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PelsBoble
25-05-2005, 18:27
Ok im just wondering about some different rules.

First off, the Ogre leadbelchers:

They need to stay put for 1 turn of the game to reload their cannons. Can they reload their cannons in a turn they rally? Like they cant move so i guess it would be cool if theycould do something useful that turn.

Then the Book of secrets. This makes your non sorcerer char a lvl 1 sorc. So does he generate 1 dispell and 1 power dice? And does he get a wound from for example a hellcannon misfire (which can give 1 wound to all sorcerors on the battle field)

Also a question about the Deamonic mounts in the chaos army. When i mount my char on for example a steed of slaneesh. Is the steed a large target? Also does the steed take a monster reaction (like dragons) if the rider is slain?

And finally would the bindings of slaneesh allow me to target a slann in a temple guard unit?

Thanks for your help :)

Selsaral
25-05-2005, 20:12
I'll answer what I know.

Yes to all your questions on the Book of Secrets, afaik.

None of the daemonic mounts (including the god-specific ones like the mount of slannesh) are large targets. But yes, they do need to take a monster reaction roll if the rider is slain.

athamas
25-05-2005, 20:26
for the orges, dont you rally at the end of the turn, after a compulsery movement at the start, resulting in you not standing still... or am i forgetting turn sequence..

large targets are only large targets if it states so in their profile, in the case of a steed of slanesh, its just a monsterous mount...

so yes monster reaction is needed!

Lordmonkey
25-05-2005, 20:39
They need to stay put for 1 turn of the game to reload their cannons. Can they reload their cannons in a turn they rally? Like they cant move so i guess it would be cool if theycould do something useful that turn.


Yes, and I quote page 33 of the oger Kingdoms book under Leadbelcher Cannon, 3rd paragraph: "Once a unit of Leadbelchers has opened fire, it may not fire again for the rest of the game unless the Ogre unit spends an entire turn stationary and out of base-to-base contact with the enemy (a turn spent rallying also counts)."



Then the Book of secrets. This makes your non sorcerer char a lvl 1 sorc. So does he generate 1 dispell and 1 power dice? And does he get a wound from for example a hellcannon misfire (which can give 1 wound to all sorcerors on the battle field)


If it makes the character a level 1 sorceror, then yes, he is in all respects a wizard for such purposes. However, should the item be somehow removed or destroyed, he would lose his spellcasting status and therefore no longer be a sorceror.



Also a question about the Deamonic mounts in the chaos army. When i mount my char on for example a steed of slaneesh. Is the steed a large target? Also does the steed take a monster reaction (like dragons) if the rider is slain?


Yes, a Steed of Slaanesh is a large target. However, when the rider is slain they become subject to daemonic instability. There is no monster reaction for daemon steeds of any type.



And finally would the bindings of slaneesh allow me to target a slann in a temple guard unit?


Yep.

Hope this helps! :p

PelsBoble
25-05-2005, 20:47
Ah great replies :)

Ofc some answers contradict eachoter. Tho Lord Monkey seems to know his chaos very good. If any one has proof that what he says is wrong, please say so :)

anarchistica
25-05-2005, 23:06
There is no monster reaction for daemon steeds of any type.
As far as i know they take a check as normal.

PelsBoble
25-05-2005, 23:26
Are there any references to this rule? Because i cant find it in the horde of chaos book.

Lordmonkey
26-05-2005, 02:40
If you look under "Daemon Steeds" somewhere in the Hordes of Chaos bestiary it describes the instability tests when riders are slain. (cant find my book atm, cant quote a page number). Steeds of other gods (Steeds of slaanesh, Juggernauts, etc) are daemonic monster mounts, being fielded on 50x50mm bases, and are therefore subject to the instability rules of a normal daemon steed.

anarchistica
26-05-2005, 02:48
Yes, but why do you say they don't take a Monster Reaction test?

taer
26-05-2005, 03:55
They do take a monster reaction test as normal because they are ridden monsters. They aren't immune because they are daemons or for being unstable (monster reaction isn't a psychology test. Keep in mind, some monster reactions can over-ride the steeds instability, like the one where it stays over the body of its master and becomes unbreakable.) However, Lordmonkey is incorrect in stating that a steed of slaanesh is a large target. None of the daemonic mounts are large target, nor are daemon princes/exalted daemons. In fact, the only large targets in chaos armies are Greater Daemons, Giants, Shaggoths, and (I think, but I might be wrong) the Hellcannon.

athamas
26-05-2005, 09:10
taer is right, [well i siad it first!]

things are only large targrets IF IT SAYS THEY ARE IN THEIR PROFILE!


under special rules, like is says under dragon....

PelsBoble
26-05-2005, 09:34
Ok. So i guess the steeds question is cleared up now :) But since they are roughly bigger than a regular warhorse, do a khornelord on a juggernaught get the lookout sir rule in a unit of 5+ knights?

anarchistica
26-05-2005, 12:56
Keep in mind, some monster reactions can over-ride the steeds instability, like the one where it stays over the body of its master and becomes unbreakable.)
Does that override it? I'm not so sure, probably not.


Ok. So i guess the steeds question is cleared up now :) But since they are roughly bigger than a regular warhorse, do a khornelord on a juggernaught get the lookout sir rule in a unit of 5+ knights?
Basically, you can go by base size.

The following are the "same size" for the 5" rule and 'Look Out, Sir'.

20*20/25*25 mm
25*40 mm
40*40/50*50 mm

Large Targets and Swarms don't count for it (except Lesser Swarms for Tehenhauin).

So you Khorne Lord doesn't get a LO, S with the Knights but would if he was in a unit of 5 or more Trolls/Ogres/etc.

taer
26-05-2005, 17:06
Does that override it? I'm not so sure, probably not.


Yes, the result where the creature becomes unbreakable does negate the demonic instability, since demonic instability is taken instead of a break test, but with unbreakable you don't take any such tests. However, it doesn't really make much of a difference since all the daemonic mounts kinda suck on their own and can't move/really do anything on that particular result. They aren't dragons afterall ;)

anarchistica
26-05-2005, 22:22
Oh dear, this argument again. :p

We had a big discussion about this a while ago and the conclusion was that Unbreakable troops still take break tests, they just can't break. The discussion was related to Tomb Swarms who are both Undead and Unbreakable.

So Daemonic Mounts would take a break test and thus take an instability check.

Lordmonkey
26-05-2005, 23:06
Ok, I got the large target thing wrong, my bad :p

However, a Daemon steed, being on a 50 x 50mm base, may indeed be picked out from a unit of knights by any shooting weapon (this is why archaon isnt so good vs shooty armies).

And as for the instability, just looked over the rules and it doesn't say anywhere that deamons are exempt from monster reaction tests. They are therefore subject to instability tests, AND monster reaction tests when the rider is slain.

PelsBoble
27-05-2005, 12:02
Ah great. Thanks all for clearing these thing up for me :)

Harrisondaly
04-06-2005, 16:20
it says in the OK book that a rally does count as a turn stood still so therfore does count as them reloading

anarchistica
04-06-2005, 21:58
it says in the OK book that a rally does count as a turn stood still so therfore does count as them reloading
Ogre Kingdoms army book, page 33, under 'Leadbelcher Cannon', 3rd paragraph: "Once a unit of Leadbelchers has opened fire, it may not fire again for the rest of the game unless the Ogre unit spends an entire turn stationary and out of base-to-base contact with the enemy (a turn spent rallying also counts)."

Read the thread before you reply. Not to mention checking the relevant rules when replying to a rules question.

PelsBoble
05-06-2005, 10:49
I just read the slaneesh lore, and found that the spell 6 that gives any friendly unit the ability of beeing unbreakable, clearly states that the this causes deamons not to have to take the instability test. Wouldnt this mean that if you get the monster reaction "unbreakable" that you dont need to take the instability test?

Lordmonkey
05-06-2005, 12:00
No, since the daemon steed is unbreakable anyway. Instability (like undead crumbling) still applies.

Flame
05-06-2005, 13:59
No, since the daemon steed is unbreakable anyway. Instability (like undead crumbling) still applies.

Since when have deamons been unbreakable?

Instability, in this case, would not occur, as this replaces the instability rule (Read the HOC book for the specific rule)

PelsBoble
05-06-2005, 14:08
Yeah im with flame on this one. At least it seems very clear that the instability test is ruled out by the unbreakable rule

anarchistica
05-06-2005, 15:53
Yeah im with flame on this one. At least it seems very clear that the instability test is ruled out by the unbreakable rule
No it isn't. However, if you cast Delecious Excruciation, the Daemonic Instability is replaced by Unbreakable. In any other case, Unbreakable models still take break tests so are still subject to Crumbling/Daemonic Instability. Further proof of this has been given with the Zombie Pirates rule, which has Razortooth Rats. These guys have Swarm stats and rules (can't be joined by characters, skirmish). They are not Swarms and thus not Unbreakable. As this list is newer than the TK list, it seems GW has picked up on the Tomb Swarm confusion and stopped listing Undead Swarms as being Swarms/Unbreakable.

Flame
05-06-2005, 19:30
Pelsboble, apologies, but I only meant in this case (because it uses the word 'replaced'). In other cases, unbreakable IMO does not overide other rules, such as tomb swarms.

PelsBoble
06-06-2005, 00:27
:)

Ok so even if you get the unbreakable monster reaction you have to take the instability test :/

That is just bad news ;)