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theman151
20-05-2010, 19:01
Hi Everyone,

I was playing High Elves last night with my Skaven army (1500 pts). It was going great: my HPA took out a unit of 20 spearmen, clanrats were in position and I had his general right where I wanted him. I revealed my deathmaster sniktch from my stormvermin and challenged his General (a mounted noble) and based on CR, I thought I had him beat. Well apparently I didn't because his general was uber strong in defense (almost unbelievably so) and since I don't have the HE book I couldn't check it. He wouldn't let me look through his book either, and that is where my questions arise (since I don't know their army specfic rules). So here are my questions:

1) do HE archers get to attack in 2 ranks? If yes, does this apply to stand and shoot charge reaction as well.

2) His Noble: Since my deathmaster sniktch has ASF and 6 atks with weeping blades I thought I would wreck his general in a 1500 point game. However when I challenged him and was hoping to annihalate him on CR (25 stormvermin with std and warbanner) I rolled up my hits and wounds. I get 4 wounds on 1st turn. This is where my question will come in- He claims that due to his armour and being on a barded horse and having a shield will give him a 1+ armour save. with the weeping blades he get -2 to his save, making it 3 plus. Okay, 2 wounds get through. "WAIT. I can reroll failed armour saves"... okay, seems a little out there with a 1+ save already, but okay. he makes one and flubs one. Okay, so now it's multiplied into D3 wounds. "wait. I have a 4+ ward save". My response was "really", what items does he have". His reply "i don't know, dragon armor and a magic shield and the barded horse". He wouldn't let me see his book and we couldn't confirm it, but let's just say over 3 rounds of combat sniktch didn't do a single wound and he eventually charged my rear and I broke.

today I said I looked in my army builder and didn't see anything that would provide those saves, and the only thing I could find was dragon armor, a helmet that allows rerolls and light armour that gives a 4+ ward, which, when put together is 70 points, which is more than I assume a noble can take (I won't even get into him using dragon armour and the light armour at the same time). I called him on it this morning and he claims it's one item in the army book that gives him reroll failed armour saves, 4+ armour save (down to 1+ with barded horse and shield) and a 4+ ward save. He said it costs 55 points (remember I don't have the army book so I can't check that). when I told him that I think his noble can only take 50 pts in magic items his response was "oh ya it's 50 pts and it's one item and it's called something of defense". WOW. either that is the greatest magic item ever or he is full of poo.

3) One final question, he also had a banner that added D3 power dice a turn. Can he take that in a 1500 point game? He also said he had a banner that gave him +1 to casting rolls. can he take both.

I know it's an extremely long-winded post but it really bugged me that my buddy would knowingly break the rules like that. Especially since he's the type of guy that won't let you go over the point limit by even 1 point. Thanks to anyone that can provide insight.

RanaldLoec
20-05-2010, 19:09
Ok I'm not a HE player but I do play friendly games with a good friend, if you want to read the effects of an item that your opponent has and is about to use I would say it very very bad form not to let you read the book.

And after a game WFB or 40k GW suggest letting your opponent read your army list to refuse may mean he has a magic item build that he didn't use and doesn’t want to let you know about.

Or he’s an ****

Or worse he’s so desperate to win he’s cheating at what is meant to be a fun friendly way to pass time. Either way I think your opponent’s whole reaction to you asking to see his book and rules and items he’s using very odd and suspicious.#

HE Spear men can fight with an extra rank so thats 3 ranks in total but archers i'm not certain about

As for the items I'm guessing Vambraces of Defense 4+ ward reroll failed armour saves thats 55 p though and a noble has a 50 p limit on magic items any HE players please correct me if i'm wrong I don't own the book s this is from memory.

An enchanted shield with dragon armour, mount and barding gives a 1+ save not certain on HE points cost as commen items varie from book to book. Still this can't stack as a noble just won't have the points for both items.

RanaldLoec
20-05-2010, 19:25
Banner of socery 50 p for an extra d3 power dice per turn.

The starwood staff 40 p adds plus one onto the mages casting role but only for that 1 mage.

These two items will work and you can have both one on a unit or bsb the other on a mage.

I really think you opponent is a big cheat next time you play him just drop your trousers and **** on his general model then find some one more worthy of your time to play.

Really your the skaven player you should be using dirty underhand tricks to win.

jamano
20-05-2010, 19:28
The talisman "vambraces of defense" is the item you're looking for, but it does indeed cost 55 points, not 50. and there is no way for him to have a 1+ save on top of that with his noble without spending even more magic item pts he doesn't have.(dragon armor, barding, and shield is a 2+ save)

sorberec
20-05-2010, 19:29
1) do HE archers get to attack in 2 ranks? If yes, does this apply to stand and shoot charge reaction as well.

No. HE Spears and Sea Guard (who have spears and bows - are you sure it's not these you're thinking of?) get to fight in 1 more rank than normal (i.e. 2 on the charge, 3 when charged or later rounds of combat) but other than having ASF there's nothing special about HE archers.



2) His Noble: Since my deathmaster sniktch has ASF and 6 atks with weeping blades I thought I would wreck his general in a 1500 point game. However when I challenged him and was hoping to annihalate him on CR (25 stormvermin with std and warbanner) I rolled up my hits and wounds. I get 4 wounds on 1st turn. This is where my question will come in- He claims that due to his armour and being on a barded horse and having a shield will give him a 1+ armour save. with the weeping blades he get -2 to his save, making it 3 plus. Okay, 2 wounds get through. "WAIT. I can reroll failed armour saves"... okay, seems a little out there with a 1+ save already, but okay. he makes one and flubs one. Okay, so now it's multiplied into D3 wounds. "wait. I have a 4+ ward save". My response was "really", what items does he have". His reply "i don't know, dragon armor and a magic shield and the barded horse". He wouldn't let me see his book and we couldn't confirm it, but let's just say over 3 rounds of combat sniktch didn't do a single wound and he eventually charged my rear and I broke.

Sounds like you got cheated badly here. The only way to give any HE character a 1+ save is with Dragon Armour and Barded steed plus either the Enchanted Shield/Dragonscale Shield or a regular shield combined with the Helm of Fortune.

None of those would give him a 4+ Ward save. The Dragonscale Shield gets you a 6+ Ward save while the Helm of Fortune lets you re-roll failed armour.

The Armour of Protection gives a 4+ ward but counts as light armour so you couldn't have the Dragon Armour, and the only other item that gives a 4+ Ward is the Vambraces of Defence which costs more than a Noble can take in magic items (it also gives re-rolls to failed armour saves).



today I said I looked in my army builder and didn't see anything that would provide those saves, and the only thing I could find was dragon armor, a helmet that allows rerolls and light armour that gives a 4+ ward, which, when put together is 70 points, which is more than I assume a noble can take

Dragon Armour is mundane and so doesn't count towards the magic items allowance - unless you meant the Armour of Caledor which counts a Dragon Armour


(I won't even get into him using dragon armour and the light armour at the same time). I called him on it this morning and he claims it's one item in the army book that gives him reroll failed armour saves, 4+ armour save (down to 1+ with barded horse and shield) and a 4+ ward save. He said it costs 55 points (remember I don't have the army book so I can't check that). when I told him that I think his noble can only take 50 pts in magic items his response was "oh ya it's 50 pts and it's one item and it's called something of defense". WOW. either that is the greatest magic item ever or he is full of poo.

Sounds like he's talking about the Vambraces of Defence but they do NOT give any armour save. They give the 4+ ward and re-roll failed armour




3) One final question, he also had a banner that added D3 power dice a turn. Can he take that in a 1500 point game?

Yes he can. He needs to take a BSB or a unit of Dragon Princes, Sword Masters, White Lions or Phoenix Guard (with standard bearers obviously)


He also said he had a banner that gave him +1 to casting rolls. can he take both.

No such banner in the HE book but there is an arcane item that does this. Yes he can take both as long as he has the units and characters in his list who can take them



I know it's an extremely long-winded post but it really bugged me that my buddy would knowingly break the rules like that. Especially since he's the type of guy that won't let you go over the point limit by even 1 point. Thanks to anyone that can provide insight.

If he tries pulling this kind of crap in future refuse to play him again. A more blatant case of cheating I can't imagine. Did he even have a written army list?

Pootleflump
20-05-2010, 19:29
Hi Everyone,

I was playing High Elves last night with my Skaven army (1500 pts). It was going great: my HPA took out a unit of 20 spearmen, clanrats were in position and I had his general right where I wanted him. I revealed my deathmaster sniktch from my stormvermin and challenged his General (a mounted noble) and based on CR, I thought I had him beat. Well apparently I didn't because his general was uber strong in defense (almost unbelievably so) and since I don't have the HE book I couldn't check it. He wouldn't let me look through his book either, and that is where my questions arise (since I don't know their army specfic rules). So here are my questions:

1) do HE archers get to attack in 2 ranks? If yes, does this apply to stand and shoot charge reaction as well.

2) His Noble: Since my deathmaster sniktch has ASF and 6 atks with weeping blades I thought I would wreck his general in a 1500 point game. However when I challenged him and was hoping to annihalate him on CR (25 stormvermin with std and warbanner) I rolled up my hits and wounds. I get 4 wounds on 1st turn. This is where my question will come in- He claims that due to his armour and being on a barded horse and having a shield will give him a 1+ armour save. with the weeping blades he get -2 to his save, making it 3 plus. Okay, 2 wounds get through. "WAIT. I can reroll failed armour saves"... okay, seems a little out there with a 1+ save already, but okay. he makes one and flubs one. Okay, so now it's multiplied into D3 wounds. "wait. I have a 4+ ward save". My response was "really", what items does he have". His reply "i don't know, dragon armor and a magic shield and the barded horse". He wouldn't let me see his book and we couldn't confirm it, but let's just say over 3 rounds of combat sniktch didn't do a single wound and he eventually charged my rear and I broke.

today I said I looked in my army builder and didn't see anything that would provide those saves, and the only thing I could find was dragon armor, a helmet that allows rerolls and light armour that gives a 4+ ward, which, when put together is 70 points, which is more than I assume a noble can take (I won't even get into him using dragon armour and the light armour at the same time). I called him on it this morning and he claims it's one item in the army book that gives him reroll failed armour saves, 4+ armour save (down to 1+ with barded horse and shield) and a 4+ ward save. He said it costs 55 points (remember I don't have the army book so I can't check that). when I told him that I think his noble can only take 50 pts in magic items his response was "oh ya it's 50 pts and it's one item and it's called something of defense". WOW. either that is the greatest magic item ever or he is full of poo.

3) One final question, he also had a banner that added D3 power dice a turn. Can he take that in a 1500 point game? He also said he had a banner that gave him +1 to casting rolls. can he take both.

I know it's an extremely long-winded post but it really bugged me that my buddy would knowingly break the rules like that. Especially since he's the type of guy that won't let you go over the point limit by even 1 point. Thanks to anyone that can provide insight.

Hallo mate,
Got the book here so I'll try and help out.

1. Archers dont get to fight in two ranks
(Seaguard can shoot bows and fight in three ranks with their spears though)

2. the talisman, vembrances of defense will give the ward and reroll you describe but not an armour save
it costs the points he originally stated so only princes can wear those and there would be no points left for any enchanted shield.

Dragon armour = heavy armour with flame immunity so a 5+ (Not a magic item)
6+ for the shield
6+ for the Mount
6+ for the barding (Not sure about the mounted and barding saves as im a noob with the HE book but not the BRB)
So overall a 2+ Im thinking
With a second suit of light armour I guess that would = the 1+ but dont think you can wear multiple suits :P

3. The banner that gives power dice can be used in a 1500pt game. Its just cheap enough to be given to a SM/WL/PG/DP standard bearers as well as a Battle standard bearer.
Its possible for HE to put 6 magic standards on the table at 1500pts
(There will be nothing left to spend on tropps of course :D )
Finally there is a magic staff (Starwood) that gives the bearer +1 to cast, but this is only for the individual carrying it. (All HE mages get +1 to dispell)

So overall some things are possible but I think I would definately be calling shenanigans and asking to see an army list, especially from someone whos super strict on points themselves

Edit: Wot the faster typers above said :)

Desert Rain
20-05-2010, 19:37
As others have pointed out he was cheating big time, and if you ask someone to look at the rules for something in game and they don't want you to there is a 99% probability that they are cheating.
All the things he did, expect that archers, are possible to do, but you would need at least a 2000 points list to do it.

stripsteak
20-05-2010, 19:41
1) do HE archers get to attack in 2 ranks? If yes, does this apply to stand and shoot charge reaction as well.
no they don't


3) One final question, he also had a banner that added D3 power dice a turn. Can he take that in a 1500 point game? He also said he had a banner that gave him +1 to casting rolls. can he take both.
banner of sorcery needs to be taken on a BSB or a unit of the specials that can take banners.
there is no banner to increase casting. there is an arcane item that can be taken by a single wizard and applies to that caster only.
yes he can take both but they won't be on the same character you'll need a BSB/Unit and a mage (hero level mages have enough point allowance to take the casting item).

as for 2 is he new to the game? i played with someone that when learning he made up a list or two that included a lord under 2000pts. a HE lord would be able to do what you said. the vambraces for the reroll and ward, and then steed, dragon armor, enchanted shield for the 1+. that is doable with a lord allowance but not a heroes.
a hero can get a 1+ rerollable, with a 5+ ward though...i haven't seen it done often if ever though. guardian talisman for the ward, dragon armor, barded steed, shield, helm of fortune for the rerollable 1+ (if i did the math right). this would take his whole allowance though so he wouldn't be hitting back very hard.

theman151
20-05-2010, 19:52
thanks guys. Unfortunately he is a good friend of mine and our group is only 4 players so not likely I won't face him again. We have agreed that all army lists will now be submitted 24 hours in advance so our ref can check them over.

It's kind of unfortunate because he means well but I think he really only wants to play herohammer. That isn't our style and we chose to play WFB because of the strategy involved. I think he would be more suited to play 40K or maybe I will just bring some GI Joes along for him to play by himself (lol, we are all 30 year olds). He also hates the rumors of the 25% cap in 8th because he literally has bought as many characters/lords as he has regular units, although we tend to play 1500- 1850 games because we are still trying to work out all the rules (we all only started playing about 6 months ago).

T10
20-05-2010, 20:01
He wouldn't let me see his book and we couldn't confirm it

Huh? He won't let you see the army book?

Weird.

-T10

Paraelix
20-05-2010, 21:21
Noble could have had Helm of Fortune (6+ and reroll failed) for 25 pts to get the 1+ rerollable, and then taken the Guardian Phoenix for 25 (5+ ward).

BUT if ever an opponent doesn't know what they have, ask them to prove it or they don't get it. They should have with them an army list and a copy of their army book. And it is incredibly poor sportsmanship to not state items taken or to stop you looking at the book. In the future, I'd tell the guy at the start of the game that he needs to prove such things or he won't get them, and that if you have a query he will have to point you to the relevant rules in the book.

On 2 ranks high elf archers shooting... That hasn't existed since the previous army book. AND YET people keep referencing it in the 8th ed rumours. Wtf? Doesn't anyone read their army books?

Herminard
20-05-2010, 21:35
Oh nice trick! How about buying 8th edition as a spearhead and decline to show your fabulous new magic lores?

vinush
20-05-2010, 21:42
Sounds like he's a cheating SOB.

Call shenanigans and next time you play him, "accidentally" take an item that is more expensive than he is allowed.

THE \/ince

sorberec
20-05-2010, 21:52
Its possible for HE to put 6 magic standards on the table at 1500pts

Actually they can field 7. BSB, 5 Special Choices and 1 core unit can take a magic banner, although as you said, there's going to be even less of an army on the field than normal.

sorberec
20-05-2010, 21:54
On 2 ranks high elf archers shooting... That hasn't existed since the previous army book. AND YET people keep referencing it in the 8th ed rumours. Wtf? Doesn't anyone read their army books?

It keeps getting referenced because the rumour for 8th is that bows will get to shoot in 2 ranks. This applies to everyone's archers, not just HE.

Faeslayer
20-05-2010, 22:01
Huh? He won't let you see the army book?

Weird.

Seriously weird.

I'd never play that dude again.

jamesterjlrb
20-05-2010, 22:02
I mainly play 40k but still, i play a fairly competitive army and so against less experienced opponents i play nicely, that is to say i give them benefit of the doubt on ranges etc. and don't worry hugely about maxing wound allocation in my favour. If s.o. tried to not let me look at their book (apart from the fact as a tourny gamer i know most of the rules) i would ask the store if i could borrow their copy of the relevant book (i mainly play in GW's) and then procede to systematically wipe their army off the table. I would check every dubious range, pull them up on every rules point and maximise wound allocation in my favour. Failing that, i would simply pack up and wait to play someone else, making it clear to others that my opponent was likely a cheat and i would not reccomend playing him for any reason. I'm sorry not to have answered your question but someone not showing you their book annoys me.

Fall from grace
21-05-2010, 00:55
he claims it's one item in the army book that gives him reroll failed armour saves, 4+ armour save (down to 1+ with barded horse and shield) and a 4+ ward save. He said it costs 55 points (remember I don't have the army book so I can't check that). when I told him that I think his noble can only take 50 pts in magic items his response was "oh ya it's 50 pts and it's one item and it's called something of defense". WOW. either that is the greatest magic item ever or he is full of poo.

He could only get this by taking Vambraces of Defence at 55pts and Armour of Protection at 45pts which also counts as light armour so he couldn.t take the Dragon armour with that so he would only have a 3+ armour save but all this costs 100pts which is twice as much as Noble is allowed to take.

The guy you were playing sounds like a tw*t to me, and you can assume I mean twit if you like.

Fall from grace
21-05-2010, 01:02
Doesn't anyone read their army books?

Apparently we're the only ones left.

enyoss
21-05-2010, 01:13
He could only get this by taking Vambraces of Defence at 55pts and Armour of Protection at 45pts which also counts as light armour so he couldn.t take the Dragon armour with that so he would only have a 3+ armour save but all this costs 100pts which is twice as much as Noble is allowed to take.


Actually, Vambraces of Defence, Enchanted Shield and dragon armour would fit the bill, but it's still a no-go, coming in at 65 points for the Magic Item allowance.

To be honest, there are just so many things wrong here I wouldn't know where to start! :)

amysrevenge
21-05-2010, 20:50
Sounds like you've been cleared up so far on the rules.

Here's what I'd recommend: start up a tradition of everyone showing their opponent their list after every game. Especially if you all are just starting up, this seems to me to be a great way to get more familiar with the ins and outs of list building in general, even if there was no concern at all about rules compliance.

In my club, anyway, there would be a lot of constructive advice passed back and forth, even between rivals. We all want to play good, fun games against comparable lists run by comparably skilled players.


He wouldn't let me look through his book either,

You can always pop into a local game store and flip through the book yourself - the questions you have wouldn't take too much searching to answer so it's not like you'd have to stand there in the store reading a whole book for an hour. Are you in Saskatoon? I used to practially live at Dragon's Den back in the late 90s...

theman151
21-05-2010, 21:42
You can always pop into a local game store and flip through the book yourself - the questions you have wouldn't take too much searching to answer so it's not like you'd have to stand there in the store reading a whole book for an hour. Are you in Saskatoon? I used to practially live at Dragon's Den back in the late 90s...

I actually live in Regina. We aren't really loyal to a specific LGS but we play at the house of one of the guys in the gaming group. Like I said were just a couple of guys with a night to spare each week and some disposable income to spend on expensive plastic soldiers. We have gone out and bought all the guides for reference to use on game nights so we shouldn't run into that problem again. Between the four of us we should have every army in some form or another.

rtunian
22-05-2010, 02:50
Actually, Vambraces of Defence, Enchanted Shield and dragon armour would fit the bill, but it's still a no-go, coming in at 65 points for the Magic Item allowance.

isn't dragon armor classified as magic armor? if so, then your setup would have 2 magic armors, as the enchanted shield is magic armor

bludsturm
22-05-2010, 04:06
Dragon armor itself is not (it's just special heavy armor). There is a special "magic item" armor (Armor of Caledor) which is magic dragon armor with an unimprovable 2+ save, I believe.

rtunian
22-05-2010, 15:07
Dragon armor itself is not (it's just special heavy armor). There is a special "magic item" armor (Armor of Caledor) which is magic dragon armor with an unimprovable 2+ save, I believe.

thank you for clarifying

Aratus
22-05-2010, 20:28
His noble was illegal. He could get up to a 1+ armor save with a reroll (Helm of Fortune, Dragon Armor, Shield, and Barded Steed), but then the best ward save he could afford would have been a 5+ with sacred incense.

Still hard to kill, but he lied about the ward save. Next time I would demand the list, or just stop playing. If he doesn't want to play nice then why play at all.

Ibid
23-05-2010, 03:09
You said this was a group of four friends? Perhaps you and the other two dudes should persuade this dude to play by the rules. By persuade I mean thrash him repeatedly, violence among friends solves everything :D

Kalandros
23-05-2010, 03:56
His noble was illegal. He could get up to a 1+ armor save with a reroll (Helm of Fortune, Dragon Armor, Shield, and Barded Steed), but then the best ward save he could afford would have been a 5+ with sacred incense.

Still hard to kill, but he lied about the ward save. Next time I would demand the list, or just stop playing. If he doesn't want to play nice then why play at all.

Guardian Phoenix is the item. Sacred Incense is -1 to be hit by ranged attacks for the unit.

Ramius4
23-05-2010, 04:23
If anyone pulls that kind of thing on you, the burden of proof lies on them. If they cannot prove that the rules they are using exist, immediately begin to pick up your miniatures and end the game.

Life is too short to deal with dishonesty like that. That person isn't a friend to you if he's willing to blatantly lie to your face about something as trivial as a game. Sorry, but that's a fact.

PS. He could have had a 1+ armor save with a re-roll (using helm of fortune) and a 5+ ward save using the Guardian Phoenix for a total of 50 points. But that's a 5+ ward, not a 4+. There is no possible way he could have had what he said he did.

Urgat
24-05-2010, 17:04
Next time I would demand the list, or just stop playing. If he doesn't want to play nice then why play at all.

That's what I do if a friend did that to me. I'd just get up and say "fine, I'm off doing whatever, tell me when you've changed your mind and we'll resume the game".


Life is too short to deal with dishonesty like that. That person isn't a friend to you if he's willing to blatantly lie to your face about something as trivial as a game. Sorry, but that's a fact.

No it's not. My best buddy used to cheat against me, he'd roll his dice behind some building and would pick them up before I could check them, and he did so until one day he did that while his girlfriend was watching and she shooted at him "stop cheating you ***!". Appart from being a hella funny way to end it (he really never did it after that, he was all red and ashamed, that was quite a sight), what I want to say is that he's my best buddy for a reason (for more than one reason, of course), and having him cheat in a game doesn't suddenly turn him into a worthless piece of trash, right? He's the guy who'd pick me up in the gutter if I ended there, regardless of weither he turned a few 3s into 4s in a warhammer game. You say it yourself, it's just a game, a trivial matter.

Tae
24-05-2010, 17:35
Life is too short to deal with dishonesty like that. That person isn't a friend to you if he's willing to blatantly lie to your face about something as trivial as a game. Sorry, but that's a fact.

And if you're willing to disown someone who cheats at "something as trivial as a game" then I daresay you're not a friend to them either.

rtunian
24-05-2010, 17:55
And if you're willing to disown someone who cheats at "something as trivial as a game" then I daresay you're not a friend to them either.

this probably isn't your meaning, tae, but what you have said can be construed as, "friends let friends cheat." you probably mean something more like "friends forgive transgressions", but, for the legitimacy of my post, i'm going to assume the former ;)

in my opinion, "friends don't try to cheat friends." if i can't trust you to be honest in something so unimportant as a friendly game of warhammer, then how can i trust you when there is something real at stake?

seriously... how can i trust someone who i know will lie to my face? how can i call you my friend if i can't trust you?

Tae
24-05-2010, 18:13
this probably isn't your meaning, tae, but what you have said can be construed as, "friends let friends cheat." you probably mean something more like "friends forgive transgressions", but, for the legitimacy of my post, i'm going to assume the former ;)

in my opinion, "friends don't try to cheat friends." if i can't trust you to be honest in something so unimportant as a friendly game of warhammer, then how can i trust you when there is something real at stake?

seriously... how can i trust someone who i know will lie to my face? how can i call you my friend if i can't trust you?

What I was more aiming for was along the lines of "just because I don't want to play you at Warhammer doesn't mean I don't want to still be your friend".

Honestly I have lots of friends from lots of walks of life. Some I will get in a car with, others I wouldn't dare. Some I would trust with my kid (if I had one), others I wouldn't.. Etc. Etc.

Point being some I would trust to play WFB against, others I wouldn't. Just because they fall into the latter doesnt mean they are completely unworthy of my friendship.

gogs78
24-05-2010, 18:49
Your opponent should have been dragged outside by the hair and shot.

In my opinion.

theman151
25-05-2010, 19:27
having him cheat in a game doesn't suddenly turn him into a worthless piece of trash, right? He's the guy who'd pick me up in the gutter if I ended there, regardless of weither he turned a few 3s into 4s in a warhammer game. You say it yourself, it's just a game, a trivial matter.

This. so true. some people are just more, let's say, competitive and will do anything to win. I just want an excuse to get out of the house one night a week and have a good time with my buddies. It was just super-frustrating having a hidden 270 point assassin character get screwed by what I thought was an unrealistically equipped noble. In hindsight, with only the 5+ ward save and not a 4+ ward he would have been dead multiple times (as they were weeping blades which meant any unsaved would would have been d3 wounds and chances are, at 2 wounds, he would have been dead).

Crazydu
25-05-2010, 21:25
Archers get to shoot in 2 ranks if they are on a hill, but that's the only time a rank would do anything with archers currently.