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Arkh
24-05-2010, 21:05
So, I played my first game with the current list of 8th edition rumours and I have the following wonderful news to report.... Silver Helms are fieldable again!

Silver Helms fielded 5x2 are not strictly better than Dragon Princes, however, with the changes in 8th edition I can easily see a unit of 10 Silver Helms becoming a staple in my HE army. They can fight in two ranks, break ranks on the flank/rear, and re-roll hits usually (so don't suffer from rubber lance syndrome).

Dragon Princes clearly still have their place, particularly if the environment continues to be dominated by demons (fire immunity plays a big role against demons). As such I will continue to field a 6x1 unit of Dragon Princes, but it is really nice to be able to take my Silver Helms off of their long time bench and starting rolling over enemies with a 5x2 or perhaps 6x2 unit of them.

enyoss
25-05-2010, 00:26
We can but hope! I hadn't actually thought of the re-rolls in terms of silverhelms, but it would make them a lot better (er, duh!). Rubber lance syndrome is just a nightmare with these guys.

Sadly, for 70pts more you can double your attacks and have the option to take a magic banner with Dragon Princes, which is probably still worth the money.

GodlessM
25-05-2010, 00:50
Actually you'd only increase your attacks x1.5, as the second rank only gets a single attack each.

bluemage
25-05-2010, 01:49
You would still need to bring more then 10 so you can absorb atleast a few casulties from shooting and magic. The rumour is that you need two ranks in order to cancel ranks. So that's something to keep in mind.

enyoss
25-05-2010, 01:57
Actually you'd only increase your attacks x1.5, as the second rank only gets a single attack each.

True... where was my rumour hat when I wrote that, eh? :) Well, in that case they will be giving dragon princes a run for their money, and that is an encouraging thought.

Ramius4
25-05-2010, 02:55
And 2 ranks of DP's makes Stone Throwers very very happy to see :-)

Arkh
25-05-2010, 03:02
Yeah, DPs are going to continue to only be fielded in a single rank. I am fairly certain that will be the case for most cav with multiple attacks.

Another cav unit that is going to start to see a lot more play is White Wolves. Fighting in two ranks with permanent +2 S is pretty huge. Especially if there is a Priest in the unit.

Harwammer
25-05-2010, 13:44
Interesting.

12 silverhelms + character are similarly priced to 9 dragon princes + character.

Which unit would Warseer members prefer to use and how would it be deployed?

Von Wibble
25-05-2010, 19:23
Depends on how shooty the enemy are.

If they have access to missile fire then the silver helms edge it since losing just 1 dragon prince to considerably reduce the units power is just too great a risk.

I would use them as a reserve unit, placed near a chariot (I feel the tiranoc chariot gains a lot from 8th edition btw). That way they can combine charge to put serious hurt on any enemy weakened by missile fire from the front, and also have the option to engage the flank of any enemy stuck against spears / white lions.

That said, I don't think the dragon princes optimal role is in units bigger than 6. As is already said, the attacks from the rear rank are 1 each so you pay a huge premium for that. 6 man units still pack a punch charging into an enemy flank as tehy only need to kill enough to reduce an enemy rank bonus to less than +3 to do their job (very likely against all but teh largest of units), and as always, the unit is sufficiently cheap that its loss is not a total disaster.

I can see high elves in general remaining all about combined arms and working together. I am pleased to say that it seems as though the weaker elementsof the list have been nicely boosted with the new edition.

Arkh - why does the Priest make a difference? His hatred reroll benefits the +2S lance cavalry just as much in round 1 and has no effect ni subsequent rounds.

Edit - I can't remember but do Dragon Princes have I6? This could make a key difference in rerollability compared to Silver Helms if it is the case.

Xyon
25-05-2010, 19:34
I honestly think reavers will be seen more now, free 12" move before turn 1 means most war machines will be charged turn 1 if they roll high enough on charge distance, or can be supported by magic, throw in a character on unbarded horse. I havent seen anyone field reavers in a long time, and with good reason, they're not worth it in 7th, but in 8th they should do better!

Von Wibble
25-05-2010, 19:41
Certainly reavers gain from this, also the 50% special thing means you can easily fit a unit in without worrying about slots. However, remember that reavers can't break ranks. They will be strictly war machine hunters it seems.

Arkh
25-05-2010, 19:49
Arkh - why does the Priest make a difference? His hatred reroll benefits the +2S lance cavalry just as much in round 1 and has no effect ni subsequent rounds.



I wasn't trying to say having a priest in a white wolf unit is better than a traditional knightly order unit. I was simply stating that the role of a priest is dramatically increased in 8th edition.

Dragon Princes are Initiative 6 yes, which is a massive difference to the Silver Helm's Initiative 5 now whereas it didn't used to matter at all.

Von Wibble
25-05-2010, 19:55
I see. Yes, the priest is certainly even more potent in this regard.

Looks like dragon princes get the nod vs dark elves and in civil wars for sure!

Bladelord
26-05-2010, 15:42
Dragon Princes are Initiative 6 yes, which is a massive difference to the Silver Helm's Initiative 5 now whereas it didn't used to matter at all.

Hm, that will help against other High Elves just...:rolleyes:

Punjoke
27-05-2010, 07:29
Is the rumor that you need to meet or exceed the enemies initiative to re-roll hits? If you have to exceed it, I6 will be very helpful vs Warriors of Chaos.

Monodominant
31-05-2010, 11:27
I had gotten tired of keeping my silver helms on the self so i went ahead and converted all 12 of them into dragon princes... and now they went and made them decent again.... grrrr...

as for reavers i almost always used 1 unit of 5 in 2250p games for ETC, they were nice with tactical flee and for machines or to support the dragon princes with a second charge...