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goodz
29-05-2010, 00:18
How do you target a char in a unit shooting/in hand to hand.

Close combat:

If there is no challenge can all models in base contact attack the hero, (minus 1 for every wound he has done?)

If there is a challenge do you play our 1 round of combat between the two heroes? Or until one hero dies?

Ranged.

Can you aim at a hero in a unit with archers/warmachine/etc or how does duck in cover work

Ultimate Life Form
29-05-2010, 00:41
All models that are in base contact with an enemy may fight. In fact, they must fight and will do so unless they stepped up after their predecessor kicked the bucket.

The exception to this is the challenge, however it still works normal in all other regards and thus may last several turns (and in fact frequently does).

You may not target characters within units unless a) they're Unit Strength 5 or higher or b) there's less than 5 regular rank and file models left. Templates will hit him; however then he's entitled his look out sir roll again unless he's US 5 or higher.

Yrrdead
29-05-2010, 00:46
Smoked by ULF.

Here are some relevant page numbers to go along with ULF's post.

Close Combat, Which Models Fight? pg 32

Characters, Shooting, Close Combat, Challenges. pg 74-77

goodz
29-05-2010, 01:10
k everything was as we normally play ( we share 1 brb and it lives at my friend whom we play ats house) The other day he said he thinks you do the challenge until either one dies or someone wins by doing a wound and i was kind of like wtf? (worked out because my chaos knight champion ended up dealing 2 wounds and killing his general...)

Thanks for the help! My GF doesn't even know what warhammer is yet, and I think it will be a month or two more before she learns:)

tarrasque
29-05-2010, 23:00
after the first round of the challenge in the next round you are still in the same challenge. so in a way it never ends until one of them is death you only make all your attacks once each cc phase

TheDarkDaff
30-05-2010, 01:46
after the first round of the challenge in the next round you are still in the same challenge. so in a way it never ends until one of them is death you only make all your attacks once each cc phase

or one side flees from the combat.

You should also check the Skaven FAQ for targeting characters with Magic line spells as they now allow a Look out Sir! roll for the character to avoid damage.

vinush
30-05-2010, 08:40
you mean they didn't get look out before? We always play that the look out roll can be taken vs spells like burning head, etc.

TheDarkDaff
30-05-2010, 13:05
you mean they didn't get look out before? We always play that the look out roll can be taken vs spells like burning head, etc.

So did i but someone here pointed out that Look out Sir! only applies to hits from templates, however the ruling about Crack's Call esentially rules that those spells that hit everything in a line are templates of a sort.

RanaldLoec
30-05-2010, 13:24
Cannons can Target characters in a unit

Lord 0
30-05-2010, 23:17
They have ever been a line template though, and grant the Look Out Sir save.

TheDarkDaff
30-05-2010, 23:43
Sorry for confusing people, i'll actually give the whole rule rather than just little parts of it.

Look out Sir! works against Warmachines that don't follow the usual targeting restrictions and Template based attacks (pg 74-75 BRB). This leaves a small hole as some people will argue that line spells don't use a template and they definately are not warmachines. I always argued that the line drawn by such spells would be a form of template. Others would say if you don't put down a physical plactic template then it isn't one.

Sorry for the confusion.

stuntyKing
01-06-2010, 19:23
I was to understand that u only get it against
wArmachienes and spells with templates. But magic Missels can't target characters/champs because they follow similar rules as to shooting

Adran
02-06-2010, 08:28
You may not target characters within units unless a) they're Unit Strength 5 or higher or b) there's less than 5 regular rank and file models left. Templates will hit him; however then he's entitled his look out sir roll again unless he's US 5 or higher.

This isn't quite right. Or probably its just phrased in a way that might mislead people that don't know the exact rules
You cannot target characters when there are less than 5 rank and file models, but they can be hit. This is done by assigning equal hits to each model in the unit, and then randomising the remaining ones.

You only get Look out sir as long as there are 5 rank and file models in the unit from the template attack


Phil

TheDarkDaff
03-06-2010, 00:10
This isn't quite right. Or probably its just phrased in a way that might mislead people that don't know the exact rules
You cannot target characters when there are less than 5 rank and file models, but they can be hit. This is done by assigning equal hits to each model in the unit, and then randomising the remaining ones.
Please check your BRB again.


If a character is part of a unit that includes at least five rank-and-file models (ie, non-characters), he cannot be shot at. Any shots against the unit will hit ordinary troopers and not the character.This is very much the opposite of what you have just said. It then goes on to say that if the unit has less than five R'n'F troops, you have to allocate hits to everymember in the unit then randomise the remaining hits.


You only get Look out sir as long as there are 5 rank and file models in the unit from the template attack


Phil
This rule has similar restrictions to the "characters inside units" rule. Those being at least five Rnak-and-file models and the Character has to be less than Unit Strength 5. If you meet those 2 criteria then you can get a Look out Sir! roll and can't be hit by normal missle fire.

Lord 0
04-06-2010, 04:53
Further more, I seem to remember that Champions don't count as rank and file for the purposes of determining if you need to randomise on the Lord or not.

Adran
04-06-2010, 07:27
Please check your BRB again.


Originally Posted by BRB,pg74
If a character is part of a unit that includes at least five rank-and-file models (ie, non-characters), he cannot be shot at. Any shots against the unit will hit ordinary troopers and not the character.

This is very much the opposite of what you have just said. It then goes on to say that if the unit has less than five R'n'F troops, you have to allocate hits to everymember in the unit then randomise the remaining hits.


I can't see what I've said that disagrees with the rule book. The only possible thing I can think of is if you claim you can target a character with shooting if he is in a unit of less than 5 rank or file, and I don't believe the rulebook does allow that.
Expanding on what I said, and what the rule book says we get the following

1 character(US 1), one unit champion and 5 rank and file models - you hit with 20 shots, all the shoots are worked out against the unit. you cause 10 wounds which aren't saved. the 5 rank and file are dead as is the unit champion. The remaining 4 wounds are wasted as they can not hit the character. (although how this works if the champion has different saves to the unit, I do not know. I'd make something up with my opponent on the spot...)

1 character(US1), 1 unit champion and 4 rank and file is shot at. You target the unit because that us how you shoot. The Section on US5 models tells us this is an exception to the earlier rules. It is hit by twenty shots.
3 hits are done to the character, 3 to the champion and 12 to the rank and file. the remaining two are randomised (I'd role 2 d6 and do 1 hits the character, 2 hits the champion and 3-6 hits the unit but anyway works).
Lets say 1 wound done to the character, 3 to the unit champion and 3 to the rank and file. The unit now consists of the character (assuming it had more than 1 wound left) and 1 rank and file trooper. The excess wounds done to the unit champion are ignored.

If I've got something wrong, please tel me what, as I can't see a difference between what I said, and what is said in the rules.
Phil

Milgram
04-06-2010, 10:59
although how this works if the champion has different saves to the unit, I do not know.

that is just tough luck for the champion. no extra save for him.

TheDarkDaff
04-06-2010, 23:40
I can't see what I've said that disagrees with the rule book. The only possible thing I can think of is if you claim you can target a character with shooting if he is in a unit of less than 5 rank or file, and I don't believe the rulebook does allow that.
Expanding on what I said, and what the rule book says we get the following

Specifically the second sentance of what i quoted.


Any shots against the unit will hit ordinary troopers and not the character.
There is nothing that allows you to contradict this rule unless the unit is less than 5 R'n'F models. You can never hit the charater if this is the case, even if you hit a 20 strong unit 50 times. You can not hit the character.

stripsteak
05-06-2010, 16:26
Specifically the second sentance of what i quoted.


There is nothing that allows you to contradict this rule unless the unit is less than 5 R'n'F models. You can never hit the charater if this is the case, even if you hit a 20 strong unit 50 times. You can not hit the character.

he never said you could...
even his examples follow that rule. i'm confused

TheDarkDaff
05-06-2010, 22:24
he never said you could...
even his examples follow that rule. i'm confused
He did the first time. See the underlined part in his post. He has point blank said you can hit a character in a unit with more than 5 R'n'F troops when you can't, although his example doesn't back this up at all (it actually shows the correct way to do it).


This isn't quite right. Or probably its just phrased in a way that might mislead people that don't know the exact rules
You cannot target characters when there are less than 5 rank and file models, but they can be hit. This is done by assigning equal hits to each model in the unit, and then randomising the remaining ones.

You only get Look out sir as long as there are 5 rank and file models in the unit from the template attack


Phil

stripsteak
06-06-2010, 03:30
He did the first time. See the underlined part in his post. He has point blank said you can hit a character in a unit with more than 5 R'n'F troops when you can't, although his example doesn't back this up at all (it actually shows the correct way to do it).

reread what you just underlined
"You cannot target characters when there are less than 5 rank and file models, but they can be hit"

he was never talking about having more then 5 rank and file models

TheDarkDaff
06-06-2010, 07:43
Ignore me completely. I don't know how i missed that. Apologies all round. He is indeed correct and i need to read posts properly.