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View Full Version : Tomb Kings or Dark Elves..Convince me either way



Triple7s
27-05-2010, 14:04
Hey all,

So with the 8th edition fantasy on the horizon, I find myself looking at warhammer fantasy armies, and I believe the general conclusion i've reached is that after i finish my Eldar, i'll be going for a fantasy force...the only problem i'm having is which one.

I know it'll be all cavalry, or as near to all cavalry as it can be. I've heard good things about chaos knights, but i've got a chaos force in 40k so would rather stay away from pointy things and blood gods for now. The two armies that stick out to me personally are Tomb Kings and Dark Elves, but I honestly can't decide which to go for out of the two.

Dark Elves have the awesome looking Cold One Cavalry, and look to have some good long range firepower to support, but the stupidity aspect puts me off somewhat..i'd rather not have half my army stumbling aimlessly into cannon fire. Also, theres the typical elf weakness to consider.

Whereas the Tomb Kings, from everything i've heard, seem to be a notoriously tricky army to get to grips with, and skeletons are, for want of a better word, crap statistically. If I was to go with TK, it'd likely be an all chariot force with a king converted from the Settra kit, but I have no experience with TK so I don't exactly know what they're like in game.

Any help or advice for either army would be greatly appreciated :)

Mike3791
27-05-2010, 14:09
Right now it would be the general concenus that DE are a better army, also the TK book is severely out of date(especially with some of the new changes in 8th). However it is rumored that a new TK book will be released early in 8th ed

Frosty_TK
27-05-2010, 14:16
I play both, and the Tomb Kings are one thing first and foremost: dead reliable. They move like you want, they cast what you want and they never ever flee. I came from the Empire, and really looked for this reliability. You can have a great "cavalry" force with a little more variety than the Dark Elf one. Just don't expect it to be fast if you don't bring enough magic along. But though you can still have fun, starting them now would be a risk. A risk because rumours of a new army book are afloat, and waiting for that would be my first suggestion.
Concerning the Dark Elves, I've just now had a game, where the Knights were stupid in four out of six turns, and on the last turn I moved 'em as if they were stupid just out of spite. But that tends to be an exception, and if it isn't, you'll remember it for quite a while ^^
If you like the models more, go for these.

Just a hint though: The most diverse all cavalry army you can muster is, I think, the Empire.

Mike3791
27-05-2010, 15:49
Just a hint though: The most diverse all cavalry army you can muster is, I think, the Empire.

How is Empire diverse in calvary? They have 2 units, knights and pistoliers/outriders. Not any more diverse most other armies

willowdark
27-05-2010, 16:03
DE don't make a good Cav force. They are an infantry and monster based army with a medium-good cav unit. At ld9, CoK should fail Stupidity once in every game, and certainly 2 fails is possible.

It's also worth pointing out that infantry is getting all the love of 8th ed, so all cav forces will find themsleves in a lot of protracted combats that won't easily swing in there favor.

I actually think Empire is the best choice for all/mostly cav. I don't know if its diverse, but it certainly is cheap. You can field quite a number of Knights in 2 rank units, which you'll need to break ranks. Most armies are paying top dollar for their knights already in units of 5 and 6. And you'll have cheap infantry to counter the big advantages that all infantry will have against cav.

Ultimate Life Form
27-05-2010, 16:07
You already know the most important things. You have a certain understanding of the armies' workings now, so now it comes down to style to decide.

Tomb Kings are currently on the bottom in pretty much every regard but will most likely be in for an update relatively soon (I hear first rumors of early 2011) while DE are relatively new, so that may be one thing to consider as well.

bluemage
27-05-2010, 16:49
Is there a reason you don't want to play bretonnians? As far as all cav go, they're really the best.

Eumerin
27-05-2010, 16:49
I run both.

In theory, Dark Elves are hard hitting but fragile. There are a couple of units that tend to buck that trend and get the lion's share of attention as a result (both in use and in complaints). On the other hand, when you win people may blame your army instead of your skill as a player.

Tomb Kings are, as mentioned, an army that does exactly what you tell it to do. They're tricky to use, particularly in the current environment, and they can be difficult to win with particularly depending on your opponent. You're probably going to lose a lot with them right at first - moreso than you would with Dark Elves.

Of course, keep in mind that we're still only making guesses about how 8th Edition will affect both armies. So you may want to hold off until July to make your investment.

Chiron
27-05-2010, 18:21
If you like cav avoid Tomb Kings, while Chariots are great the Horsemen leave a lot to be desired

Frosty_TK
28-05-2010, 07:13
How is Empire diverse in calvary? They have 2 units, knights and pistoliers/outriders. Not any more diverse most other armies

Well. You've got the elite heavy cav, the non elite heavy cav, pistoliers and the only dedicated mounted missile unit in the whole game in form of the outriders.
Fluff wise you have the Knights Panther, Order of the Sun(?), Reiksguard and White Wolves. If you want you can also throw in some Ulans from Kislev, which seems a rather natural alliance. Of course it's just my oppinion, and I'm biased since there's a huge stack of Empire looking at me everytime I enter the living room.

As mentioned here, Bretonnians trump that, but I had forgotten all about them...

Concerning the heavy cavalry of Khemri: Their use is indeed heavily disputed. But I was under the impression that a chariot force would comply to the authors idea of a cavalry force.

TheMaster
28-05-2010, 09:11
Chariot armies do look awesome

DarkMark
28-05-2010, 10:21
If you're buying today then DE, but if you can wait then consider TK. Don't forget the superb dark riders of the DE, or the much overlooked chariot they can also field.

The DE book has a lot of builds in it, and you won't be disappointed with it.

Heimagoblin
28-05-2010, 15:03
I have many all cavalry armies and I have ranked them based on competativenss and enjoyement here.

1. Warriors of Chaos
2. Brettonians
3.Dark elves

Gethin9
28-05-2010, 18:48
i'd go with dark elfs at the moment, because Tomb kings are a bit outdated, but logicaly they should be redone soon

Eumerin
28-05-2010, 20:28
One question to clarify is, "Why are you specifically interested in cavalry?" With a bit more information about this point it might be easier to provide the information that you need to make an informed decision - or possibly point you elsewhere instead.

Charistoph
29-05-2010, 07:27
May I point out that you can get a lot of cavalry out of the Wood Elves Army Book as well. They were doing Missile Cavalry before the Humans learned that furs could cover nakedness. Glade Rider movement doesn't count against their shooting, either. True, all the cavalry of the Wood Elves is Fast or Flying, but that only interferes with taking the hits.

It can be a paint giving the hits to the Wood Elves.

With a Special Character, Beastmen's cavalry can be core, followed up by a lot of rather fast moving monsters.

That being said, of the two of the OP's original options, Dark Elves would probably be a better transition into Fantasy as they can participate in every aspect of the game, are very flexible in army build, and fight closer to how your Eldar play, while the Tomb Kings of Khemri take a more Necron approach.

tetrishermit
29-05-2010, 07:35
Dark Elves are both fun to play and a very strong army, I would go with them.

~PrometheuS~
29-05-2010, 08:54
DE don't make a good Cav force. They are an infantry and monster based army with a medium-good cav unit. At ld9, CoK should fail Stupidity once in every game, and certainly 2 fails is possible.

It's also worth pointing out that infantry is getting all the love of 8th ed, so all cav forces will find themsleves in a lot of protracted combats that won't easily swing in there favor.

I actually think Empire is the best choice for all/mostly cav. I don't know if its diverse, but it certainly is cheap. You can field quite a number of Knights in 2 rank units, which you'll need to break ranks. Most armies are paying top dollar for their knights already in units of 5 and 6. And you'll have cheap infantry to counter the big advantages that all infantry will have against cav.

I have pretty bad luck with my cold one chariots :( lost a game last night because of stupidity....

4 out of 6 turns my chariot was stupid, and if one wasnt stupid the other was... been that way for the last 3 games, having a run of bad luck i think