...

Isha
16-05-2010, 10:37
Am I the only one that thinks we just received last years memo?

I think that as well

ascendedjesse
16-05-2010, 10:59
Yeah, well theyre not going to reveal anything til august as it says

August White Dwarf it said.

Which would mean July in print and website- which it also mentions.

Chadjabdoul
16-05-2010, 10:59
No plastic plaguebearers/horrors?

There is no info on them, but to be honest I would be surprised if they didn't show up.

Arbedark
16-05-2010, 10:59
Yes. From what I remember, horrors and PB are not happening any time soon. I think someone said plastic screamers are in the very early stages, so that could be a couple of years away.

Hastings says they are:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4659989&postcount=28

anselminus
16-05-2010, 11:24
i thnik platic horror but i don't think plastic plaguebearers because plaguebearers standard bearer was not old

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 11:35
About damn time. Sheesh.

I think it was

Plastic DP
Plastic seekers
Scribes
Changeling
More metal heralds.

I think this is right. Seekers and DP for definite, definitely heard rumblings about the metals listed, but no confirmations. Note in previous rumours I posted I said there was a splash release in November, and this is what I was refering to, so since this is early, there may very well be an army book this year. Spiney will be pleased.

selone
16-05-2010, 12:47
Actually new stuff, whee :) Hmm wait it's demons :(

Spiney Norman
16-05-2010, 14:42
I think this is right. Seekers and DP for definite, definitely heard rumblings about the metals listed, but no confirmations. Note in previous rumours I posted I said there was a splash release in November, and this is what I was refering to, so since this is early, there may very well be an army book this year. Spiney will be pleased.

Pleased? I'd be stunned, shaken and immobilised (well, I would if it was TK).

But seriously, there's a rumoured HE wave before the end of the year, or have we abandoned that idea?

plantagenet
16-05-2010, 14:55
yawn...

Hell if you are goign to spam me at least put somethign new into it for me to see.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 14:57
yawn...

Hell if you are goign to spam me at least put somethign new into it for me to see.

Yes because when you sign up for a newsletter, they are SPAM'ing you...

shin'keiro
16-05-2010, 15:07
Pics of the Plastic Daemon Prince that have been around since 2008!

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 16:36
The seekers are also there in the Daemon wave round-up in the sub-forum.

plantagenet
16-05-2010, 16:45
As you pointed out I signed up for a news letter two pictures from when the army book was first released and a line of text doesnt really count.

However my point was to suggest if they are going to send out emails they should try and put some real content back in them they have been thin at best recently.

Seriously you need to lighten up you are taking your hobby way too seriously if this comment and the many others I have seen you make are anything to go by.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 16:55
Oh yes, because telling you that a newsletter you asked for isn't SPAM is taking the hobby too seriously...what have the mechanics of email got to do with the hobby? Whether you were joking or not in the initial post, it is hard to tell with the current levels of moan throughout Whineseer.

Urgat
16-05-2010, 16:59
As you pointed out I signed up for a news letter two pictures from when the army book was first released and a line of text doesnt really count.

Does giving you the news that demon models are going to be released doesn't really count in regard to being a newsletter, though?


The seekers are also there in the Daemon wave round-up in the sub-forum.

Yeah. Why didn't they break THAT mould? :p

Ultimate Life Form
16-05-2010, 17:00
To be honest GW's recent 'news' bear some semblance to spam.

'We will release something soon but we're not gonna tell you what it is, ner ner ner'.

Such posts would be deleted on WarSeer.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 17:24
To be honest GW's recent 'news' bear some semblance to spam.

'We will release something soon but we're not gonna tell you what it is, ner ner ner'.

Such posts would be deleted on WarSeer.

It is all marketing though. My simple beef is that if people don't like getting such emails they can just unsubscribe instead of whining about it (not implying that you are one these people ULF).

Ultimate Life Form
16-05-2010, 17:25
No, I'm certainly not. I know why I never subscribed in the first place. :p

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 17:31
'Cause you're one of the smart ones, unlike me :p

Grimstonefire
16-05-2010, 18:11
I hear metal Horrors command will be released as well. That kills any hope of them in plastic for a while imo. Stores will start pulling them in the near future if this is the case, to be repackaged with a price increase probably.

plantagenet
16-05-2010, 18:15
They actually used to give a lot more information and pictures than they do now. Today they aernt nearly as informative as they used to be.

Yes there is some news that Demons are being released in July. But thats it. Just seems incredibly weak to me and at odds with a supposed build up fro 8th edition. Surely they should building our interest for that, leaking images and info to build up to a release that is instrumental for the year rather than a monthly splash release.

Anyway sorry to derail the thread, was not my intention. Yippee something Demon shaped is arriving in July :p

Schelle
16-05-2010, 18:17
If plastic horrors are being released then I will get me a bucket load.

My source told me something about plastic plague bearers, but I posted this before on Warseer and most came back saying that they are going to be released, but not any time soon.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 18:29
I hear metal Horrors command will be released as well. That kills any hope of them in plastic for a while imo. Stores will start pulling them in the near future if this is the case, to be repackaged with a price increase probably.

Sounds more plausible than a third plastic kit.

Sarevok
16-05-2010, 19:46
Its about time. Daemons get less plastics than any other army.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 19:47
Yea but more power, so it evens out.

Quetzl
16-05-2010, 20:01
This sounds really interesting, gonna be good to see the plastic Daemon Prince in person finally after seeing it in the WoC book a year and a half ago! I remember seeing some resin Seekers at Games Day so hopefully they'll be out with a load of other Gubbinz :D

I reacon we'll see the Horrors in plastic, I mean GW are releasing this for both systems so it's kind of a no brainer.

Chadjabdoul
16-05-2010, 20:06
I hear metal Horrors command will be released as well. That kills any hope of them in plastic for a while imo. Stores will start pulling them in the near future if this is the case, to be repackaged with a price increase probably.

If you look at the 40k thread with the same name, you'll see Hastings confirming the existence of plastic horrors. He also says that they don't look much like the current metal ones. (both posts on page 2)

There is a number of people saying this wave was a surprise for them (in the 40k thread). However Harry had mentioned demons coming in August in one of the fantasy rumor threads (i think it was the fantasy 8th ed. in July thread).

He also mentioned a significant fantasy release this november. As far as things look now, this can either be TK with armybook or HE without. (unless HE are getting a new book despite some people suggesting they aren't).

Hoarmurel
16-05-2010, 20:07
I hear metal Horrors command will be released as well. That kills any hope of them in plastic for a while imo. Stores will start pulling them in the near future if this is the case, to be repackaged with a price increase probably.


I don't want to contradict you, but hastings has said this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4659989&postcount=27).

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 20:24
This is second time this has been brought up, and might I add that there is no time frame on this post; it might not be this release.

Tymell
16-05-2010, 21:04
Daemons? Wow, this one took me by surprise. True, a second wave has been rumbled about for a while, but I wasn't expecting it in August.

Grimstonefire
16-05-2010, 21:07
If hastings has said that in that thread, I am taking it as a very good sign that they will be coming out this year in that wave!

Judging by the daemonettes and bloodletters I'm not holding out for awesome models, but horrors are supposed to be warped creatures of change so it wouldn't matter too much imo if the models weren't great.

Belakor
16-05-2010, 22:09
Groan... I hope 8th ed. nerf Daemons good.

Why? I want that army so bad, and I hate for it to be what it is now.

Daemons in plastic - here I come!

Paraelix
16-05-2010, 22:26
They actually used to give a lot more information and pictures than they do now. Today they aernt nearly as informative as they used to be.

And yet somehow people find out all about every release from "leaks" and "I heard from this staff member that..."

They are being tight lipped because in recent time entire releases have hit the net before their release. Until they have a handle on controlling the flow of information, they aren't telling anyone anything. I'm really good friends with some of the local staff members and they honestly know close to nothing about the next ed of fantasy. In all likelihood they won't know anything until they get the book to learn the rules about a month ahead of the release.

So as such, I have no idea where people seem to get all their information and rumours from. Just be happy they're letting you know this much :P

Balerion
16-05-2010, 22:34
I reacon we'll see the Horrors in plastic, I mean GW are releasing this for both systems so it's kind of a no brainer.
When they sell these dual system kits do they give you round bases, square bases, or both?

mrtn
16-05-2010, 22:40
When they sell these dual system kits do they give you round bases, square bases, or both?

Both.

I would have liked to see plastic PBs, but then I'm selfish.

Tuch
16-05-2010, 22:52
Groan... I hope 8th ed. nerf Daemons good.

I hear ya. I love my undivided DOC army and my Bloodthirster that I just finished painting. Though I have far from an over-the top build I love the models and want to field the army even if they are nerfed into being the worst army ever I'll still use em. :D

Avian
16-05-2010, 22:54
He also mentioned a significant fantasy release this november. As far as things look now, this can either be TK with armybook or HE without. (unless HE are getting a new book despite some people suggesting they aren't).
I believe November is Dark Eldar for 40K. The High Elf kits should be out in October. Tomb Kings are next year.

SatireSphere
16-05-2010, 23:12
So a grand total of one army book for this year? Depressing.

GodlessM
16-05-2010, 23:19
I believe November is Dark Eldar for 40K. The High Elf kits should be out in October. Tomb Kings are next year.

I heard Dark Eldar are October, but then again the guy could have been refering to the pre-release box.

Spiney Norman
16-05-2010, 23:21
I believe November is Dark Eldar for 40K. The High Elf kits should be out in October. Tomb Kings are next year.

Ok, I'm holding you to that, I don't suppose you want to elaborate on a slightly more precise time frame than that, are we talking Jan-Feb next year, or Nov-Dec next year for TK?

Still I guess I can live on my other armies for a year or so, it would put TK at 18 months away max, still it gives me hope that they actually haven't decided to squat the army, I was beginning to wonder.


So a grand total of one army book for this year? Depressing.

Yeah, but we've had wave releases instead:shifty:

Scelerat
17-05-2010, 00:36
I believe November is Dark Eldar for 40K. The High Elf kits should be out in October. Tomb Kings are next year.

These three things made me happy. Of course, I would be happier if I had something like "all the models and armies Scelerat wants to be released will be released and sent to him as birthday presents", but this will have to do.
:)

Avian
17-05-2010, 07:29
So a grand total of one army book for this year? Depressing.
I believe this was intended to be the Year of Fantasy, in the same manner that in the Chinese calendar, it is the Year of the Tiger. You don't see unusually many tigers around, do you?

AramilSairSianontel
17-05-2010, 07:41
I believe this was intended to be the Year of Fantasy, in the same manner that in the Chinese calendar, it is the Year of the Tiger. You don't see unusually many tigers around, do you?

AHA!!
Thanks Avian. It all makes sense at last.

Avian
17-05-2010, 07:57
Ok, I'm holding you to that, I don't suppose you want to elaborate on a slightly more precise time frame than that, are we talking Jan-Feb next year, or Nov-Dec next year for TK?
I believe it's more May-ish, but again I won't bet my car on it. I also believe all rumours seen about them thus far have been wishlisting at best (which is not to say that they might not be correct - you don't need to be well connected to figure out that plastic Tomb Guard are very likely, for example).

KalEf
17-05-2010, 08:19
I believe it's more May-ish, but again I won't bet my car on it. I also believe all rumours seen about them thus far have been wishlisting at best (which is not to say that they might not be correct - you don't need to be well connected to figure out that plastic Tomb Guard are very likely, for example).

The question then is: how nice is avian's car?

strewart
17-05-2010, 08:55
Mmmmm slightly OT, but dark eldar finally coming would be brilliant. Scary though, might push me back into 40k.

More daemons? Well... I really think GW needs to give at least a small teaser photo. At the moment its no different to hearing it on Warseer really. And plenty of other armies need models at least as much if not more.

Tokamak
17-05-2010, 09:04
It's that year in which fantasy gets updated, the year of fantasy. So keep the 40k releases coming.

strewart
17-05-2010, 09:20
No lads, its the year of fantasy. We have to all sit around and fantasize about what it would be like to get a strong release schedule.

Desert Rain
17-05-2010, 09:42
No lads, its the year of fantasy. We have to all sit around and fantasize about what it would be like to get a strong release schedule.
Your right, it's getting a bit depressing though...

I'll be looking forward to the High Elves release in October then:)

andyg2006
17-05-2010, 10:21
Not saying they're likely, but I think I'd like to see something like various kinds of Daemonic chariots and individual Herald models, but that's just me.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-05-2010, 10:56
Maybe plastic crushers? At £18 a metal model they are very pricey, I thought they might change them to the now standard 3 for £30 plastic set. I know the metal crusher model wasn't released that long ago, but they did a similar thing for morgul knights for lotr, they came out in metal a couple of years ago and now have come out in plastic, just a straight port of the design.

Just my thoughts,

Nixon

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 11:15
Maybe plastic crushers? At £18 a metal model they are very pricey, I thought they might change them to the now standard 3 for £30 plastic set. I know the metal crusher model wasn't released that long ago, but they did a similar thing for morgul knights for lotr, they came out in metal a couple of years ago and now have come out in plastic, just a straight port of the design.

Just my thoughts,

Nixon

Definitely not, they only designed the current ones two years ago.

Spiney Norman
17-05-2010, 11:22
I believe it's more May-ish, but again I won't bet my car on it. I also believe all rumours seen about them thus far have been wishlisting at best (which is not to say that they might not be correct - you don't need to be well connected to figure out that plastic Tomb Guard are very likely, for example).

Actually that's better than I expected, I'm also fairly confident that the TK rumour threads that have been circulating are largely a combination of unsourced guesswork and wishlists. I am really hoping for new skeleton warriors though, the current ones just don't cut it at any level.

MasterSlowPoke
17-05-2010, 11:24
From the 40k thread:


I may not have mentioned it but that doesnt mean it was beyond my sight. As i've said many times before I need to have some secrets :)

Anyway i feel a vision coming on.....

The veil parts.....

The mysts of the warp fall open and the mortal realm catches a glimpse of the tumultuous realm of the gods. The surface of a distant planet coalesces before you. A mighty vista streches into the distance, the sky is a multi coloured smudge that churns and roars silently like an ocean in the grip of a great and terrible maelstrom. As you take in the sight before you multi hewed creatures caper across your vision cackling endlessly as they shift and change in the edies of the Emperyian. Suddenly the Diciples of Destruction swiftly charge across the plain, reveling in the dismay and debauchery they inflict in the name of the Prince of Pleasure. The tounges of their mounts flick out nervously as they sense the approach of their daemonic nemesis'. The Foot of Khorne charge from the horizon, blood and molten metal left in their wake as they attack the lithe riders of the Prince of Pleasure in a terrible stampede. Both rider and mount clash in a never ending dance of death.

As you look your point of view suddenly shifts, in the distance a mighty eddifice raises endlessly into the violent sky. On a balcony many Daemon Lords watch the ensuing combat, some wildy exhaulting their followers, others wisely taciturn and silent. In the shadows a shape moves, it's form seems to shift and warp as it flits around the balcony playing tricks on its daemonic cousins for its own amusement. You move up to the top of the tower, in a secluded chamber a mighty daemon lord stares endlessly into a crystal, muttering gibberish to itself. It's blind eyes seem unable to encompass it's own surroundings but as your vision begins to fade one of it's heads turns to look at you. As you see the creatures twisted visage you realise it has seen more than any other creature of it's kind, even it's patron deity knows not what sights have passed before its shattered from. It smiles at you......the veil closes your vision has ended.

It's to early in the morning for me to decipher rumor fan-fiction but the dude who posted this, for you WHFB dudes that don't do 40k, has a 100% track record when it comes to rumors.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-05-2010, 11:27
Fair enough Godless, my reasoning was based, as I said, on the recent surprise (for me) addition of plastic morgul knights, as the metal set for them was only released in June 2008.

Nixon

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 11:44
Fair enough Godless, my reasoning was based, as I said, on the recent surprise (for me) addition of plastic morgul knights, as the metal set for them was only released in June 2008.


Was unaware of this. Maybe you are on to something as that post that just came in mentions them.


It's to early in the morning for me to decipher rumor fan-fiction but the dude who posted this, for you WHFB dudes that don't do 40k, has a 100% track record when it comes to rumors.

It mentions Horrors, Seekers, Bloodcrushers, Daemon Princes, The Changeling, and Kairos.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-05-2010, 11:56
So the post does, just deciphered it. Well that would be good, I love the crusher model but not it's price tag.

Cheers,

Nixon

StarFyreXXX
17-05-2010, 12:13
If that is meant to be indicative of the possible releases in august, that is A LOT of models for a splash release....

(good though...just saying)

Sanjay

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 12:48
If that is meant to be indicative of the possible releases in august, that is A LOT of models for a splash release....

(good though...just saying)

Sanjay

I agree, it is a lot and seems strange but if this guy has a 100% track record for rumours...

Tymell
17-05-2010, 12:52
I agree, it is a lot and seems strange but if this guy has a 100% track record for rumours...

DPA does indeed have a firm record, as can be seen in his past posts:

In January he gave an accurate description of the Blood Angel Sanguinary Guard.

In March described the Eldar fire prism as coming closer to Forge World Eldar super-heavies.

In April said that the Eldar support weapons would be similar to vypers with a gunner seat/cradle.

Mr_Foulscumm
17-05-2010, 13:31
To be honest GW's recent 'news' bear some semblance to spam.

'We will release something soon but we're not gonna tell you what it is, ner ner ner'.

Such posts would be deleted on WarSeer.

I highly doubt that seeing as about 98% of all Warseer posts contain roughly the same amount of information. This one included.

And here I was thinking that the mould for the plastic Prince had been broken. If it is coming out... well... great news!

Spiney Norman
17-05-2010, 13:33
If that is meant to be indicative of the possible releases in august, that is A LOT of models for a splash release....

(good though...just saying)

Sanjay

maybe they will release a new, toned-down daemon army book as well :angel:

Ramius4
17-05-2010, 13:35
DPA has been spot on with everything he has posted. I can attest to that. He doesn't post often, but when he does it's worth paying attention.

He likes being cryptic, and as such won't give specifics as to whether releases are metal or plastic, but he's always right about what the models are.

zak
17-05-2010, 14:05
That really is a large amount of models for one release. I was really disappointed with the original release and the book and would like to play with an army that you can actually use without being thought of as a power gamer. Shame about the release schedule. I was hoping for atleast 2 new books this year.

DaemonReign
17-05-2010, 14:16
About damn time. Sheesh.

I think it was

Plastic DP
Plastic seekers
Scribes
Changeling
More metal heralds.

OK let's see.. Plastic DP - I got two of DP's already and I only use them for laughs because the Prince in the Daemon-book is ridiculous. Large target that causes Fear.. What were they smoking?! Just compare it to the WoC Daemon Prince - now that's what the DoC DP ought to be like. With current AB there's virtually never a good reason for picking the DP instead of a Greater Daemon. And that's a shame. Still, I guess I'll get the model just to bump my Daemon horde to 20k.

Plastic Seekers.. Well, I'll shoot myself.. I wanted Seekers so I bought 16 of the Gamezone-models and put on some parts from the plastic Daemonettes. If you think Bloodcrushers are pricey.. haha

Scribes, Changeling, Kairos.. My group don't play with Special Characters.. So that'll be fun.

Plastic Bloodcrushers.. I got 12 of the metal ones, wondering what I'll do with more of them really.

Now.. Horrors command would be something cool. A Khorne Herald on chariot would also be nice (not to mention the Burning Chariot) because then I won't have to build anything myself..;)

Nah.. Who am I kidding, this is a great rumour! If it's True all that's missing is a new AB where Bloodcrushers and that DP is worth taking into the roster.

Mr_Foulscumm
17-05-2010, 14:21
Plastic Bloodcrushers.. I got 12 of the metal ones, wondering what I'll do with more of them really.


Not going to happen this time around

Gork or Possibly Mork
17-05-2010, 14:25
I can see seekers, daemon prince, changeling, and Kairos but why crushers.

It's a fairly new(ish) model and nothing wrong with it.

Yeah I know plastic but still.

DaemonReign
17-05-2010, 14:27
That really is a large amount of models for one release. I was really disappointed with the original release and the book and would like to play with an army that you can actually use without being thought of as a power gamer. Shame about the release schedule. I was hoping for atleast 2 new books this year.

Don't let the poor losers get to you. I don't buy this "Daemons are so OP" crap. There's nothing in my gaming-experience to support it. I have a 50/50 win-loss ratio against the Empire and O&G, Dwarves are as easy to beat with Daemons as the other two, and Dark Elves win against my Daemons like 9 out 10 times.

The only solid win I've had against Dark Elves was a 4k battle where I was really lucky with the dice and my opponent was drunk and only half-hearted ('cause he could lose and still win the ME-campaign we were playing by good margins).

But my friends are just like the people here in Warseer. Everyone has just laid down flat for this pissing and moaning about Daemons being OP. Perhaps they arn't a low-tier army, but then if everything is supposed to be so balanced then hell just play Empire vs Empire (using two identical rosters even!) and see how fun that is.

No. I like challenges. I like the fact that some armies are harder to beat then others. It gives something to aspire for - and those rare victories are sweeter than the given ones.

Gork or Possibly Mork
17-05-2010, 14:38
I like challenges. I like the fact that some armies are harder to beat then others. It gives something to aspire for - and those rare victories are sweeter than the given ones.

Funny I say that bold part often when facing Daemons...lol

My ratio against them is about 20% if Im lucky. 0% with my ogres.

They're not as bad as some make them out to be but against alot of builds they are a huge uphill struggle.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-05-2010, 15:20
I can see seekers, daemon prince, changeling, and Kairos but why crushers.

It's a fairly new(ish) model and nothing wrong with it.

Yeah I know plastic but still.

Because at the moment it is so expensive, £18 a go is rip off IMO. If it is 3 for £30 for a new plastic set, then that saves you £24, definitely worth it. I don't want them to change the look, they are ice cool as they are; if the new plastic morgul knights are anything to go by they won't, they are identical to the metal models released 2 years ago.

Nixon

Grimstonefire
17-05-2010, 15:28
I am fairly confident they will not be releasing lord level characters this time around, other than the DP.

The greater daemon models all need a resculpt anyway, and to do them justice they'd need to be ones you could convert with bits into the special characters.

Plus they'll need something to release with the actual 8th ed book, and they may want to release something between now and then, seeing as it could be many years away. I don't know whether the 40k release schedule would make GD resculpts likely to come sooner or not?

Juggers would only come in plastic for chariots I think. Which would be very nice.

Desert Rain
17-05-2010, 15:38
I hope they do Kairos, it would be great to see a model for him.

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 15:47
Don't let the poor losers get to you. I don't buy this "Daemons are so OP" crap. There's nothing in my gaming-experience to support it. I have a 50/50 win-loss ratio against the Empire and O&G, Dwarves are as easy to beat with Daemons as the other two, and Dark Elves win against my Daemons like 9 out 10 times.

The only solid win I've had against Dark Elves was a 4k battle where I was really lucky with the dice and my opponent was drunk and only half-hearted ('cause he could lose and still win the ME-campaign we were playing by good margins).

But my friends are just like the people here in Warseer. Everyone has just laid down flat for this pissing and moaning about Daemons being OP. Perhaps they arn't a low-tier army, but then if everything is supposed to be so balanced then hell just play Empire vs Empire (using two identical rosters even!) and see how fun that is.

No. I like challenges. I like the fact that some armies are harder to beat then others. It gives something to aspire for - and those rare victories are sweeter than the given ones.

The experience of one man hardly attests to the true nature which has been experienced by 99% of tournament regulars across the world.

Kalandros
17-05-2010, 16:32
I guess maybe he isn't playing the army correctly. Which is weird because even a newcomer to Warhammer could wipe out a veteran with Daemons.

I got nurgle wall'd at 1500 pts against my Orcs & Gobs. You cannot do anything about it, you just lose.

ukko
17-05-2010, 17:55
strange things...

I never mind playing against daemons but the 'they aren't that good' argument is just bizarre, same with people claiming dark elves are a 'finesse army'. The tournament results provide solid empirical evidence - it isn't really up for debate any more. Doesn't mean you should feel bad for playing the better races, but you have to accept that you're starting most games with an advantage - at least out of consideration for your opponents.

Great news about the release though

pjschard
17-05-2010, 18:03
Mebbe the release includes a chariot kit that can be assembled as a blood crusher chariot or a tzeentch flying chariot?
It would include some finagling of the chariot itself, but would explains why we're hearing plastic screamer and plastic crusher rumours, while not cannibalizing newly released minis' sales?

silashand
17-05-2010, 18:49
The experience of one man hardly attests to the true nature which has been experienced by 99% of tournament regulars across the world.

Amen to that. However, it must be said that one-off games where you can tailor your list mitigates a lot of the daemon uberness IMO. Unfortunately, tourneys generally don't/can't allow that and as such plays to the daemons' strengths which are many.

Cheers, Gary

Tokamak
17-05-2010, 19:06
I like the fact that some armies are harder to beat then others.

I wish I could say "I stopped reading after that" but I was already at the end...

KalEf
17-05-2010, 19:07
I guess maybe he isn't playing the army correctly. Which is weird because even a newcomer to Warhammer could wipe out a veteran with Daemons.

I got nurgle wall'd at 1500 pts against my Orcs & Gobs. You cannot do anything about it, you just lose.


The experience of one man hardly attests to the true nature which has been experienced by 99% of tournament regulars across the world.

lol don't come down on this guy too hard. Though his post comes across a little bratty at first, It sounds like he has to play the dark elves a lot :( . I got the new dark elf book, painted a bunch of dudes, played 7 games, massacred my opponent in every game, haven't taken them off the shelf since. It was dwarf, daemon, daemon, vamp, daemon, WoC, Lizards... Just decapitation/ breath weapon city :eek: . The last couple of games, I just apologized a lot passed turn 3. From the dark elf perspective, the daemons are a balanced book. :angel:

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 19:30
Depends on the build.

loveless
17-05-2010, 19:34
Mebbe the release includes a chariot kit that can be assembled as a blood crusher chariot or a tzeentch flying chariot?
It would include some finagling of the chariot itself, but would explains why we're hearing plastic screamer and plastic crusher rumours, while not cannibalizing newly released minis' sales?

It would take more than just adding variant pieces to the chariot...by the time you were done making one Khornate and one Tzeentchian, you'd end up with a kit that was really two models...except for maybe the base...

Outside of Daemon Princes, I wouldn't be holding my breath for multi-god plastics.

DaemonReign
17-05-2010, 20:11
lol don't come down on this guy too hard. Though his post comes across a little bratty at first, It sounds like he has to play the dark elves a lot :( . I got the new dark elf book, painted a bunch of dudes, played 7 games, massacred my opponent in every game, haven't taken them off the shelf since. It was dwarf, daemon, daemon, vamp, daemon, WoC, Lizards... Just decapitation/ breath weapon city :eek: . The last couple of games, I just apologized a lot passed turn 3. From the dark elf perspective, the daemons are a balanced book. :angel:

.. exactly. But I don't whine about that. I think it's Ok. I believe it's a bit unfair how dwarves have it in the 7th - it's their movement basically and they've got nothing to compensate for it. Maybe the 8th edition will fix that for them with bigger r&f-units getting alot better. And hey, maybe the 8th will generally nerf DoC in the same way. Which is fine. More of a challenge and more fun when you win.

Perhaps the fact that we play without Special Characters make a difference compared to all that combined experience you guys refer to with respect to tournaments etc. I don't know.. But when my poor Daemons get whaaged-over by savage-orcs, or when some priest with a silly mirror kills my greater daemon and a steamtank whipes out my center.. Well nobody complains about that for some reason.

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 21:10
That's just lack of experience if I am not mistaken. Every Waltar Priest carries the Speculum generally.

Tuatha Dar
17-05-2010, 21:15
No. I like challenges.

Then why are you playing Demons? :)
THE least challenging army in Warhammer.

Tuatha

Leggy
17-05-2010, 21:16
Juggers would only come in plastic for chariots I think. Which would be very nice.

If you're doing a plastic Jugger for a chariot, might as well put it on its own sprue. Then you're halfway to a bloodcrusher model.

That said, I think Bloodcrushers are more likely than a chariot in plastic. As a character-only mount i doubt they'll sell enough to make profitable.

DaemonReign
17-05-2010, 21:53
That's just lack of experience if I am not mistaken. Every Waltar Priest carries the Speculum generally.

Yeah.. Or any given preist in whatever block of swordsmen, knights or whatever else you got. You never know. No matter how experienced you are.

DaemonReign
17-05-2010, 22:00
Then why are you playing Demons? :)
THE least challenging army in Warhammer.

Tuatha

Firstly, I think we've established that DE are less challenging. And that race was already picked by someone who, indeed, pretty much only plays to win (the rest of us paints his figures and he uses them to beat our races into oblivion) - hehe - secondly;

Since I've never been much for fraternizing I had no idea what the Daemons were when I started collecting them. I had been an O&G-guy since forever and pretty much saw the new Bloodletter/Bloodcrusher models and on that basis I decided to make DoC my next project.

Now.. If all resistence was "Dwarf-like" I would pray for the Daemons to get nerfed as well - but now that I play 50/50 against most races and get my ass kicked by the DE I'm kinda hoping against hope that Daemons remain at least as good just to screw with all you people who really should start playing the same race and roster on both sides of the table.;)

Tokamak
17-05-2010, 22:03
If you're playing daemons for their character and models, then you, the one who likes challenges should be in favour of seeing them tuned down a notch or two.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
17-05-2010, 22:11
As already said, it comes down to the tournament record IMO, and that shows that demons are generally a bit better than any other army. Though this does come from some specific very nasty units and combos, I think the widespread success of demons comes down if part to the fact that there are a variety of viable builds possible so that they can suit different players, while still being very competitive. With other armies that isn't usually the case, the number of tournament builds is smaller. It would be shame to cut out this variety, though it is probably best that some combos be made less viable to counter the advantage that demons obviously possess.

Hope this helps,

Nixon

GodlessM
17-05-2010, 22:35
Yeah.. Or any given preist in whatever block of swordsmen, knights or whatever else you got. You never know. No matter how experienced you are.

Actually when you play at tournaments even semi-regularly, or requent an internet forum, you do.

Drahazar
17-05-2010, 23:20
I was hopeing for TK to come out this was certainly a surprise.

KalEf
17-05-2010, 23:22
Actually when you play at tournaments even semi-regularly, or requent an internet forum, you do.

this daemon wave should have the DP, seekers, 3 chariots, And a new war alter with a mirror in the warrior priest's pocket. lol ;) ... maybe thats only funny to me.

Vermin-thing
17-05-2010, 23:44
It's somewhat depressing that it seems like it's just going to be a new wave of models and not an army book. :(

All this smells like something fishy is happening with 8th (500+ pages), and somehow (as sad as it is) it seems like releasing any new army books would be counter productive.

Hopefully 8th inspires me to bring out the daemons again.

decker_cky
17-05-2010, 23:51
Well...some of the new rumours seem like they'll require at least some erratas to the rulebooks. Maybe GW will just revise daemons more thoroughly?

Mr_Foulscumm
18-05-2010, 02:11
It's somewhat depressing that it seems like it's just going to be a new wave of models and not an army book. :(

All this smells like something fishy is happening with 8th (500+ pages), and somehow (as sad as it is) it seems like releasing any new army books would be counter productive.

Fishy? Well it is a splash release after all! :D

Seriously though...

R-Love
18-05-2010, 03:37
It's somewhat depressing that it seems like it's just going to be a new wave of models and not an army book. :(

I love this attitude. People complain when an army comes out that they didn't put enough models in because they're saving them for a second wave, and complaining these second waves never happen. So they release more models for a second wave, and people complain because there's no new book. And people wonder why GW doesn't listen to it's customers... (See also; rumours when Ogres were released, people whined that they should be toned down :D)

Lusall
18-05-2010, 05:02
No plastic plaguebearers/horrors?

Most likely not. I think I remember GW (or someone at the higher up area rather) said that there were no plans to do plaguebearers or horrors anytime soon. Though, I'd be more excited than Jesus when he walked on water if they actually did make plastic kits for them.

Ramius4
18-05-2010, 05:31
Most likely not. I think I remember GW (or someone at the higher up area rather) said that there were no plans to do plaguebearers or horrors anytime soon. Though, I'd be more excited than Jesus when he walked on water if they actually did make plastic kits for them.

I wouldn't hold your breath on the horror comment. Ever hear of a poster that goes by Daemon Prince Abimelrech? Horrors are coming bud.

Vermin-thing
18-05-2010, 07:11
I love this attitude. People complain when an army comes out that they didn't put enough models in because they're saving them for a second wave, and complaining these second waves never happen. So they release more models for a second wave, and people complain because there's no new book. And people wonder why GW doesn't listen to it's customers... (See also; rumours when Ogres were released, people whined that they should be toned down :D)

Attitude? I was only saying that it feels like their doing something with 8th that might make further army books redundant.

I love this attitude that misses the point of the post by about a mile. I also love this attitude about how in this case (daemons) that the current book is lacking, and sure some models might make me start painting daemons again. I'm all for new models. I would require a new book in order to play them though.

Two new waves without books for armies that need them most, it seems like they are missing an opportunity or two.

To be blunt there is no such thing as a second wave for anything but space marines. :shifty:

I wish 8th would come faster so that we can stop whining.

minionboy
18-05-2010, 08:01
This is what I'm looking forward for:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3990202&postcount=405

Tymell
18-05-2010, 08:19
I wish 8th would come faster so that we can stop whining.

The arrival of something new putting a stop to the whining about it? Come now Vermin-thing, you know better than that :p

Vermin-thing
18-05-2010, 08:25
The arrival of something new putting a stop to the whining about it? Come now Vermin-thing, you know better than that :p

Surely 8th will be so great that all the worlds questions will be answered. :rolleyes:

I think people are suffering from lack of knowledge, besides that 8th will be epic.

Tokamak
18-05-2010, 08:59
This is what I'm looking forward for:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3990202&postcount=405

I prefer the current ones.

GodlessM
18-05-2010, 11:06
Two new waves without books for armies that need them most, it seems like they are missing an opportunity or two.


Well one of them is High Elves, and they certainly don't need a new book any time soon.

Valaraukar
18-05-2010, 11:13
I think he is referring to the O&G boars and trolls wave, but who knows with 8th maybe even the greenies will look a it better though obviously still hampered by animosity.

StarFyreXXX
18-05-2010, 11:26
Big splash releases are good...just wish every army got that :)

Sanjay

Mr_Foulscumm
18-05-2010, 13:22
I think people are suffering from lack of knowledge, besides that 8th will be epic.

Don´t you mean Warmaster?

Dai-Mongar
18-05-2010, 13:44
Surely 8th will be so great that all the worlds questions will be answered. :rolleyes:

I think people are suffering from lack of knowledge, besides that 8th will be epic.

Oh yes, it'll all be very zen. Tournaments will be scenes of blissful serenity, neckbeards all the world over will finally shave and 12-year-olds will be cured of ADD by the mystical tranquil aura of the 8th ed rulebook.

Tokamak
18-05-2010, 14:07
I love this attitude. People complain when an army comes out that they didn't put enough models in because they're saving them for a second wave, and complaining these second waves never happen. So they release more models for a second wave, and people complain because there's no new book. And people wonder why GW doesn't listen to it's customers... (See also; rumours when Ogres were released, people whined that they should be toned down :D)

In case of the daemons, the complaints were definitely more prominently about the army book.

The only point of light here is that people get a better chance and creating more balanced armies. It's a bit ironic.

loveless
18-05-2010, 18:59
Most likely not. I think I remember GW (or someone at the higher up area rather) said that there were no plans to do plaguebearers or horrors anytime soon.

Note that some of the higher-ups from GW said that they would not be redoing Space Hulk in conversations just 3 months prior to the release of Space Hulk. The higher-ups can and will spread misinformation if they're trying to keep something secret.

R-Love
18-05-2010, 22:50
Attitude? I was only saying that it feels like their doing something with 8th that might make further army books redundant.

I love this attitude that misses the point of the post by about a mile. I also love this attitude about how in this case (daemons) that the current book is lacking, and sure some models might make me start painting daemons again. I'm all for new models. I would require a new book in order to play them though.

Two new waves without books for armies that need them most, it seems like they are missing an opportunity or two.

To be blunt there is no such thing as a second wave for anything but space marines. :shifty:

1. For the point I was trying to make, the army in question is irrelevant. People complained that there was no new book when the Orc releases came out, and have already begun to for High Elves (despite the small detail of not actually knowing what is in the release)
2. The models in this release have been expected for a while, and there have been a significant number of threads whining about not having them. When they're released, the people still whine. This was my point, it's irritating
3. In what way are the models unplayable? Particularly considering that all of them can be used in at least one army in both systems? Don't believe all the calls off how broken Daemons are, it is entirely possible to make an army that is both fun to play (for you and your opponent) that won't steamroll everything.
4. It is meaningless to say which books need to be redone most, as 8th is going to change the ranking of the armies. The armies that need new books most are TK, Bretts and Ogres, as they were designed for 6th edition and need to be put in line with the new edition, regardless of their power

Anyways, rant over. Just appreciate what is being released rather than whining about what's not, is what I'm trying to say


I wish 8th would come faster so that we can stop whining.

We don't need to wait for 8th, you know :)

Urgat
19-05-2010, 07:18
I prefer the current ones.

If you were asking, I'd say this is an understatement if I ever heard one.

Spiney Norman
19-05-2010, 10:12
1. For the point I was trying to make, the army in question is irrelevant. People complained that there was no new book when the Orc releases came out, and have already begun to for High Elves (despite the small detail of not actually knowing what is in the release)
2. The models in this release have been expected for a while, and there have been a significant number of threads whining about not having them. When they're released, the people still whine. This was my point, it's irritating

In what way were river trolls "expected" in advance of the official announcement of their release, I hadn't seen anything to indicate them before GWs announcement, certainly not in the same way we've been expecting the daemon wave.


4. It is meaningless to say which books need to be redone most, as 8th is going to change the ranking of the armies. The armies that need new books most are TK, Bretts and Ogres, as they were designed for 6th edition and need to be put in line with the new edition, regardless of their power

Anyways, rant over. Just appreciate what is being

You missed out wood elves, which is not only a 6th Ed book, but is also getting totally crucified by the current 8th Ed rumours. Dwarfs are technically a 6th Ed book too (in that it was released before 7th Ed).

GodlessM
19-05-2010, 11:53
Dwarfs are technically a 6th Ed book too (in that it was released before 7th Ed).

It was designed for 7th edition though, though I assume you are already acknowledging this fact with the word 'technically'.

Spiney Norman
19-05-2010, 14:34
Yes, Dwarfs were a kind of proto-7th Ed book, in the same way that beasts are proto-8th, though both still technically released under the preious edition.

Spike Fiend
19-05-2010, 14:37
Not that I'm obsessed with continuing the off-topic discussion about Daemons of Chaos being overpowered, but would such an army be more balanced if one played with a House Rule that did not allow players to have Daemons of more than one God in one army?

Tokamak
19-05-2010, 14:39
It would be a tad more balanced and I hope the new models allow for that.

Spike Fiend
19-05-2010, 14:43
Great, for it is definitely a fluffy House Rule! (:

Tymell
19-05-2010, 15:36
Great, for it is definitely a fluffy House Rule! (:

It would help keep down their overall strength, certainly, and it's a perfectly fluffy idea, but I'd also remind that there's nothing non-fluffy about mixed-god armies, and never has been.

GodlessM
19-05-2010, 17:34
Not that I'm obsessed with continuing the off-topic discussion about Daemons of Chaos being overpowered, but would such an army be more balanced if one played with a House Rule that did not allow players to have Daemons of more than one God in one army?

Not really. Mono-God armies for Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle are all immensly powerful and easil walk over other armies.

Malorian
19-05-2010, 17:36
If you want a fun house rule, make the deamons take break tests like they used to ;)

Tokamak
19-05-2010, 20:09
It would help keep down their overall strength, certainly, and it's a perfectly fluffy idea, but I'd also remind that there's nothing non-fluffy about mixed-god armies, and never has been.

It's more about themes. Multiple god armies just makes it a tasteless blend.

Tymell
19-05-2010, 21:59
It's more about themes. Multiple god armies just makes it a tasteless blend.

Eh, different strokes, for me it's flavoursome as mono-god ones :) Depends on your tastes.

It's just the notion that multi-god armies somehow contradict the background that I'm against.

selone
19-05-2010, 22:22
Eh, different strokes, for me it's flavoursome as mono-god ones :) Depends on your tastes.

It's just the notion that multi-god armies somehow contradict the background that I'm against.

I'm not sure I'd want to face a mono nurgle army :) Mono slaanesh would be less painful.

Are you arguing that the multi-god armies don't contradict the background or that they have never contradicted the games background?

Tymell
19-05-2010, 22:46
Are you arguing that the multi-god armies don't contradict the background or that they have never contradicted the games background?

That they have never contradicted the background. The background/rules in the most recent book are definitely more open to mixing than previously, and personally I wouldn't mind a bit more limitation, but it's never actually been against the background of the game to mix different god forces.

ascendedjesse
20-05-2010, 00:06
I'm not sure I'd want to face a mono nurgle army :) Mono slaanesh would be less painful.


Depends on your army I suppose, a leadership based mono slaanesh can be terrible match up for some armies.

Lusall
20-05-2010, 03:38
I wouldn't hold your breath on the horror comment. Ever hear of a poster that goes by Daemon Prince Abimelrech? Horrors are coming bud.

No actually...I've not.

Like I said...I'd be super excited if they did. But I won't hold my breath.

Discord
20-05-2010, 05:36
That they have never contradicted the background. The background/rules in the most recent book are definitely more open to mixing than previously, and personally I wouldn't mind a bit more limitation, but it's never actually been against the background of the game to mix different god forces.

Sure has. Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness states that Khorne and Slaanesh hate each other and none of their army lists can include the opposing god's followers. Same with Nurgle/Tzeentch. Of course, any army could include allies from the non-opposing gods, as long as only one of them was selected (couldn't include allies from two different armies that hate each other, after all).

PeG
20-05-2010, 05:46
8th ed will go a long way to make daemons more balanced.

25% characters will mean no GD in most games or very few heralds

only one save will hurt the PB bunker

New magic rules should take care of min sized horror units

more attacks from basic infantry will hurt all daemons since many attacks is the bane of daemons in general and they will have a pay many points to get the new advantages.

autobreaking from fear/terror will go away

autobreaking chariots will disappear (which is something khorne heralds are good at today)

plus some other rules changes. Sure daemons will probably continue to be a strong army but I dont see them keeping the uncontested no1 spot. Instead I am guessing that DE will ocme out on top.

ChaosVC
20-05-2010, 05:59
I want my plastic daemon prince and tranvestites riding on dodgy pink sea horses that run on ground.

Tymell
20-05-2010, 07:35
Sure has. Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness states that Khorne and Slaanesh hate each other and none of their army lists can include the opposing god's followers. Same with Nurgle/Tzeentch. Of course, any army could include allies from the non-opposing gods, as long as only one of them was selected (couldn't include allies from two different armies that hate each other, after all).

It also states however that the gods are totally unpredictable, that anything can happen and (if memory serves me) that daemons are just as likely to fight other daemons of the same god as they are other ones.

More limitations to represent the rivalries would still be nice of course, but at the end of the day Chaos is Chaos ;)

Urgat
20-05-2010, 07:47
And yet they're the most reliable army in the game :p

Tymell
20-05-2010, 08:41
And yet they're the most reliable army in the game :p

How unchaotic! And yet if they were made more chaotic in their next incarnation, you'd only get people complaining that it ruins the game :p

Spiney Norman
20-05-2010, 08:46
And yet they're the most reliable army in the game :p

I actually disagree with that, I would argue that Lizardmen are more reliable, just have less damage potential.

Urgat
20-05-2010, 10:02
An army w/o psychology and which won't flee is more reliable than an army that has neither (it may lose in flexibility, but that's different), if you ask me, but that's not very important, it's a matter of opinion. What I wanted to say is that, if anything, demons should play a bit like greenkins, imho, lots of animosity tests, and spectacular ones when units from two different gods are involved (5th ed demonic animosity?).


How unchaotic! And yet if they were made more chaotic in their next incarnation, you'd only get people complaining that it ruins the game :p

Nah, everybody who wouldn't play demons would cheer(yeah, no kidding xD), some fluff demon players (I like to think there's actually a lot, for instance if I wasn't swamped in too many armies already, I'd start a slaanesh demon army right away) might like it too. But isn't it supposed to be fun? That's the argument people keep rubbing in my face everytime my gobs fail to do what I want them to do :p Surely fun isn't ruining the game? :D

Tuatha Dar
20-05-2010, 10:37
More limitations to represent the rivalries would still be nice of course, but at the end of the day Chaos is Chaos ;)

They should bring back Demonic Animosity. That in itself is flavorful, would introduce an element of uncertainly into an extremely "certain" army, and make people think twice about what they take in their armies and how they set them up. Getting rid of it was one of the many dumb ideas GW has had.

Tuatha

GodlessM
20-05-2010, 11:36
25% characters will mean no GD in most games or very few heralds

New magic rules should take care of min sized horror units


25% Lords is enough to take a GD, and with an extra 25% then on Heroes, the builds of today won't change much. Also, the new magic rumours do nothing to change Horrors.

Dominatrix
20-05-2010, 11:36
Check this review out if you like: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42606

Of particular interest is this part:


The view of the gods has changed too. As described by Jervis Johnson in WD #340’s Standard Bearer article, it is now a pantheon of gods with their own internal squabbles but also with a united front – much like you can find in Norse or Greek mythology – and the stories reflect this. But again you get that “shoehorn” feeling that it is designed to support the armylist and not the other way around. You can like this approach or not, but if you go back and read fantasy Chaos background material from the various army books, there is a fairly clear trend that softens the rivalry between the Chaos gods. Never mind the fact that through 6 iterations of Chaos army lists (3rd, 4th, 5th, Ravening Hordes, 6th and 7th edition) there has been 6 different interpretations of what a Chaos army should look like and what parts of the backgrounds they were based upon. GW and Chaos: Consistently inconsistent!


Just food for thought!!

Spiney Norman
20-05-2010, 14:22
25% Lords is enough to take a GD, and with an extra 25% then on Heroes, the builds of today won't change much. Also, the new magic rumours do nothing to change Horrors.

Thats true, but 500pts is not enough to take a fully gifted greater daemon. I will be much more confident about facing a blood thirster if it has had to leave its obsidian armour or insane strength at home. What you're really looking at for a BT now is the armour of khorne and one other 25 pt gift at 2K, ok its not much, but its better than a fully optimised version.

Lets be honest, it would be pretty idiotic if GW had rules GDs out of the game. I think this limitation is a sensible compromise.

Ender Shadowkin
20-05-2010, 15:55
25% Lords is enough to take a GD, and with an extra 25% then on Heroes, the builds of today won't change much. Also, the new magic rumours do nothing to change Horrors.

Well they won't generate power dice anymore (because no one does), so you won't be able to pump up your power dice from your core choices, that's somethin :D... The overal magic blits from a tzeentch list does get scalled back, you could end up wiht a ton of spells but only 4 dice to cast them with. This whole can't reapeat spells thing will need some working out with horrors though, will they "steal" available spells from Tzeentch wizards?

GodlessM
20-05-2010, 16:49
Well they won't generate power dice anymore (because no one does), so you won't be able to pump up your power dice from your core choices, that's somethin :D... The overal magic blits from a tzeentch list does get scalled back, you could end up wiht a ton of spells but only 4 dice to cast them with. This whole can't reapeat spells thing will need some working out with horrors though, will they "steal" available spells from Tzeentch wizards?

Yes but in 7th the average PD with 3 minimum units of Horrors was 5, whereas now it is on average 7 either way.

dragonet111
20-05-2010, 18:22
Not that I'm obsessed with continuing the off-topic discussion about Daemons of Chaos being overpowered, but would such an army be more balanced if one played with a House Rule that did not allow players to have Daemons of more than one God in one army?

I play Tzeentch, except Lord of Change and Prince daemon all my daemon suck in CC. If I was to play 8ed with only one God I would certainly play Tzeentch but I would probably field a Horde of 40 horrors with banner of change and herald.
I'm not sure if it's less cheesy as allowing me to field some Bloodletters.

What can be fun is to play with the Chaos Gods animosity for instance if your general is a daemon of Tzeentch then your are not allowed to field Nurgle units.
And one more thing I think that only one Greater daemon should be allowed.
(With the % it's more or less the case except in BIG games)

Tymell
21-05-2010, 08:01
Nah, everybody who wouldn't play demons would cheer(yeah, no kidding xD), some fluff demon players (I like to think there's actually a lot, for instance if I wasn't swamped in too many armies already, I'd start a slaanesh demon army right away) might like it too. But isn't it supposed to be fun? That's the argument people keep rubbing in my face everytime my gobs fail to do what I want them to do :p Surely fun isn't ruining the game? :D

Oh, -I- don't think it would ruin it, I think more chaos would be fun :D But you always know somebody will complain that it spoils their finely balanced competitive sport :p


They should bring back Demonic Animosity.

Agreed, taking anything is suitably chaotic, but the animosity would add flavour.

Ender Shadowkin
21-05-2010, 16:23
I never though immune to psychology was very fighting for Chaos Daemons ;). Sure fear shouldn't do much (but they already cause fear), but you would think the little guys would still get intimidated by big terror causers (like bigger dameons :-).

It would be nice if they just replaced Immune to Psych with some rule like Chaotic. Whenever they fail a leadership (or panic) test give them another chart to roll with some Chaosy things that will happen.

1: Poof, d6 models go back to the realm of chaos
2: Chaos Reigns, unit does not move and attacks itself (similar to animosity fail)
3: Adrenline Rush: Unit attempts to charge the nearest enemy
4: Ascend, D3 models are conveted to Power or Dispel dice
5: confused - unit is subject to stupidity
6: Severed bonds - will of the general is temporarly broken, unit moves towards nearest visible enemy, if no enemy is visible, unit moves towards nears board edge

The effects would all only last one turn. Would make a lot more sense than Daemons "fleeing" .

GodlessM
21-05-2010, 21:28
Not sure if anyone noticed, but that guy who left the big riddle about what is in the release over in the 40k section has said that Kairos and the Changeling are in as metal models.

ftayl5
22-05-2010, 07:29
(5th ed demonic animosity?).

I loved that rule. :)

I find daemons to be less reliable than lizards. Sure they wont flee, but they might all die if they lose combat. Wheras lizardmen are more likely to flee, but atleast they can't spontaineously disapear.

I miss 5th ed. I didn;t even play back then but watching Devstro and some other peoles Daemon vids makes me wish it was like that again, it made sense in a chaotic way.

dragonet111
22-05-2010, 07:37
I don't like Kairos, so if he is not release I won't miss him. The Changelin is another story I hope he will be released.

The minis I really want to be released is the Herald of Tzeentch.

fattdex
22-05-2010, 10:55
Just incase the pics have not yet been posted-

I love fateweaver a lot!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=cat1300072&section=&pIndex=2&aId=6800025a&start=3 by the way

mrtn
22-05-2010, 11:15
Thanks for the pics fattdex! Your link doesn't work, though.

fattdex
22-05-2010, 11:19
you'll need to copy both lines (will attemp to repair) and thanks to masterslowpoke, I didn't realised I glossed over what must be a plastic Bloodcrusher!

BlackIce
22-05-2010, 11:20
I like the new character models and the seeker steeds look amazing painted.
HATE the new horrors. They may not have been able to replicate the vision of the blue horrors emerging out of the pink horrors, emerging out of the blue horrors, but the goofy teeth and eyes can have no excuse.

Looking back at the metal horrors, it is the beady eyes that make the model so perfect.

That bloodcrusher is superior in every way to the metal version, I would even say it looks better than the 2ed juggernaut.

Hypthesis
22-05-2010, 11:21
Imo GW went the right way with allowing different lores of Chaos to be drawn together in a same army, I mean, without any choice restriction: it is realistic/fluffic.
Indeed, thou Chaos has different faces, and all may dislike/hate/fight each other in the realms of chaos, they still can make pacts with each others without any restriction (and is very coherent with the nature of chaos: use any mean to an end), when they go out for any purpose (find an ancient relic, invade reality, crush some race, and so on).
The only reverse effect of it should be in terms of game, not in list building. Obv an army with different gods must be less reliable in terms of unity than one from only one god. That's actually what happend when Skarbrand attacked Necroth and made the win for the demon army become a loss. Ofc this kind of dis-unity should be decreased with the leadership skills of the general, I might believe some demons are ironwill enough to lead a army from each of the 4 gods without major problems.
Bound with another fact that is the very unreliable nature of the demons themselves, and their unstability in the real world, I would not be disappointed if some experimental psychology rules applied to demons ingame. Something like O&G animosity, or tyranid's behavior in W40k if you know it. That would represent the tendancies of minor demons to act in relation to their proper nature when they aren't dominated and bound together under the will of a strong leader.

Talos
22-05-2010, 11:22
I like the daemon prince and the changling. Fateweaver looks a bit rubbish I think. Seekers and horrors are nice and glad they are in plastic but not as good as the metals they are replacing.

Avian
22-05-2010, 11:28
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=cat1300072&section=&pIndex=2&aId=6800025a&start=3
*crosses fingers*

Sarevok
22-05-2010, 11:31
Ugh, I was hoping the daemonettes on the steeds wouldn't have such static poses.

Hypthesis
22-05-2010, 11:36
The are in my taste to much DE style alike. Looking like cold one knights...

Urgat
22-05-2010, 11:50
Ugh, I was hoping the daemonettes on the steeds wouldn't have such static poses.

My main gripe from the first time I saw them. They just sit there :/ Compare those to the boar riders, it's night and day really. Kairos is weird, not that he looks bad, but he looks like a conversion. take the wings, they really look like the generic plastic dragon wings with some feathers added on top.

Hypthesis
22-05-2010, 12:31
Kairos doesn't look like the enigmatic-extatic creature pictured in the book, for those who liked it. He looks more alike some vengeful Tomb King figure, hieratic as a statue. Very different interpretation of his return from the pit of knowledge.
It seems all like the modelers took the wording "blind" too literally: he actually is watching scenes from the past and the future.

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 12:40
Absolutely fantastic models, and I see some changes have been made to the Daemon Prince in his absense from the market. Good to see my skills of interpretation were well enough to pick out your man's clues 100%.

_Kawazu_
22-05-2010, 12:46
Don't really like the DP, crushers and horrors are fine.
The others are just bloody great! With those slaaneshi steeds you could do a lot of conversions...

Spike Fiend
22-05-2010, 14:32
Pink Horrors: Good, but a little "unchanging"...
Seekers: Excellent Steeds (although strangely short tails)! The Daemonettes is another matter, but we've been through that before when the ones on foot were released. :P
Bloodcrusher: Epic, just like the others from 7th (but it doesn't beat the one with the Lord!).
Daemon Prince: Can we have a Warhammer Daemon Prince?!?!?! O_O

In my opinion, Kairos doesn't look as good as the normal Lord of Change, but I don't care about Special Characters anyway...

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 14:35
Daemon Prince: Can we have a Warhammer Daemon Prince?!?!?! O_O


All Daemon kits cover both games.

Spike Fiend
22-05-2010, 14:39
That is definitely a 40K Daemon Prince... Look at all those space-suit pipes, or whatever it is!

Falkman
22-05-2010, 14:42
Yeah but it's also a plastic kit, meaning that what's shown in that picture isn't everything you can do with it. The kit will contain pieces to make a Fantasy prince as well.

Fredox
22-05-2010, 15:07
I'm a fan of just about everything except the new horrors. Thanks for finding the pics.

dax
22-05-2010, 15:34
Liking it all. I like the the Horrors I was expectig a mess but I like these and I'll have to get my Tzeentch Army going again.

Not wanting to derail the thread but I wonder if a foundation pink paint will be released to coincide with these as there currently is no pink in the paint range. Doesn't bother me either way as I have a custom mix for horror pink.

baphomael
22-05-2010, 15:34
That is definitely a 40K Daemon Prince... Look at all those space-suit pipes, or whatever it is!

Which is one configuration. Judging by all the pics of the plastic prince seen so far, it looks like the DP is going to be *very* customisable.

Seems there will be as stock body and legs (the body with the chaos star carved into it), with various head and weapon options, with additional armour plates (including the 40k armour plates) that can be attached to the 'naked' prince.


Not wanting to derail the thread but a wonder if a foundation pink paint will be released to coincide with these as there currently is no pink in the paint range. Doesn't bother me either way as I have a custom mix for horror pink.

I've found ball red over white gives a nice 'horror' pink. Plus, its nice and quick :p

Desert Rain
22-05-2010, 15:43
Kairos, changeling and seekers are great. The other ones are good but not as good as those 3.

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 15:50
That is definitely a 40K Daemon Prince... Look at all those space-suit pipes, or whatever it is!

And? That is one picture. The kit makes several configurations, having different heads, weapons, arms, and bodies, and also includes wings.

ogretyrant
22-05-2010, 15:56
Imo GW went the right way with allowing different lores of Chaos to be drawn together in a same army, I mean, without any choice restriction: it is realistic/fluffic.


I would like to see instead of the 3 different chaos books, one for each chaos powers, that would allow for completely unique units in each book, lots of fluff and completely different playing styles as well they could put a page in for 'allies' with another chaos power, with restrictions/negatives for different gods etc...

I know they would not do this for lots of reasons so no need to reply say 'oh no they wouldt do that because....' just wishlisting really.

baphomael
22-05-2010, 16:50
All Daemon kits cover both games.

Except the soulgrinder ;)

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 17:02
Except the soulgrinder ;)

Touche.

On another note, am I the only one that thinks those Horror models look like they are metal and not plastic? The way the joints are etc. just look more majestic than what is on most plastics.

fattdex
22-05-2010, 17:22
Look plastic to me- looks like a plastic multi part assembly type of thing where the arms join the body behind the head, and the tongues would need to be a seperate bit too it looks like.

Ramius4
22-05-2010, 17:36
I'm thinking they're plastics too. The feathers are too thin for most metal sculpts to pull off.

It looks to me as if the bodies are one piece. The head appears to attach to that as a separate piece possibly along with the arms. The tongues are probably separate too.

I doubt if they'll be very poseable.

Tymell
22-05-2010, 20:54
Thanks loads for the pics :D

A bit of a mixed bag IMO

That new bloodcrusher is fantastic.

Changeling and the daemon prince (judging by that and earlier pics) are good, I like them. In fact, that new prince pic is really selling it for me, previously I'd been a little unconvinced.

Kairos is kind of average, it's not bad, but it's a bit bland/uninspired for a special character.

The horrors I'm not so keen on. Maybe it's just those two models that are a bit off, but the current ones look much more Tzeentch/chaotic than those.

The seekers are a bit meh too. The steeds themselves are quite nice, but the riders are static, and the current daemonettes still pale in comparison to the previous metal ones IMO.

baphomael
22-05-2010, 20:58
The horrors I'm not so keen on. Maybe it's just those two models that are a bit off, but the current ones look much more Tzeentch/chaotic than those. But hey, maybe it's just those ones.



I think its because these ones look a little too...'stable'. Some of the current ones (especially the sculpts of the horror with another horror face bursting out its mouth) give a sense that their bodies are constantly warping and changing, folding in on itself or splitting apart to reveal another form.

These ones dont quite give than impression...their 'mutations' seem a bit too static.

Tymell
22-05-2010, 21:04
I think its because these ones look a little too...'stable'. Some of the current ones (especially the sculpts of the horror with another horror face bursting out its mouth) give a sense that their bodies are constantly warping and changing, folding in on itself or splitting apart to reveal another form.

These ones dont quite give than impression...their 'mutations' seem a bit too static.

Exactly, the current metal ones look like they're continually warping and flowing. I look at them and envisage a horror not so much running as having another one flow from itself in one step, then again in the next, on and on. They really convey that sense of change.

But you never know, maybe these just aren't good examples.

Also worth noting: DPA proves his accuracy again ;)

Ramius4
22-05-2010, 21:22
Also worth noting: DPA proves his flawless accuracy again ;)

Fixed that for you:p DPA if you're out there, thanks.

Kalandros
22-05-2010, 21:22
Pink Horrors:
Terrible terrible new sculpts, they are not the chaotic ever changing manifestations the current metal horrors depict. They now look like squigs with arms and sometimes a beak?

BORING 0/5

Seekers of Slaanesh:
Mixed feelings, they look a bit too different from other daemons - out of place - They look too normal, compared to how the bloodcrushers are standing on their juggernaut, these gals are just sitting around lazily on their slim snakes. The old OOP models had more feral daemonettes standing ready to leap into their foes... so I give this a

3/5 - Tolerable but could have been much better

Daemon Prince, Changeling, Fateweaver - I have no opinion on them.


Bloodcrusher:
Plastic? Hell yes! But they are still a bit too weak in fantasy to be of any real danger ESPECIALLY in 8th edition! They won't break ranks, they won't really break units as all infantry will be stubborn against them and get a ton of attacks back - meaning many dead crushers fast.

New model is good, edition change kills this unit. So I guess its Plastic Herald time! :D

4.5/5 or 3/5 depending if there are command options available or not.

DaemonReign
22-05-2010, 21:25
Just incase the pics have not yet been posted-

I love fateweaver a lot!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=cat1300072&section=&pIndex=2&aId=6800025a&start=3 by the way

Oh darn... Well there goes my August-sallary... :D

Spike Fiend
22-05-2010, 21:48
Yeah but it's also a plastic kit, meaning that what's shown in that picture isn't everything you can do with it. The kit will contain pieces to make a Fantasy prince as well.


Which is one configuration. Judging by all the pics of the plastic prince seen so far, it looks like the DP is going to be *very* customisable.


And? That is one picture. The kit makes several configurations, having different heads, weapons, arms, and bodies, and also includes wings.

Ah... Well, that's good news! (:

Tyranno1
22-05-2010, 22:21
4.5/5 or 3/5 depending if there are command options available or not

Wether they come with the option or not, them being plastic will let you just swap one of the bloodletter kits fantastic command onto it easily.


This update has gone fairly unoticed to me, but wow am I glad I found out about it!

Kairos = Really nice, looks very similer to the artwork and will provide a nice base for anyone who wants to convert a slightly different Tzeentch greater deamon. Hands are a little too big though in my opinion, although it could be the angle or how its holding its staff.


Changling = Fantastic. Brilliant. I love this sculpt, like Kairos it matchs the artwork and just looks generally well sculpted. And its really nicely posed to, a sort of twisted version of a flamer.


Horrors = Hmmmm, I am a bit iffy with this. The one on the lefts hands I do not like. I like the bird theame the right one has, although the lack of head tendrils and internal horrors is a bit of a downer (although there could be a plastic option for it). But the ability to mix and match their parts and convert them so easily will make them a nice kit.


Steeds = These seem to be more detailed than their foot counterparts, although I never was a huge fan of the plastic ones design. There could be some interesting kitbashs, as the weapons, command and heads seem very different and could make some more variations to a second daemonette unit a player has.

The steeds however I really do like, they look like the skin of the old one on the body of the 6th ed one. Really detailed and very streamlined. I dont play daemons but I will be picking a box of these up for my WOC characters (and to get some round cavelry bases for my 40K army).


Daemon prince = I liked him back in the WOC book and I still like him now, and its good to see he has a better head option too. I think this model will encourage me to use him in my warriors army.


Bloodcrushers = I did not belive this until I saw it 0.0. This is fantastic, it looks just like they cast the metal model in plastic, but with even more details on some of the blander spots. Will be picking one up for my warriors again.

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 22:35
Bloodcrusher:
Plastic? Hell yes! But they are still a bit too weak in fantasy to be of any real danger ESPECIALLY in 8th edition! They won't break ranks, they won't really break units as all infantry will be stubborn against them and get a ton of attacks back - meaning many dead crushers fast.


Have you been following the same rumours as everyone else? Crushers are monstrous cavalry and so get the extra stomp attacks on top of what they already have, and should you choose it they can get a rank so that they may break ranks, in which case they are still making full attacks from the second rank. Many dead crushers? 3+AS and 5+ ward is plenty resilient along with 2W. Oh, and they can killing blow everything apart from monsters like Giants and Dragons. Of course you can add a Herald to the mix for Hatred, and the new fear mechanic also means their opponents could be left at WS1 and A1 (which for the Crushers is much better than the old mechanic since they hardly ever outnumbered anyway). Taking this all into account, I'd say they are pretty tasty.

Kalandros
22-05-2010, 22:43
If being on a 50mm base is all it takes to determine that they are Monstrous, then fine.
Else the rules are clear: they are CAVALRY.

4+ Armor save btw

If you take 8 crushers (cause lets face it, you need 6 crushers minimum 3 wide IF they are Monstrous like Ogres and not Cavalry like well.. like they are right now! and taking only 6 at start - you lose 1 and you cant break ranks anymore) you're looking at 560pts minimum before command options

And I'm guessing adding a Herald when facing cannons is a good way to waste 200 pts - no look out sire much

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 22:46
Well from what I've heard the 8th edition book lists them as monstrous cavalry.

Kalandros
22-05-2010, 22:56
Also apparently the killing blow rumors weren't exactly true for different sizes?
But with Unit Strength gone, Crushers might get immune to killing blow since they won't be normal cavalry I guess~

GodlessM
22-05-2010, 23:20
Also apparently the killing blow rumors weren't exactly true for different sizes?
But with Unit Strength gone, Crushers might get immune to killing blow since they won't be normal cavalry I guess~

Don't know where you picked that one up as ULF's review of the demos says that the rumour was correct.

Ludaman
22-05-2010, 23:31
Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Apparently still works as normal. There is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.

^from Ulfs post:
I take this as Killing Blow is the same as now, only there is a heroic killing blow rule added, I presume they will add this into future army books and perhaps errata it into a couple of the current ones... Can ogres killing blow ogres in 7th?

Zaustus
23-05-2010, 00:38
Can ogres killing blow ogres in 7th?

Nope. Off the top of my head, the only instance of KB working on something with US > 2 is the Bretonnian virtue that lets you KB large targets.

Of course, with US going away I'm not sure how KB will be worded in 8th.

GodlessM
23-05-2010, 00:41
Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Apparently still works as normal. There is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.

^from Ulfs post:
I take this as Killing Blow is the same as now, only there is a heroic killing blow rule added, I presume they will add this into future army books and perhaps errata it into a couple of the current ones... Can ogres killing blow ogres in 7th?

Actually it is rather clear that this is confirming the rumour as correct. "Killing blows against models in similar size catagory or lower", i.e. Bloodcrushers can KB Ogres etc. or anything smaller. This is a lot different to KB man-sized models only. Heroic KB means things like an Elf can KB an Ogre or bigger.

Ludaman
23-05-2010, 00:59
The first part was a direct copy from grimstones post. Ulf then goes on to say it still functions as normal this leads me to believe that hasn't in fact changed. Maybe we should ask? :)

HiveTrygon
23-05-2010, 01:25
I may collect demons again, horrors much to my old school love like the new letters. Daemonettes on steeds great, only thing I could use would be the plague bearers redone but honestly the new ones are good enough. Now thinking new army after selling all my stuff off.

MalusCalibur
23-05-2010, 01:42
My take on the new models:

Daemon Prince: From what I've seen of the different builds, the thing isn't bad. Nice to have one a)in plastic, and b)that isn't a total abomination like the old Fantasy one that's been knocking around for donkeys years. It still doesn't even come close to Be'Lakor, though.

Karios Fateweaver: Well, he already loses points for being a special character model, and he is just so very, very boring. Nothing stands out about him at all.

Changeling: Looks like the artwork. Always thought that bird staff was his head. Overall, not bad.

Horrors: Blech! What is this obsession with replacing lovely old Daemon models with terrible new ones? The metal Daemonettes and Horrors were/are superb. They didn't/don't need replacing, just converting the same sculpt to plastic. Horrible, in the wrong sense.

Seekers: So they take the ugly new Daemonettes and blandly stick them on fat, badly posed Steeds of Slaanesh? No thanks.

Bloodcrusher: Absolutely gorgeous. The metal one on its own was excellent, but this is just...wow. I'll be scouring eBay for some of these a few months down the line, I can tell you.

Ramius4
23-05-2010, 01:42
The first part was a direct copy from grimstones post. Ulf then goes on to say it still functions as normal this leads me to believe that hasn't in fact changed. Maybe we should ask? :)

That's the way I took it too. It seemed like ULF was saying that KB doesn't change, then going on to mention that there's something called 'heroic killing blow'. But he doesn't make any further mention of it or what it might be.

I can only speculate that 'heroic killing blow' is something similar to the Bretonnian virtue or is the source of the KB rumors for various classifications of models.

Mictlan
23-05-2010, 04:06
About the seekers, the problem i have with them its not that the riders look static, though its unfiting of demons to be so calm, but the fact that from a sculptural point of view they have zero interaction with their rides, one cannot feel the weight being deposited in their steeds nor their feet clutching to their sides, or see them using the steeds bodies to propel themselves foward againsts their preys.

In conclusion they seem very out of place,as if someone with poor photoshop skills had used an image of the foot version of the daemonetes and pasted it on top of the steeds

Skozo
23-05-2010, 05:02
The seekers aren't too bad in my opinion and the daemon prince looks kinda better that the original shown in the WoC book. The horrors as expected though look just as bad as the rest of the plastic troops: not very well proportioned and cartoonish looking. So far the daemons have no plastic troop set that has me sold. The bloodcrushers look exactly like the metal versions with slighty more variation. I may get one just to stick some of my metal bloodletters on it.

MasterSlowPoke
23-05-2010, 05:19
Seekers: Excellent Steeds (although strangely short tails)! The Daemonettes is another matter, but we've been through that before when the ones on foot were released. :P
Bloodcrusher: Epic, just like the others from 7t

The short tails are so they can rank up.

Vermin-thing
23-05-2010, 05:25
Oh wow. I like all of the new stuff allot, even more so the horrors. Looks like I'm going to have to do my 40k Tzeentch daemons.

Justicar Valius
23-05-2010, 14:19
My WoC will get one new Daemon Prince (which is one kit, look at the legs and thigh armour) and my Grey Knights will get some spare daemon bits to go on their bases.

I also love the changeling model, 3 arms on one side never looked so natural!
Bloodcrushers are very nice indeed.
Seekers are rubbish, steeds good, riders down right... well I won't say the rest.

Horrors and fateweaver get a fully fledged meh. Fateweaver at least looks like how I imagined it.

Dai-Mongar
23-05-2010, 17:57
Wow! These piccies slipped in without me noticing.
I love the new 'crusher, still haven't put together the metal ones I bought, so maybe I can sell them before August and buy plastics instead.
Also liking the Horrors. A good mix of the old (them wierd fingers!) and new (them wierd tentacley bits!).

Suicide Messiah
23-05-2010, 19:17
Originally Posted by Spike Fiend
Seekers: Excellent Steeds (although strangely short tails)! The Daemonettes is another matter, but we've been through that before when the ones on foot were released. :P
Bloodcrusher: Epic, just like the others from 7t
The short tails are so they can rank up.

No. They've always had short tails. Check out slaves to darkness.

Quetzl
23-05-2010, 19:27
I'm liking the new figs quite a lot actually, I've really liked the Daemon Prince from the off and this new pic sells it even more. I've been dubious about the Seekers after seeing those resin pics, but they're not as bad as I thought they were going to be. I agree with the people above that the riders look a little too static and unrealistic, but I think the mounts look awesome, perhaps with a little repositioning of the rider they might look a little better. On the other hand the Bloodcrusher is awesome! If it is plastic then I reacon it's one of the best mini's I've seen in a real longtime, they're obviously planning to sell a hell of a lot of them.

The Horrors, however, are a little bit of a mess... I think it's a little early to tell if they are really that poor, perhaps when we see a ranked up unit with full command and a better colour scheme than PINK! we'll be able to decide just how good they are. But for the moment, I think they're a bit of an eye sore :shifty:

Kairos is awesome, really nice to see that they're releasing one of the most infamous characters in the game :D It will at least make me slightly happy to see an actual Kairos model across the board 6 turns before I get magiced of the table. The Changeling's pretty cool too, he looks really original and different, I think he'll be used in a lot of Daemon armies as a Herald cause he's that good!

So pricing what dya'll reacon? I'll hazard a guess at this:
1 Daemon Prince - £20 *Due to amount of proposed extra bits*
10 Horrors of Tzentch - £12-£15
5 Slaanesh Seekers - £15
1 Bloodcrusher - £12-£18
Kairos - £35-£40
Changeling - £8-£12

Your pale companion
23-05-2010, 19:45
I don't know why we needed a third juggy?
The horrors look a lot worse than the metals ones which is a shame.
The changeling is nice.
Fateweaver could be better, but he is still decent.

Dai-Mongar
23-05-2010, 20:31
I don't know why we needed a third juggy?


Apparently because it's plastic.
From the picture I can't really tell though, someone confirm/deny?

Avian
23-05-2010, 20:35
It's plastic, yeah.

Your pale companion
23-05-2010, 20:37
Oh well then I understand :D

EDIT: And will actually buy 3 :P:P:P

Dai-Mongar
23-05-2010, 20:45
Wheee!
I might actually get around to possibly assembling them then, maybe.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
23-05-2010, 21:02
So pricing what dya'll reacon? I'll hazard a guess at this:
1 Daemon Prince - £20 *Due to amount of proposed extra bits*
10 Horrors of Tzentch - £12-£15
5 Slaanesh Seekers - £15
1 Bloodcrusher - £12-£18
Kairos - £35-£40
Changeling - £8-£12

I would think that crushers would be 3 for £30, that would fit in with recent monster releases like minotaurs and river trolls, as well as killa kans and raveners for 40K.

Nixon

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:16
I love the current horrors so the new ones will need to be alot better than those 2 to be an improvement imo, plastic or not. They look more like the old old horrors which weren't exactly the most dynamic models.
I agree Kairos looks a little dull, perhaps different angles will give it an edge. It really annoys me that GW and FW always make Lords of change models look like birds, when their fluff has ALWAYS said that their appearance changes from one moment to the next, forever changing. So unlikely they all look like a bird.
The changeling I love, nice for what it is and its obvious conversion potential.
The Daemon prince is the best I've seen it look, not sure if theyve put new bits on the sprue to make this version or not, but it is nice, (though as they can all fly it does seem odd not to give it wings in fantasy).
The seekers, whilst I agree could look less static, are really nice. streamlined and agile looking, the mounts look like how the older ones should have

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:24
So pricing what dya'll reacon? I'll hazard a guess at this:
1 Daemon Prince - £20 *Due to amount of proposed extra bits*
10 Horrors of Tzentch - £12-£15
5 Slaanesh Seekers - £15
1 Bloodcrusher - £12-£18
Kairos - £35-£40
Changeling - £8-£12

Is Kairos definitely "greater daemon" size? His stats to me always suggested he wasn't, and the way the model is posed it doesn't look like to many pieces either to me
I'd expect 3 blood crushers for £30 personally if they (and they do look) plastic

GodlessM
23-05-2010, 21:24
Avian, any idea if these Crushers come in 1's or 3s???


Is Kairos definitely "greater daemon" size? His stats to me always suggested he wasn't, and the way the model is posed it doesn't look like to many pieces either to me
I'd expect 3 blood crushers for £30 personally if they (and they do look) plastic

Kairos is a Greater Daemon.

Avian
23-05-2010, 21:25
No idea whatsoever.

If asked to guess I'd say 3, but that's purely based on how similar models (Killa Kans, River Trolls) have been packages lately.

GodlessM
23-05-2010, 21:27
Seems like perfect logic to me. Cheers.

Avian
23-05-2010, 21:28
Is Kairos definitely "greater daemon" size?
Well, he has the Large Target special rule and the model appears to be about the same size as the normal Lord of Change (not counting the wings).

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:29
Avian, any idea if these Crushers come in 1's or 3s???



Kairos is a Greater Daemon.

It is a greater daemon, but is it the size of one?

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:30
Well, he has the Large Target special rule and the model appears to be about the same size as the normal Lord of Change (not counting the wings).
I was thinking it was hard to tell that, if that base is what they use for Terminator size models, all of a sudden it doesn't look so big. It just looks very close to being 1 piece to me. probably wrong but hey no point not asking

Quetzl
23-05-2010, 21:44
£27 quid for 3 Bloodcrushers ain't too bad a deal if I'm honest, sounds much more plausible too. As for Kairos I'm gonna suggest that he may be a little smaller than the Lord of Change, and is most likely Keeper size, but he'll probably be more expensive just like Azhag.

Spider
23-05-2010, 21:47
I don't know why we needed a third juggy?


Since i have a thing for the modern take on juggys, i am happy with any new models.

I see another unit joining my Khorne deamons asap.

To hell with weather or not its a good choice. lol.

Avian
23-05-2010, 21:47
I was thinking it was hard to tell that, if that base is what they use for Terminator size models, all of a sudden it doesn't look so big. It just looks very close to being 1 piece to me. probably wrong but hey no point not asking
That is a 60 mm base. Terminator bases are 40 mm.

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:50
That is a 60 mm base. Terminator bases are 40 mm.

Howd you tell? just enquiring

Ramius4
23-05-2010, 21:54
Howd you tell? just enquiring

Compare the relative thickness of the base to the width. It's very easy to tell.

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 21:57
Since i have a thing for the modern take on juggys, i am happy with any new models.

I see another unit joining my Khorne deamons asap.

To hell with weather or not its a good choice. lol.

Isn't it likely the metal ones will disappear, leaving just the 3 plastics and the WoC one?

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 22:00
Compare the relative thickness of the base to the width. It's very easy to tell.

Ok cool. I still think it looks like its 1 main body piece, front head, arm/hand holding staff and 1 piece wings separate. That would be a bit of a poor GD size kit imo

Kalandros
23-05-2010, 22:03
I think Crushers may be packed 1 per box.

Schmapdi
23-05-2010, 22:15
Hmm, some good some bad here.

The horrors aren't as nice as the metal ones, but considering it'd be very hard to make interchangable amorphous blobs ala the metal horrors. Well, I'd say they turned out as good as could be expected.

The Seekers are dissapointing imo - it looks like they just plunked some standard daemonettes onto the back of some now boobless boobworms and called it a day. They don't look like they are actually "riding" them imo.

Everything else looks nice.

GodlessM
23-05-2010, 22:21
It is a greater daemon, but is it the size of one?

Surely you answered your own question! Don't get into silly semantics.

Coggy
23-05-2010, 23:09
not to cause anything, but why would they make the rest of the one off special characters "smaller" in statue but make the special character for Tzeentch the same size as the lord of change. again im not trying to start anything but my bet is being slightly smaller than the current lord of change.......more of the Epidemius size and price range( i know not that much different). i dont think its enough to stop people from using kairos as the lord of change but i cant see GW ( even though they arent very predictable) making a model thats a replacement for the lord of change without trying to cash i on it also. but TBH the models arent out and all this is idle speculation so.... meh
of course i may be hoping kairos is smaller cause i want to buy one so theres that also.
looking at the pics below Kairos does look a little bit smaller even with the wings but it may be that the LOC is spread out more

kairos
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89788&d=1274541048

LOC
http://www.coolminiornot.com/248395


oh and just to be clear i think kairos is on a 60 mm base just a head or so smaller than the loc. like a mini me loc

NixonAsADaemonPrince
23-05-2010, 23:11
Surely you answered your own question! Don't get into silly semantics.

That's a good point Godless, that like saying "it is a greater demon, but is it really a greater demon?". (If you have seen the might boosh then you will understand)

On topic, if the crushers do get a 50% cut and go 3 for £27, then I'm definitely buying a couple of sets, that model looks brilliant.

Nixon

O&G'sRule
23-05-2010, 23:44
Surely you answered your own question! Don't get into silly semantics.

Just because the rules are for a greater daemon, doesn't mean Gw have to make the model a certain size, FW prove that point

Tymell
23-05-2010, 23:58
Surely you answered your own question! Don't get into silly semantics.


That's a good point Godless, that like saying "it is a greater demon, but is it really a greater demon?"

(As O&G says) I think Forge World would have something to say about that... ;)

Dai-Mongar
24-05-2010, 02:15
Isn't it likely the metal ones will disappear, leaving just the 3 plastics and the WoC one?

Not if they can still sell metal ones through direct only as "classic" Bloodcrushers.

Ghazbad_Facestompa
24-05-2010, 03:10
Looks like I'll be starting Khornate WoC next, seeing as there's a good plastic daemon prince and a great plastic juggernaut now.

loveless
24-05-2010, 05:15
Well, here's some nickel work since I can't be bothered to give it the one dollar treatment.

Studio pictures...Epidemius added to get the general square-to-circle ratio close-ish.

Crappy quality, because - as implied - I put little effort in.

He looks to be a decent size.

Coggy
24-05-2010, 05:30
dang that does kind of put things in perspective.
always thought epidimus was smaller and the loc bigger but .... hmmm
still hoping fateweaver is cheaper .....but hes probably not

mrtn
24-05-2010, 09:26
Isn't it likely the metal ones will disappear, leaving just the 3 plastics and the WoC one?

The use the metal one to represent a herald in that article, so I think they may sell it as a mounted herald.

Spiney Norman
24-05-2010, 10:42
Well, not that I play daemons, but everything bar the new horrors looks fine and dandy. Whoever it was that compared them to squigs wasn't at all wrong, they look like starved squigs with arms...

The metals are a million times better than this, what on earth were they thinking. I really hope the other 8 poses are better than these (and seriously, what's with the BEAK??? ).

Regarding the seekers, the steeds are phenomenal, I mean really awesome, but the riders are pretty lacking. Hopefully nothing a fairly creative kit-bash with the plastic daemonettes box wont be able to fix.

Blood crusher is cool, looks pretty identicle to the metal, at least there'll be some variation in the jugger's pose now, and with any luck it might be a bit cheaper (I'm guessing something like 3 for £30).

Kairos is good, certainly much better than the standard citadel LoC and shows what they could do with the GD models if they wanted to redo them all. The old ones are so dated, esp the BT.

And finally, the "sheer genius" prize for this release goes to... the changeling, awesomeness on a stick

Avian
24-05-2010, 11:35
The use the metal one to represent a herald in that article, so I think they may sell it as a mounted herald.
That metal one IS sold as a herald already. You can see the metal trooper in the khornate sample army picture.

Witchblade
24-05-2010, 15:04
The new models look exactly like they should look according to the fluff. I like.

decker_cky
24-05-2010, 16:02
The metals are a million times better than this, what on earth were they thinking. I really hope the other 8 poses are better than these (and seriously, what's with the BEAK??? ).

Maybe they wanted to include some of the iconic tzeentch imagery on the basic tzeentch troop? The beak is the one part of those models I really like.


Regarding the seekers, the steeds are phenomenal, I mean really awesome, but the riders are pretty lacking. Hopefully nothing a fairly creative kit-bash with the plastic daemonettes box wont be able to fix.

I think these will be salvageable with some better posing on the riders. It's a pity they didn't make them side mounted.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
24-05-2010, 18:05
Nice Sig Avian.

On topic: IMO those new horrors aren't great, a bit OTT, but I do like the price being cut, (as I'm assuming they will be 10 for £15) and they will be easier to convert.

With a bit of remodelling I think the seekers will be ok, though they aren't really up to the current standard of sculpts, which is disappointing.

Nixon

InfiniteLoop
24-05-2010, 19:43
According to my source, there ARE nurgle plastics in the works aslo :angel: