PDA

View Full Version : storm banner problems



WolfVonhinslik
21-05-2010, 18:47
ok, im a DE player, i use harpies, xbowman, a D. Peg, and dark riders with xbows and shades...

my friend last night that plays skaven used the storm banner on me and it killed me seeing that i rely on my flying and xbows alot it lasted for 4 turns (he used it on turn 1) by the time it stoped, all i had was a lvl 2 Sorceress on foot (was on d Peg) and 4 Xbowman left in a 1000 pt battle

it was his bsb in a thing of storm vermin, what the hell do i do to stop this, if it wasnt for that i would have done ok

forgot t6o add, does the3 storm banner effect him too in terms of his ratling guns and such?

Ultimate Life Form
21-05-2010, 18:53
Here's your problem: You use a one-sided list. This may be effective against some armies but as you have seen may also be completely useless against others (the same actually holds true for the Storm Banner, but it is so useful Skaven really like bringing it to the battle). Since the Storm Banner is no spell there is *nothing* you can do to stop it, so I suggest you bring a list that's not so easily shut down next time. Another factor is luck; it is actually not very likely for the Banner to last for 4 turns and the one time I used it it fizzled right after I activated it, so it is really not that reliable. Pray for good (or bad, dependent on point of view) dice rolls.

Agoz
21-05-2010, 19:06
it affects skaven shooting that using BS skill to hit, so yes, it would effect his ratling guns, jezzails, slave slings, etc... It wouldn't effect any of his war-machines that don't use BS, because as I recall, they all have magical attacks.

Ultimate Life Form
21-05-2010, 19:09
The ultimate stupidity: a super shooty Skaven army that brings the Storm Banner crippling itself. >_<

However I'm sure there is someone out there who uses such a list...

Agoz
21-05-2010, 19:16
perhaps not a super shooty list, but I could see taking a ratling gun or two in an other wise melee army, just for kicks.

tmarichards
21-05-2010, 19:36
Try running a hydra or unit of dark riders into the unit (if you can get to it) and throwing as many attack as possible onto the BSB. The dark rider will need a bit of luck (2 S4 attacks and 2 S3 attacks with hatred, not sure what the odds of them killing him with that are), but the hydra will easily munch him- if he's got the Strom Banner, he can't have any other magic kit. A chariot will (I suspect) also have the desired effect.

But as mentioned above by wiser heasds than my own, taking a one-sided list will mean that this occasioanlly happens, although having it stya up for 4 turns is unlucky (or lucky, dpending on your point of view).

Gaargod
21-05-2010, 19:42
Stormvermin can carry the banner themselves, no need for a BSB. I assume that is what he has done. Attempt to kill that unit if necessary, otherwise live with it. Tis what happens with a one-sided list.

Incidentall, it staying up for 4 turns, including guaranteed, is a 1/128 chance (you roll at the start of both player's turns). It also cripple his non-warmachine own shooting of course. Its crazy good... but not that good.

WolfVonhinslik
22-05-2010, 00:18
Ahah i didnt know it was roll on both turns, we are all friends so i took his word for it. Plus he said it only effects me, for now on im gonna have him sow me stuff like that


And how do you deal with the underempire banner, i hate that thing

Ultimate Life Form
22-05-2010, 00:33
Uhm, avoid the unit?

Seriously, there is generally no way to 'deal' with banners other than to wipe out the unit carrying it, and since you usually don't know which unit has which banner (if any), it comes down to luck. If you know your opponent and he plays the same list always, try to steer clear of the unit. But really, a few S2 hits? I understand that T3 Elves don't take too kindly to it, but coupled with a half decent armor save it shouldn't cause many wounds.

DarkTerror
22-05-2010, 00:42
Ahah i didnt know it was roll on both turns, we are all friends so i took his word for it. Plus he said it only effects me, for now on im gonna have him sow me stuff like that


And how do you deal with the underempire banner, i hate that thing

I always recommend looking up the wording on magic items. You will find that often people don't know the exact way an item works, and you can use it to your advantage.

Jericho
22-05-2010, 01:53
I believe there is a Skaven spell that only affects enemy shooting, as the wizard can control the winds and steer them away from his own troops blah blah blah, fluff and rules don't always line up together ;) Anyway that's probably where he made the mistake.

w3rm
22-05-2010, 14:20
Banner of the underempire shouldnt give yout too much of a headache. 2d6 str 2 hits isnt really that great. But if your really concerned about the Stormbanner your best bet is to just wait it out. I probably wont last for more than a turn or 2 so just wait.

Von Wibble
23-05-2010, 11:06
Just to give numbers, on average the Banner of Underempire causes 7 hits, 2.7 wounds, 2 casualties vs elves. Certainly very good for its points (+2 cr and 2 kills for the same cost as +1 CR!). But only fieldable on stormvermin or BSB, so restricted enough to be fair. I can't see many armies with 2 x stormvermin (if he wants stormbanner as well) so its not like you don't know where the banner is.

Also, doesn't the unit have to be BTB with the banner to be affected? In which case just avoid the front arc.

Btw, was it ever FAQ'd that the stormbanner was 1 use only? I certainly would play it that way if I used it but currently I believe a rules lawyer can correctly claim otherwise.

AtmaTheWanderer
23-05-2010, 14:50
Btw, was it ever FAQ'd that the stormbanner was 1 use only? I certainly would play it that way if I used it but currently I believe a rules lawyer can correctly claim otherwise.

Yes, this was FAQ'd to be one use only.

Kayosiv
26-05-2010, 08:32
The problem is that the storm banner is designed to stop everything in your list. Skaven have no flyers, no (reliable) fast units as everything in their army is movement 6 or lower. They compensate for this by powerful anti armor shooting with jezzails, and two powerful anti-fly and shooting abilities, one is a spell and one is that banner. The spell can be dispelled like any spell, and the banner is hampered by it being expensive, restricting who can take it, as well as the liklihood of only working 1-2 turns most of the time (roll on each player turn, not each full turn).

The banner only becomes a problem when it can be put in a unit of storm vermin that is unbreakable, and that can only be when it is pushing a screaming bell, which can only be taken at 2000+ points. In a 1,000 game, the solution is to kill that unit, or kill the BSB carrying it.

If you "can't do that" the problem is not with the banner, but your list itself. You seem to have no ranked units, no knights, no monsters, and rely on skirmishers and shooting. You've built a harasser gunline list, and it is the exact thing the stormbanner is designed to stop. Except your entire army is that thing, not just part of it.

1,000 points never has been super balanced, so I would suggest moving up higher if you two have the models, or trying to produce a list with a little more of everything if you can't do that. Proxy different things and play a few games to see what you like and what you need to work on. There are very few bad units in a darkelf list, experiment.

Bladelord
26-05-2010, 15:39
Plague Monks can take the Storm Banner & Plague monks can become unbreakable at 1000pts:P

Dungeon_Lawyer
27-05-2010, 02:47
Here's your problem: You use a one-sided list.

yup! Try to develop a list that is more tactically flexible--You kind of deserved to get your ass handed to you by the stormbanner-:p but legally and its a shame your buddy cheesed you--