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Vedar
20-05-2010, 17:52
With new Daemon models on the way I think GW has a chance to right some wrongs. I wondered what others though. Daemons in fantasy are quite broken. This might change with 8th Ed fantasy, but that got me thinking about 40K Daemons.

They are not that popular for a few reasons.

1. Random nature. I think they took them to a bit of an extreme. Random units in first wave, random units deploy from reserve, all units deep strike and can be destroyed by a bad roll.

2. Not very good against Vehicles and Vehicles are the name of the game in 5th.

3. Good units/Bad units. Some units rock the house (flamers/Bloodcrushers/plaguebearers) some units are craptastic (furies/flesh hounds/beasts of nurgle).

enigma-96
20-05-2010, 18:03
I would rather see them become a part of a giant unified Chaos Legion book instead of get their own codex. But as to the intent of your question...yes I would like to see a "new" codex for them (either on its own or make it possible that you can take an all daemon army in the Chaos legion book but make it so that army is better balanced than the current one.)

jsullivanlaw
20-05-2010, 18:03
I played daemons for a couple years. I would like to see a new codex because i hate the wave system and don't like being forced to deploy with deepstrike. There is only one way to deploy daemons and that sucks. And some ranged anti tank would be nice...

TimLeeson
20-05-2010, 18:07
Their codex is still new and I am happy with them - however whenever they get updated next (in the far future!) I think it would be good to expand them and make them more 40kish ;

* add more cyborg daemons, go off the Doom cyber-demon motiff.
* more soul-forge stuff.
* Daemon engines, some generic cyber-lovecraftian things would be awesome.
* extra specific units for all 4 gods, some pure undivided daemon types.

Bunnahabhain
20-05-2010, 18:09
I voted bananas, as my opinion isn't up there.

No new Daemons codex, and no new CSM codex, and no new Lost and the Damned codex. One big bumper book of flavourful, balanced, Chaos.

I can see no reason you can't get every single current daemon unit into a decent chaos book.

chaos0xomega
20-05-2010, 18:15
I would prefer individual books personally, GW very smartly realized that sticking so many different things into one book makes for something that is impossible to balance.

anyway, I think daemons are fine. They need a few tweeks (aforementioned ranged anti-tank, more/better FA choices, more heavy options would be nice too), but they are very playable and don't need an update for a while to come. Oh, and their deployment style is unlikely to change, so get used to it.

clangedinn
20-05-2010, 18:15
I think the army is fine if you play it well. The deployment can be a pain but f ya do it smartly is not normally an issue. When it is an issue you just deal with the fact you get to deploy in response to opponents deployment anywhere on the board for the most part.

I would like to see a little more flavor from the soulforge and maybe a bit more options. Wrapping them into one giant chaos codex would be nifty also but i dont want to have to play CSM if i am playing demons.

enigma-96
20-05-2010, 18:24
Wrapping them into one giant chaos codex would be nifty also but i dont want to have to play CSM if i am playing demons.

I am the proud owner of the old Fantasy Chaos armybook and in it they were able to fit Mortal, Beastmen, and Daemon, armies with little trouble at all. In fact when compared to the current fantasy books the 3 fantasy books COMBINED have less than 10 (Too lazy to check the exact number right now) units over the old book. It was possible to take a mixed army OR you could take a pure army and both options were pretty good. If they could do that in fantasy (Though I'm sure Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned allowed a similar thing for 40k anyways?) I'm pretty sure they could pull it off again in 40k. I agree though if they make one big book a pure daemon army must remain possible.

Valtiel
20-05-2010, 19:02
I've recently went over from having Tyranids as my main army to having Daemons my main army. The book does have problems, especially with the random nature and lack of satisfying anti-tank (well, we do have monstrous creatures' close combat ability but lack more shooting) I still think it's a fine army. There are some awesome units in it but I do miss sometimes just deploying normal. If only you could deploy your army like normal but have to option to deep strike every single units would already make the army more desirable.

And perhaps fix some of the rare choices but also Nurglings (but Swarms overall suck in 40k anyway so it might be hard for GW to realize their failure). Also whenever they do get a new codex I hope there won't be any more God Daemons... and that's just because I like the current Daemons for each god. Instead you could work much more on some Undivided Daemons, Daemonic Engines to put into the Heavy Support choices etc.

For now, I'll be happy with more great models. Other armies need a codex more than us, I even think the Chaos Daemon codex is much more interesting that the Chaos Space Marine Codex so those before Chaos Daemons would be lovely.

Hashmal
20-05-2010, 19:07
Bananas. Ideally they should make one large Chaos codex and be done with it.

jsullivanlaw
20-05-2010, 19:08
I would prefer individual books personally, GW very smartly realized that sticking so many different things into one book makes for something that is impossible to balance.

anyway, I think daemons are fine. They need a few tweeks (aforementioned ranged anti-tank, more/better FA choices, more heavy options would be nice too), but they are very playable and don't need an update for a while to come. Oh, and their deployment style is unlikely to change, so get used to it.

Nope, gave up instead. I thought an all deepstrike army would be fun but it doesn't work against certain opponents. I would be totally fine playing the army if there were different deployment options but as it is...it kinda sucks. Deepstriking without being able to do anything is rough but the real killer is the wave thing.

Lars Porsenna
20-05-2010, 19:12
I do or do not like bananas.

Like others I think the Daemons book should be done away with. Instead, a core "Chaos" book is needed, from which one can make "pure" CSM, LatD, and Daemon armies, or mix-n-match. This would make more sense in terms of background than the current arrangements...

Damon.

chaos0xomega
20-05-2010, 19:57
Mmmm.... bring back the daemon bomb army... oh and lets give them traitor basilisks/leman russ's while we're at it, COOL!

No, bad idea. LATD worked well, because there were a lot of things absent from the list or with limitations on it. A combined book wouldn't be able to have all the flexibility of three-plus seperate books and still be balanced.

Charistoph
20-05-2010, 19:58
While they need some overall tweeking, there are a few armies that need their work finished before a young codex like Daemons gets rereleased.

I do like bannanas. I like them straight and split.

I think the Ally system was one of the best things ever, and should be increased instead of diminshed.

Reaver83
20-05-2010, 20:08
They're still a recent codex, only just coming out before 5th, as such many many other books need updating first (DE, GK, SOB, Eldar, DA, Tau, Crons, CSM, even Orcs!)

But yeah they'd benefit from some new daemon engines in my opinion, the heavy support's a bit light, also a few more options for the units.

But for now it's fine, they're not an easy army, but they can be competative

marv335
20-05-2010, 20:19
There are far too many armies in need of a codex to consider a new daemon codex.

sigur
20-05-2010, 20:24
There are far too many armies in need of a codex to consider a new daemon codex.

Absolutely true, but did this fact ever stop people from mourning for "new races", new Eldar/Chaos/etc. codices? ;)

Souleater
20-05-2010, 20:41
Not before my Dark Eldar, Necron or Sisters of Battle finally get their codexes. No offence to the Daemons :D

Lord Inquisitor
20-05-2010, 20:44
I think Chaos Daemons is a paragon of how codecies should be. A centralised armoury, limited unique special rules, simple, clear, understandable mechanics, reliance on USRs to cover most funkiness. Reasonable internal balance given that it's such a wacky themed army, most units are usable and few are required. It's not at the top of the power curve but it was balanced when it was released and remains competitive. Compare this codex with the mess that Imperial Guard or Tyranids have become :cries:

It's too random for my liking, but that's really the nature of the beast with Daemons. WFB Daemons were just broken, but Codex: Daemons was an excellent book with good fluff and beautifully designed rules. Would that all codecies were like this.

chaosmoron
20-05-2010, 20:49
I would like the Chaos Daemons codex to get "squatted" in 40k. Stupid idea to take them out of codex CSM.

chaos0xomega
20-05-2010, 20:53
They're not going to be squatted. GW's new policy is to provide ongoing support as an independent army for every army book/codex released since the release of 4th ed. I.E. - If they release a codex of it, they will continue to produce it as an independent force (I.E. - no combining with another list in the future) permanently.


Not before my Dark Eldar, Necron or Sisters of Battle finally get their codexes. No offence to the Daemons :D

Add Tau onto that list... and maybe eldar as well... and then I'll be good to go with a new daemons update.

Nezalhualixtlan
20-05-2010, 20:53
With new Daemon models on the way I think GW has a chance to right some wrongs.

Demons could use some work, unfortunately they have a rather new codex and there are other armies that both need and I think deserve it more (40k anyway I don't do Fantasy), and due to the nature of GW codex updates, they're going to need to wait even if they get a 2nd wave of models coming out.

Also, I like bananas.

Jayden63
20-05-2010, 21:42
I would like the Chaos Daemons codex to get "squatted" in 40k. Stupid idea to take them out of codex CSM.

This. I personally can't fathom a fluff reason at all that would allow deamons (especially mixed marked) to band together, come out of the warp, and raid a planet. Just not happening.

Deamons should be brought back into Chaos Space Marines where they belong. Powerful individuals that can rip the deamons out of the warp and force them into servitude.

Shas'o Kais
20-05-2010, 21:44
One thing Deamons need most, assault out of DS

Nezalhualixtlan
20-05-2010, 21:51
I don't have an issue with the Daemons getting their own codex, but seriously, single god armies should have been a viable option. I realize you can just use the stat line as a template and make the model anything close in size on the right base that you want, and just "counts as" but come on, poor design that it's not something that was just possible with the book to begin with.

and it seemed weird there weren't "allies" rules for the Chaos marines, but it sounds like they might be doing away with that entirely anyway with the new Inquisition codex(es) coming out, which I honestly don't mind as I think the "allies" just opened up too many weird rule interactions when books update. So maybe that was the right move.

I think it gives them a unique playstyle and reason enough to put out new and interesting fluff, to have their own separate codex, but I think the one they got is lacking in execution... but really there's other armies out there that require more attention for 5th Ed and will bring better returns on the time/resource investment for GW.

Shamutanti
20-05-2010, 21:59
Personally I love the Demons codex, find it fun to play with and get the most rewarding response from people when I use them.

Players around here seem to enjoy playing them, maybe it's the challenge or the forced change of play?

Either way they don't need a new codex and they're fine as they are currently in my eyes. Maybe the odd tweak on a few creatures but nothing major.

DeeKay
21-05-2010, 02:00
Sorry, but bananas are too nice to vote against!

Seriously though, for those naysayers saying that a mix-and-match army would be impossible to balance, rubbish! GW have done it before with the WFB 5th Ed Realm of Chaos book, and its add-on Champions of Chaos which IMO could have been rolled into the same book.

Remember, LatD=cheap and fairly rubbish individually.
CSM= capable but lacking in standard materiel such as more recent weaponry and armour.
Daemons=excellent shock troops but upredictable arrival makes them vulnerable to piecemeal destruction.

Gel those concepts in-game and we have a winner, folks! You know it can be done!

With regards,
Dan.

IcedAnimals
21-05-2010, 02:29
I would like to see a new daemon codex but not for a while. They need a few changes such as plaguebeasts sucking horribly. Daemonettes way overpriced. Only a single semi viable fast attack choice. Though Daemons should not be until at least 2012.

sabreu
21-05-2010, 03:03
I think daemons could do with a bunch of unaligned units. There is no way anyone can convince me the 'Chaos Realms' can't come up with something new.

Mannimarco
21-05-2010, 03:21
more daemon engines, stuff like the plague hulk, blood slaughterer and blight drones would be a great.

oh yeah and for the new daemons dex to be merged with the new chaos marine dex (cmon im not the only one to think it)

sabreu
21-05-2010, 03:33
oh yeah and for the new daemons dex to be merged with the new chaos marine dex (cmon im not the only one to think it)

I really don't like this idea. I know, I know. They used to be one and they were half the flavor of the old chaos marine dex. BUT! Their absence leaves the Chaos Marine codex to grow in a new direction. Now the next dev who gets to write the 6th edition codex will have the opportunity to include daemon engines, imbittered legionnaires, Dark Apostles, War-smiths, etc etc.

IcedAnimals
21-05-2010, 03:59
As a daemon player I would not mind being merged back. Daemons are what seperate chaos from "more marines" but it wont happen for a long time

Occulto
21-05-2010, 04:06
This. I personally can't fathom a fluff reason at all that would allow deamons (especially mixed marked) to band together, come out of the warp, and raid a planet. Just not happening.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Once they've claimed the planet for Chaos - that's when the inter-deity fighting begins.

Logarithm Udgaur
21-05-2010, 04:57
I think Chaos Daemons is a paragon of how codecies should be. A centralised armoury, limited unique special rules, simple, clear, understandable mechanics, reliance on USRs to cover most funkiness. Reasonable internal balance given that it's such a wacky themed army, most units are usable and few are required. It's not at the top of the power curve but it was balanced when it was released and remains competitive. Compare this codex with the mess that Imperial Guard or Tyranids have become :cries:

It's too random for my liking, but that's really the nature of the beast with Daemons. WFB Daemons were just broken, but Codex: Daemons was an excellent book with good fluff and beautifully designed rules. Would that all codecies were like this.
I heartily disagree with nearly everything said in this post.


This. I personally can't fathom a fluff reason at all that would allow deamons (especially mixed marked) to band together, come out of the warp, and raid a planet.
Medusa V (or any other planet engulfed by a warp storm), a summoning by an undivided coven, the 2nd War of Armageddon. Personally, I think that it is stupid, but that does not mean it does not fit the background.


One thing Deamons need most, assault out of DS
No, just no.

big squig
21-05-2010, 05:44
No, I want to see chaos marines and daemons merged back together. If someone wants to play just daemons, then simply don't play with marines.

sabreu
21-05-2010, 05:57
No, I want to see chaos marines and daemons merged back together. If someone wants to play just daemons, then simply don't play with marines.

If you want them merged back together, then simply play apocalypse-lite. :shifty:

AlmightyNocturnus
21-05-2010, 06:08
I like Daemons as a separate entity/codex. I do feel like they were rushed a bit ruleswise. Several of the books that have come out since are much more powerful in many areas where daemons are limited - almost as if GW realized the Daemon rules were somewhat handicapped. For example, Tyranids have more slots available for MCs and psuedo-MCs (T6) and they are much more mobile...yet look how much you pay for wings for a DP in Codex Daemons. Daemons can`t deepstrike accurately, but now other armies have several options for this (BA Descent of Angels...or just put Marbo or Dante where you want to without 25 or 50 points worth of icons). Daemons absolutely cannot assault after deepstriking, but look at the Ork or Space Marine or BA codices (Hard-hitting, option-filled units cannot drop and assault). So, in a sense, the Daemon Codex was rendered obsolete faster than most and could use some rule updating. Despite this fact and despite me being a Daemon player, I still can`t justify a new Daemon Codex before Necrons or Dark Eldar though. We can wait.

Almighty Nocturnus

Radium
21-05-2010, 06:13
They're fine as is. They're not nearly as weak as the Internetz makes them out to be, and at least they have a 5th ed codex.

big squig
21-05-2010, 06:28
If you want them merged back together, then simply play apocalypse-lite. :shifty:

Which is always a poor solution. I'm sure every time I play a stranger or at a tournament that will go over well.:rolleyes:

Gorbad Ironclaw
21-05-2010, 06:47
I think Chaos Daemons is a paragon of how codecies should be.

Boring, limited and uninspired?

I got no problem with the centralised armoury or the use of USR to cover most things. However I do have issues with the thoroughly uninspired way the demons themselves are done.

Why are they a carbon copy of the Warhammer ones, where are my 40k demons? The Soul Grinder was a great idea, where is the rest of them? I want a 40k army, not a Warhammer army on round bases.

Second it seems to me that it's a true model driven codex. We have these flamers so they need rules, or we have these Plaguebearers so they need rules. It would be much more interesting if they included a wide range of different demon types and you could then mark them.
Say you have a Foot Soldier demon type. Marked they become Horrors, Bloodletters, Plaguebearers and Deamonettes. So far so good, but what about minor demons like Nurglings, or blaster type demons like Flamers. Why are there not different versions of them? It would certainly go a long way towards making the Demon Codex more interesting to build armies from if you could actually build an army from the god you liked without being stuck with 3 or 4 different options and that's it.

Grimtuff
21-05-2010, 08:36
One thing Deamons DO NOT need most, assault out of DS

Fixed it for you. ;)

...and I play Daemons! You do realise how wrong this would be right?

meanmachine
21-05-2010, 08:58
my mono tzeentch daemons seem to do fine, every squad has a anti tank ranged weapon, i have never used a icon, my army struggles against most against marines, i can handle orks and guard ok

mono khorne is also good against tank armies, all you need is flesh hounds and bloodthirsters, flesh hounds can catch the tank and have 3 str5 attacks each

Baragash
21-05-2010, 09:27
Been playing chaos since the 2nd Ed Codex release and I much prefer separate books. It's a shame GW didn't throw a couple of chaos themed things into the IG book.

The problem I find is that GW keep resorting to random = chaos (wave rule, CSM Possessed) when IMO high risk+high reward = chaos.

Wave rule out.
More Daemon Engines.
Undivided options given equal prominence (daemons and not feeling like you gimp yourself by not taking a Mark+gear).
More ranged firepower.
Personally I find Greater Daemons should have 5 wounds base.
Slaanesh Greater Daemon special character!

Crovax20
21-05-2010, 09:38
We got 2 guys playing them at our club. And too be honest I never hear them complain about it. The daemons are quite powerful, and the random nature is what keeps them in check. Besides they aren't THAT random, go play orcs & goblins and come back after that :)

Although we don't have many players running mech lists, only 1 afaik.

gwarsh41
26-05-2010, 16:45
I am fine with the deepstrike, I actually enjoy it. I am not fine with many of the units being completely useless. Furies, beasts of nurgle, heralds, hounds of khorne... What I would like to see the most is for 40k to get some of the awesome powers that fantasy daemons have.

Grimstonefire
26-05-2010, 16:53
What I'd like to see is them making them the equivalent of tyranids back when they could be highly customised (whichever edition that was).

So probably 50% - 75% of the list would be based on generic undivided 'daemons' with very specific attributes that could be customised and ultimately made into themed god specific versions of each thing.

For instance;
Daemon Beasts (the current flesh hounds). They have a generic profile to start with. Upgrades;
- Flesh Hounds (stronger etc)
- Pain hound (faster, something slaanesh themed)
- Plague hound (poisoned attacks etc)
- Collar of Khorne
- Firebeasts (something tzeentch themed.
- Something else
- Something else etc

The models they sell would currently only represent 1 specific build of hounds, but they would have options in the rules for creating themed god specific daemon lists that utilised practically everything.

The greater Daemons would need to stay the same, for fluff reasons.

gwarsh41
26-05-2010, 16:58
So many units being similar to the daemon princes?
I would love that for the ability to make a nurgle themed list, but it just doesnt match with the fluff. If they made more daemons in the fluff it would be super!
The slaanesh version of a plague hound is a seeker, and is better in virtually every way, makes me pretty sad.

How about saying, More than 1 choice per slot per god. Daemons are confined to 1 choice per god. why cant there be two nurgle elite choices? throw in some plague drones or something.

MajorWesJanson
27-05-2010, 04:11
I'd like to see a few more HS options, besides just the Prince and the Soulgrinder. Maybe a smaller version of the soulgrinder, like a daemonic dreadnought. Or steal stuff from FW. Add the Blood Slaughterer for Khorne and Plague Drones for Nurgle, then make versions for Tzeentch (mini silver tower/disc skimmers?) and Slaanesh (Some sort of Gorgon type unit that turns men to stone?)

TheDireAvenger
29-05-2010, 00:18
When did the last Codex come out? 2007?

I think Daemons really need a new 40k Codex as they really missed the boat on the last one. I'd really want to start a Daemon Army if they updated the codex.

Firmlog
29-05-2010, 00:24
Yeah, they totally need chaos marines and rebel guard. Just my op.

Dark Primus
29-05-2010, 10:04
Here is my idea on how to fix things:

The first wave should only scatter 1 D6.

Give the Soul Grindor +1 BS and more weapon options especially more effective anti-tank weapons.

Lord of Change should also be given more weapon choises that has better range then mere 24".
Give Daemons more units as Undivided Daemons in form of Greater Deamons and lesser Daemons should also be in it.

And I do have ideas for more Daemons but this will do for now.

Valtiel
29-05-2010, 11:33
Personally, I'd just rather we don't get too many new Daemon units. I'd like to see many more Daemonic Engines akin to those on Forgeworld and that would pretty much make me happy about the number of units in the codex. If they also fixed the ones that aren't good now I would just be a happy man.

Archangel_Ruined
29-05-2010, 11:41
A 40k version of the old Realms of Chaos book would be the winner. It would have marines, LATD and daemons, and your choice of HQ would effect your choices in the FOC (I know, how very now in 40k...).

hungry hungry hormagaunt
29-05-2010, 14:14
Ok, some suggestions for modifications. These aren't my original ideas by any stretch - think of it as a collection of the best ideas I've heard.

* Get rid of the wave randomness.
* First wave shouldn't scatter, or should only scatter d6". No more losing Fateweaver to a bad scatter roll at the start of the game.
* Second wave scatters normally - if you're particularly worried about losing your prized Greater Daemon to an unlucky scatter roll, you can put it in the first wave or drop it close to an Icon.
* Daemon units deep-striking within 12" of an Icon don't scatter. Daemon units deep-striking within 6" of an Icon may assault the turn they arrive. These bonuses only apply if the Icon was on the table from the start of the turn.
* Some sane anti-tank options. Suggestions listed below.
* Fixing the Codex's utterly useless units.
* I personally think the more weird shooting attacks - Boon of Mutation, Pavane of Slaanesh, Aura of Decay - should be actual psychic powers, if only so people don't feel they wasted the points they spent on psychic defence versus Daemons. They should also be buffed a bit to compensate for the nerf of having to take a psychic test to use them. Of course, Daemons should get immunity to Perils of the Warp, because that's just stupid.
* Daemons need some kind of anti-Psyker defense. I'd like to see something that makes Perils of the Warp much more common or much nastier, because that seems characterful. Khorne units should be able to buy Collars of Khorne which provide an invulnerable save against ALL psychic attacks, not just ones which cause wounds.
* Ultimately, I'd like mono-god armies to be viable. This might be a bit of a long shot...

Currently, our anti-tank options are:

A single S10 BS3 shot on the Soul Grinder which costs 25 points for the upgrade. Lame. 15 points as it is, or 25 points if it's BS4 or twin-linked.

Bolt of Tzeentch, a S8 shot which can (except in Horror units) be fired at a separate target from the other guns, and which can be carried by Lords of Change (BS5), Heralds of Tzeentch (BS4), Horror squads (BS3? can't remember, don't have the codex with me), and Daemon Princes of Tzeentch (BS5). Horror squads should be throwing more than one - let them buy one Bolt per five Horrors. Lords of Change deserve an improved version with either the Lance rule or AP1.

Breath of Chaos, which auto-hits and glances on 4+ but can't penetrate. Not really an anti-tank option as it is. I'd like to see it glance on 4-5 and penetrate on a 6.

Melee. This includes Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes (monstrous creatures), Screamers (which have melta bombs), Fiends (lots of attacks, high strength and Rending), Flesh Hounds (meh), and Seekers (also meh). The Bloodthirster needs to be able to buy a "Reroll missed attacks" option (hey, Skaarbrand grants it to everything near him, why can't a normal Bloodthirster get a self-only version?). Screamers would be really nice if they couldn't get bogged down in Melee - give them Hit and Run and they're solid. Failing that, letting them reroll misses against vehicles or hit on a 4+ even if the target moved fast would do fine.

Fixing useless units will follow in another post. Currently, the truly useless units are: Heralds of Nurgle and Khorne, Beasts of Nurgle, Furies, arguably Nurglings, arguably Flesh Hounds (they're possibly a better choice than Seekers for cracking open rear AV10 vehicles, but with some better anti-tank options we'd never even need to consider them for this role).

Col. Tartleton
29-05-2010, 16:59
I think you could do some sweeping reforms to bring them somewhat more in line with the Nids whom they share the most aspects. (Options for overwhelming daemon spam or unbreakable Daemonzilla or a blend of both)

They'd have some major differences, like leadership being great across the board and the invulnerable saves and stuff, so it wouldn't be like Nids part 2, but they should be relatively similar (as they would be with Imperial Guard who can go really tank heavy or really infantry heavy or what have you.)

They also share aspects with the Necrons. Lots of hard guys and harder guys.

Here's my idea. Get rid of the massive forced deepstrike, and give the Daemon player the choice of who deploys first. That's more daemonic. They shouldn't be deepstriking in, it's not a teleport, they sort of grease their way through the warp into play. They would choose their ground, they aren't launching air drops or ripping out of the ground. Deepstriking can be an option, like a warp vortex type drop pod/mycetic spore that lands and spills forth it's unholy cargo, does damage to everything around it, then fades out of existence.

There should be numerous main classes of daemons: Monstrous Commanders, Commanders, Monstrous Creatures, Cavalry, Heavy Infantry, Light Infantry, and Swarms.

Aka: Commander Greater Daemons, Heralds, Greater Daemons, Mounted Daemons, Heavy Daemons, Light Daemons, Swarm Daemons, and a Daemonic Forge Unit

So like for Khorne: Bloodthirster Lord, Herald of Khorne, Bloodthirster, Blood Crusher, Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds (which should be worse stats, 6 or 7, points and used en masse), say Carrion (piles of bloodthirsty cobbled human bone and brass abominations), and Bloodslaughterers.

That's a rough 8 unit types per God, which can be modified in various ways, such as wings for most of the units (Winged heralds, winged bloodletters, winged flesh hound (tzeentch should have flying monkeys of course...) flying carrion, and the rest either have wings or shouldn't have the option.

That's 40 units right there (Undivided would have their own 8 options) plus numerous special characters. That should create a rather diverse army with enough units to make 5 different monotheist armies, mix and match by choice, not need, that can each be built in numerous ways. You could go Monstrous Creature Khorne with thirsters and blood crushers, Infantry swarm Khorne with lots of hounds and carrion, Heavy Infantry Khorne with heralds and bloodletters, or make flying variants of any of those for massive mobility, or deepstriking armies... the options are limitless with some reforms.

Sarevok
29-05-2010, 17:57
Beasts of Nurgle need to be Beasts. Plus either S5 or 3+ poison. Possibly 3 wounds.

More Daemon types would be nice, as there isn't much variety compared to the newer books.
Of course you could just stick generic Chariots in heavy support.

malisteen
29-05-2010, 18:36
Wouldn't mind a new chaos daemons codex. Would prefer a new Chaos Mortals codex first.

PapaDoc
29-05-2010, 23:57
They need a new codex definetly. They are an army that is very hard to play for beginners in my opinion. There are two deamon players I have met:

1. The kids/men who play deamons in fantasy and think they are top 3 in 40k.
2. Champions of 40k who have played with almost every army, know how many times on average you can score 11 with 4 dices in their sleep, and can "smell" a bad deployment from 400 yards.

Number 1 gets a new army /sticks with fantasy after a couple of games... and number 2 is more rare then a reasonably priced GW model.

Dakkagor
30-05-2010, 00:06
I think dark eldar and Necrons should be done way before chaos gets touched again.

Is it me or do servants of the dark gods whine the most about their codexes? Evil villians shouldn't give a rats ass aboput balance issues!

Mannimarco
30-05-2010, 00:30
The fact that chaos players (mainly marines) "whine" as you put it is we feel hard done by, Id rather not get into a CSM debate here as they come around every month but it really does speak volumes for the state of chaos when it is complained about so frequently.

OK what i want in the next daemon book:

Mamon
Uraka
Jibberjaw
Gorefeaster
Blight Drones
Blood Slaughterers

All this stuff already exists, you want somthing to add to your daemons try adding some of this.

People complain about the lack of variety and depth of chaos all to frequently without actually going out and finding out what else is out there, I see people "whining" that they want more characters and more daemon engines etc. Theres no need to constantly wishlist, it already exists

Logarithm Udgaur
30-05-2010, 03:23
Jibberjaw

Wasn't that the name of that shark that rolled around and solved mysteries back in the 80s?

Edit: I was thinking Jabberjaw (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6hDZt1e0ofY/SM78xj9PKDI/AAAAAAAABdg/b4UDeEWYUdg/s320/Jabberjaw.jpg). I would still laugh at you if you told me one of your guys was named Jibberjaw.

Kuja
30-05-2010, 03:47
I think that they are fine (I play daemons and eldars). Although, more options and units in the army would be very nice :D