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Wolf 11x
20-05-2010, 14:41
Example: Vanilla marines vs. vanilla marines

I feel the games always end up very boring and depend entirely on mismatched lists.

Deetwo
20-05-2010, 14:44
No, why would you?
Except maybe Necron vs Necron, most armies are varied enough to be interesting games in "mirror" matches.
Even two perfectly identical lists can be fun and very challenging in it's own way.

But then again, I've rarely played a game where I had the luxury of choosing not to :)

marv335
20-05-2010, 14:45
No.
And I'll tell you why.
Facing an identical army is actually a better test of your skills than anything else.
If you both have the same tools available, the only difference is player skill.

That aside, I play Orks, what is more fluffy than Orks fighting each other?

Mannimarco
20-05-2010, 14:46
no but I do like to have a laugh with people when I see it happening on the table next to me.

Just recently I saw an ultramarine army led by vulkan fighting an unpainted army led by vulkan. I said sombody is gonna have to have a word with corax when he gets back, the guy left the door to the cloning lab open and now the salamanders have succeded where the raven guard failed

Wade Wilson
20-05-2010, 14:47
I have yet to play nids vs nids and i would love to give it a shot!

I play Dark Angels too but if i know i am going to play other marines i try and write up a DeathRavenwing list to keep it a bit different.

DarkMatter2
20-05-2010, 14:53
The only time it came up, I did. Guard vs. Guard doesn't seem that interesting to me.

Thud
20-05-2010, 15:01
No, I would not refuse, but it's not exactly my dream scenario either.

Lord Damocles
20-05-2010, 15:25
Except maybe Necron vs Necron
Just thinking about the levels of tedium involved makes me drowsy...
*yawn*

Vaktathi
20-05-2010, 15:28
If you both have the same tools available, the only difference is player skill.


Or turn order :p Playing two identical armies that rely on the same strategy (e.g. Turn 1 Alpha Strike IG, Reserve denial skimmerspam eldar, etc.) will end up relying on turn order and dice rolling at least as much as player skill.



That said, I would never refuse a game against the same army, however I much prefer to play different armies, typically, I find them much more to my liking.

Meriwether
20-05-2010, 15:33
Or turn order :p Playing two identical armies that rely on the same strategy (e.g. Turn 1 Alpha Strike IG, Reserve denial skimmerspam eldar, etc.) will end up relying on turn order and dice rolling at least as much as player skill.

...except that all of a sudden your alpha strike army might want to start off in reserve because you have a 5-in-6 chance of your opponent going first with his alpha strike army...

I like situations where armies built for one particular tactic end up having to adjust.

OT: No, I don't refuse to play anyone who isn't a jerk.

Commandojimbob
20-05-2010, 15:34
Never happened to me as a Tau gamer but yes i would - Tau vs Tau is wrong on all levels. Played vs Tau on vassal the other night trying out a 1500pts Nids list - turns out he was tring out a gunline approach, suffice to say i got my butt whipped (i went lots of bugs, and it was DoW, so started way back).

Hypaspist
20-05-2010, 15:36
many of my games are mirror matches as the play group I play in tends to be strong on marines, and this weekend I have a green on green match up (so i immediately now its going to be an absolute scream because orks on orks is always fun!)

I don't object to these games, I think we all appreciate diversity, but i'd also rather play mirror, than not play at all... (I also enjoy beating Codex Marines with my Dark Angels, its very... satisfying :evilgrin:)

Skyros
20-05-2010, 15:37
I wouldn't refuse but if at all possible I would play someone else in the store who had a different army.

the_picto
20-05-2010, 16:18
If I didn't want to play against the same army, I'd never get to use my marines.

I've played eldar vs eldar and daemons vs daemons before. We had different enough list to keep it interesting though.

Vaktathi
20-05-2010, 16:27
...except that all of a sudden your alpha strike army might want to start off in reserve because you have a 5-in-6 chance of your opponent going first with his alpha strike army... which may or may not work well with that army list, thus forcing a relatively more importance on good dice rolls and skillful play on the player that didn't go first (the first player can play nowhere near as well and still make out better), making that roll to see who goes first very important. Likewise, for two reserve denial skimmerspam armies, whoever goes second will have the greater advantage.





I like situations where armies built for one particular tactic end up having to adjust. That's fine, all I was saying was that two identical lists facing each other aren't going to necessarily show greater playing skill. Identical lists does not put each player on equal competitive footing where only skill will win out, other factors will be just as important.

chaos0xomega
20-05-2010, 17:06
Only when it is Tau v. Tau or Necron v. Necron.

decker_cky
20-05-2010, 17:21
What if having those tau fight each other was necessary for the greater good?

Hunger
20-05-2010, 17:57
Do you refuse to play against the same army?

Nope, Chaos fights itself as much as it fights other races. Probably more so.

chaos0xomega
20-05-2010, 18:11
What if having those tau fight each other was necessary for the greater good?

Its not about the greater good, its about whether or not I want to play a game that will last 6 turns and see next to nothing accomplished...

Zweischneid
20-05-2010, 18:23
What about identical SCs?

Mephiston fencing with Mephiston, Vulkan spearfighting with his identical clone, two Marbos stalking each other, two spears of twilight taking out two identical Autarchs at the game's end?

Vepr
20-05-2010, 18:32
I have never refused a game for this reason but as a nid player it always seems a bit less interesting to me. As a nid player though it often makes for a fast game because nids now excel at curb stomping nids. :p

Urban Shaman Commando
20-05-2010, 18:56
What if having those tau fight each other was necessary for the greater good?

Or a simulated combat drill or something.

If I went Tau vs Tau I'd suggest that me and my opponent would roll-off to see which one of us is playing with the Farsight heretics and which one is the good guys. Just for laughs.

Hashmal
20-05-2010, 19:10
Nope. I welcome all games, even against the same armies. Rarely do opponents field the exact same army composition as me.

As I play Dark Eldar and Daemons, this rarely happens. I did have a DE v DE game a few months back and it was wicked fun.

Urban Shaman Commando
20-05-2010, 19:57
Playing same armies with someone who has a significantly different list and playstyle could be really fun and educating.

CushionRide
20-05-2010, 20:06
we at our last tourney had an interesting discussion about necron vs necron,

a monolith can teleport a necron unit correct? i doesnt specificly say Friendly necron unit. so my friends were joking about teleporting each others necron units and taking them over. lol

the winner goes to the guy with more monoliths

marv335
20-05-2010, 20:24
a monolith can teleport a necron unit correct? i doesnt specificly say Friendly necron unit. so my friends were joking about teleporting each others necron units and taking them over. lol

The main rulebook FAQ does, however, prohibit this sort of thing.

Nezalhualixtlan
20-05-2010, 20:51
Example: Vanilla marines vs. vanilla marines

I feel the games always end up very boring and depend entirely on mismatched lists.

My Tyranids would gladly eat another Hive Fleet, use it's biomass, and assimilate any better genetic structures they may have picked up.

Actually, I've gotten to play another Tyranid army so infrequently, I enjoy the opportunity of something different to face.

Max_Killfactor
20-05-2010, 21:39
It's never happened to me in 40k (DE ftw), but if I did I wouldn't like it so much. Never liked mirror matches, just less 'cool looking' to me.

Project2501
21-05-2010, 02:24
I have never refused a game because someone was playing the same (legal) army as me.

I could not fathom, aside from the oppenent being personally known as an *******, doing so either. Everyone plays either the army they want to, or the army they are able to, and refusing them a game (again, unless they are personally a-holes) equates to snubbing them at either their choice in army, or thei ability to afford an army, which is extremely egotistical IMO.


In short: You are NOT a unique snowflake. Get over it.

Logarithm Udgaur
21-05-2010, 03:24
If you both have the same tools available, the only difference is player skill.


My random number generators would like to talk with you.

OT: I have never met anyone else with a Blood Pact army, so it has yet to come up.

Wade Wilson
21-05-2010, 09:46
(I also enjoy beating Codex Marines with my Dark Angels, its very... satisfying :evilgrin:)

haha, aint that the truth.

Some armies are (according to the fluff) fighting each other far more than any other races. Warring ork clans, Dark Eldar cabals, Daeomons, Chaos Space Marines. Heck you can even argue that Imp guard vs Imp guard are fighting heratics or a genestealer cult. haha, i can imagine that necrons vs necrons might not be that interesting...

marv335
21-05-2010, 09:54
My random number generators would like to talk with you.



Both players are using dice. The odds are the same for both players, so it's not a factor.

Bork
21-05-2010, 10:29
I'd play happens seldom enough to be interesting. Among the people I know who play there has been an unspoken effort to avoid such situations. I have steered my SM in a radical/relictors direction for fluff reasons when fighting other imperial armies.



What about identical SCs?

Mephiston fencing with Mephiston, Vulkan spearfighting with his identical clone, two Marbos stalking each other, two spears of twilight taking out two identical Autarchs at the game's end?

... both yelling 'Impostor' as they are charging each other... :p

Giganthrax
21-05-2010, 11:16
Why would you refuse to play against the same army? The only reason I can think of is if you're playing necrons and a necron vs necron battle would be horribly boring... But then necrons are a horribly boring army to begin with, as far as I'm concerned.

As for myself, I love playing against other vanilla armies. In fact, I generally enjoying playing against other marines because all marine dexes have a lot of available options and playstyles, ensuring that almost every opponent will be different. It also avoids the confusion with the names of equipment - a meltagun is a meltagun in every marine dex, hence I don't have to memorize the appearance+name+effect of obscure xenos weapons and wargear/biomorph/chaosgift choices.

Finally, I find marine vs marine battles are the most balanced and most based on skill. Fights against other races are much more often determined by codex imbalances, particular playstyles of those races, terrain, etc.

Damien 1427
21-05-2010, 11:22
two Marbos stalking each other

That actually sounds quite cool, as it goes.

Sorros
21-05-2010, 12:10
Both players are using dice. The odds are the same for both players, so it's not a factor.

The ODDS are. Put it on the tabletop and see how great those work out. You could roll three 1s on termies' saves. Sure, the odds will even out--when you don't really need them. Also, table-setup like terrain can have an impact (I've been in horrendously unbalanced terrain-wise places, its sort of idiotic). I've had games where, technically, the odds were evened out, but often rolling high where I didn't need/want (like psychic tests...) or too low where I didn't want them either. Failing 3 fortune'd warlocks on jetbikes from 3 regular wounds? Mathhammer-wise, that should be fine...

That said, I don't LIKE playing against the same army, but Eldar can pull it off due to numerous armies (Wraithwall, mech, Saim-Hann, Altaioc, harlies, etc). Having played both Fritz's Saim-Hann and Harlie lists, same army can fight same army and still be quite fun. I also dislike playing marines repeatedly, so I'd rather fight my own army than fight marines 5 times in a row.

Sir_Turalyon
21-05-2010, 13:21
Most armies can pull off so many variant lists that both forces will end up very dissimiliar anyway. In fact, there is no more climatic way to play 40k than two Guard armies facing each other in Cityfight Cities of Death.

Madigan
21-05-2010, 16:44
To this day I have never refused a game of 40k (but it helps that I tend to have a good eye for avoiding people that I think might end up being a huge douche when it comes to playing the game). In 4th edition I used to joke that IG vs IG was about as boring as 40k could get (since the old codex used to produce armies in this area that tended to be very similar), but with 5th edition and the newer codices that really isn't an issue anymore.

I've had a few tournament games where I felt like I'd rather be gouging out my own eyeballs than continue to play against my opponent, but thankfully that doesn't happen very often, and so far I've managed to finish even those dreadful games just out of courtesy. 40k is a game where it REALLY helps to have huge reserves of patience.

ReveredChaplainDrake
21-05-2010, 16:49
I'd just whip out a different army if I thought it would be more fun. I'd much rather play CSM vs Tyranids / Tyranids vs CSM than like army versus like army. Normally it'd be a fun exercise, and for some armies it is. But my CSM play mech, and my Tyranids play a fast combat horde. Mech vs Mech basically boils down to "whoever disembarks first loses", and assault horde vs assault horde boils down to whoever gets the luckier fleet roll or misjudges an assault distance. (Against Tyranids, every list is an Alpha Strike list.) I find that two skilled players who use even the same theme of list will make the game incredibly boring because you're waiting for the opponent to either (1) biff an offense, or (2) make a mistake.

Case in point, I once played in a tournament against a hybrid mech Deathwing list, and I was using my near-full mech Night Lords. I refused the flank that lacked 50% terrain coverage, while he put his fire support on one side and his forward Land Raider w/ guys on the other side. We spent about three full turns dancing around each others' tanks, ending only when I managed to back one of his Land Raiders into a corner. After four grueling turns, I got to grips with and smashed his isolated Raider unit, but I didn't have enough time to cross the field to contest the objective that the other half of his army was sitting on, and so we drew the game. Most. Anticlimactic. Game. Ever.

This is why I generally ask my opponent which army they play (though not the army contents) before I pick which of my lists I'll use.

lewiss111
21-05-2010, 19:40
i have sisters of battle, and haven't found a game against another player with SOB ever.........

Malphax
21-05-2010, 21:03
There are a few armies that don't make sense fighting each other instead of cooperating, but not many. Necrons, or Tyranids, for example, but "doesn't make sense" and "never happens" are two totally and completely different things. Pretty much everything will either readily fight one another, or will fight over some easily concocted fluff excuse. It could be even something as simple as "Only MY <army> will have the HONOR of returning the <mission objective> to <our boss>!" Loyalist Tau could be fighting a Farsight Enclave. Daemonhunters and Witchhunters could be fighting each other over a Radical Inquisitor who's gone on a rampage. There's always a reason to start a fight.

I would (almost) never refuse a game against another player, unless they were clearly using a non-legal list, or were inveterate cheaters.

clangedinn
21-05-2010, 21:24
Nope bring it on. most of my daemons will fight anyone just for the sake of Blood for the blood god!!!

If i was playing something other then daemons or orks i would chalk it up to wargames and see who played better

Daddydiamond
22-05-2010, 01:24
I am posting on this thread for no reason other than to prove I am not a bot so I can post. However, I immagine it would be somewhat boring as I am an "old beardie" as GW likes to condescendingly call people who like the older rules. Games took longer and had a distinct aroma of cheddar but the options with armies were so vast that you never saw the same game twice.

mulkers
25-05-2010, 03:35
My mate who i usually play with has guard, and i did too up until this weekend gone. It wa always fun, becuase the two armies are so much more evenly matched