PDA

View Full Version : I want to get into Fantasy, but I have some questions...



Vox-Grill
29-05-2010, 21:49
Hi all. I play Chaos Space Marines in Warhammer 40k, but some very bad mojo happened. I looked at the Chaos codex when I jumped in, but it was the old one. Then, after I bought some marines and a rhino, I see the new one. Ignorance on my part. I started playing an army I didn't really want to play, but I already bought some which made it too late to switch. 40k makes me mad when one unit can clean up the entire board given some luck, such as Wraithguard with guide and fortune. Last night I allied with a Tyranids player in a 1500 game vs Tau and Eldar, and we won. But it was just the Tyranids who really did anything. I dislike most of the rules because they tend to favor certain armies. Then i looked at fantasy and saw a breathe of fresh air! More fair rules, more like underpowered things fighting each other than a clash of the titans. Will this be a good transition? Would you guys recommend I come to fantasy?

DigitalDogParty
29-05-2010, 21:53
I'd only recommend it if you truly are satisfied with your 40K situation. Not as a warning, but there are always regrets on switching over. I have played 40K for a very long time, but just recently started Fantasy myself. I've chosen Skaven as my beginning army, but I might start Warriors of Chaos due to the small numbers and mighty heroes. Fantasy does take some time to getting used to, but there is going to be a new rule book in July, so you might want to wait on that. It gives you time to think if you want to switch over. Also, an army to choose.

GuyLeCheval
29-05-2010, 22:01
Hi all. I play Chaos Space Marines in Warhammer 40k, but some very bad mojo happened. I looked at the Chaos codex when I jumped in, but it was the old one. Then, after I bought some marines and a rhino, I see the new one. Ignorance on my part. I started playing an army I didn't really want to play, but I already bought some which made it too late to switch. 40k makes me mad when one unit can clean up the entire board given some luck, such as Wraithguard with guide and fortune. Last night I allied with a Tyranids player in a 1500 game vs Tau and Eldar, and we won. But it was just the Tyranids who really did anything. I dislike most of the rules because they tend to favor certain armies. Then i looked at fantasy and saw a breathe of fresh air! More fair rules, more like underpowered things fighting each other than a clash of the titans. Will this be a good transition? Would you guys recommend I come to fantasy?


My only advice is waiting till next edition and then asking again ;)

~PrometheuS~
30-05-2010, 03:11
Hi all. I play Chaos Space Marines in Warhammer 40k, but some very bad mojo happened. I looked at the Chaos codex when I jumped in, but it was the old one. Then, after I bought some marines and a rhino, I see the new one. Ignorance on my part. I started playing an army I didn't really want to play, but I already bought some which made it too late to switch. 40k makes me mad when one unit can clean up the entire board given some luck, such as Wraithguard with guide and fortune. Last night I allied with a Tyranids player in a 1500 game vs Tau and Eldar, and we won. But it was just the Tyranids who really did anything. I dislike most of the rules because they tend to favor certain armies. Then i looked at fantasy and saw a breathe of fresh air! More fair rules, more like underpowered things fighting each other than a clash of the titans. Will this be a good transition? Would you guys recommend I come to fantasy?

Everything favours space marines lol, thats why i cant get back into 40k.....

Read the army books, find something you like, skaven or high elves would be a good start, as they will be in the new starter set

Warhammer has bad balance issues lol but may improve with new edition

Daredevil
30-05-2010, 03:31
Personally I like Fantasy more because I believe it requires more strategic insight and planning,
but honestly Fantasy has it's issues aswell.

I would suggest poking several Fantasy players at your local Warhammer wateringhole and seeing if you could borrow their armies for a couple of matches. That should leave you with a general impression.

But yeah, wait until the new edition releases first.

Kaelos the corrupt
30-05-2010, 19:27
I agree with them!

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 20:50
I wanna get into an army that's based on medium to high amounts of units, because I dread small, elite groups. Maybe throw in a good amount of magic too? I'm not making decisions yet because I know that 8th is coming out soon, but what are some suggestions that you guys have? I still have time to get into the fluff and into the general style of the army before I have to buy anything.

Artinam
30-05-2010, 20:57
Sounds like Empire ;), their Infantry blocks are getting a boost. Or maybe Skaven if you like painting a lot.

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 21:00
I wanted to do my best to stay away from humans, as I always do them for games and stuff. I want to spice it up. Skaven look very good to me. How are Tomb Kings and Goblins?

lordmetroid
30-05-2010, 21:28
I play Orkz in 40k, have always done so since the dawn of 3rd edition and I play Goblins in Blood Bowl. I just got into Fantasy and I was deadset on playing Skaven because I liked their rules that will both accidentally and intentionally kill your own army and the Skryre Warmachinery but then I watched a few battlereports from the user bluetablepainting on youtube(excellently made battle reports). That made me decide I wanted to play Orcs & Goblins in Fantasy.

Don't care about the rules, the power of the armies comes and goes. What really matter is what kind of army you want to play. Obviously for me, it is greenskins. Always going to be greenskins and nothing but greenskins. Orcs & Goblins are a crazy army to play, very random and unpredicatable and I made sure so choose the most random units possible by choosing to build a Night Goblin army. Pretty much everything is subject to random movement, random amount of damage, animosity, low morale and panics but I will have fun playing the army because I like it all.

Crovax20
30-05-2010, 21:32
Tomb Kings I would stay away from for the time being. Apperantly a new book is in the making and with 8th edition around the corner I see a lot of people saying they will be even more terrible in 8th...

Goblins require a certain mindset. You are playing with weedy little buggers, but they got a nice amount of tricks up their sleeve. You should however not mind your units doing nothing, or doing something you don't want them to do. I have just started collecting a (mostly) night goblin army and they are something of a rare occurance at my LGS, so the look on my opponents faces when their chaos warriors only are strength 3, thanks to nets is quite epic. With Goblins you are however able to field quite a few units, although night goblin combat blocks eat up quite a few points to become 'effective'. My main two blocks cost 225 points each, both carrying spears, fanatics and nets. With 8th around the corner it seems goblin armies are going to get a boost though, as you will be able to field more characters and have more weedy attacks.

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 21:42
My friends happens to want to get into Dwarves, so would going 50/50 on the 7th battleforce be worth it, if only for the models?

edit: Goblins seem really interesting to me. Nice and tricky, and there are lots of them. Plus, I love the models.

Morglum Necksnapper
30-05-2010, 21:51
I would suggest Skaven. Their tactics involve numerous troops, not just elite, and they will be part of the Warhammer 8th edition boxed set, meaning lots of models. So it would be a great start.

ScytheSwathe
30-05-2010, 21:57
My friends happens to want to get into Dwarves, so would going 50/50 on the 7th battleforce be worth it, if only for the models?

Only if you want the models, but yes. Its a bargain. just dont feel pushed into an army you dont want just because one of the units is available very cheap, and bear in mind that elves and skaven will be getting cheap models too. Soon.

:)

DigitalDogParty
30-05-2010, 22:10
I'd say...wait for the new starter set to come out so you can just buy it and get some nice plastic models for Skaven. You should go buy their army book soon and just get to know them a bit before picking out what you want when the new rule book releases.

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 22:30
Okay so at this point I'm at a crossroads between Skaven and Goblins. I'm not particularly swayed towards either of them, but I know one will be my army. Can you guys list some pros and cons of each of those armies?

Crovax20
30-05-2010, 22:34
My friends happens to want to get into Dwarves, so would going 50/50 on the 7th battleforce be worth it, if only for the models?

edit: Goblins seem really interesting to me. Nice and tricky, and there are lots of them. Plus, I love the models.

The BFSP is a nice way to start out for sure and with the prospect of 8th edition starter box a lot of retailers will start selling the 7th edition starter box at a discount. So keep that in mind.

I think an important part about goblins vs skaven is painting. Skaven is going to be a lot of brown and they might have wacky stuff going on but they just don't look as wacky compared to goblins. I find that with "furry" armies you have to watch out or you get a brown smudge army (it looks like a brown mess on the table). The hoods on the night goblins lend themselves to some nice patterns etc.. But again, a Goblin army won't be super competitive at the moment. But if you are mostly going to be playing against your friends dwarves and he doesn't go gunline, you should actually have a nice and reasonably balanced game.

Some Cons for a Goblin army
Low Leadership
Animosity, having a good chance of every unit doing nothing once per battle
Bad fighters
Random

Pro's
Characterful
Bad fighters, but you can field quite a few of them
Squigs!
Fast cavalry options as core
Cheap units
Random, this can work to your advantage because you can plan ahead for your randomness somewhat because of the cheap cost of units you can have redundancy. The opponent however usually doesn't plan for fanatics smashing through his units and squigs running amok :)

Skaven I can't comment too much on but, the pro's seem to be high leadership.. untill a unit starts running.. and cheap troops.

SPSchnepp2
30-05-2010, 22:34
Skaven are, at the moment, significantly more powerful than Orcs & Goblins. Beyond that... I have a lot more fun playing against O&G players than I do Skaven players, even if the lists are at relative parity of power.

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 22:43
Here is the way I see it. If it turns out that Goblins seem to be more my style then my friend and I can go 50/50 on the BFSP. If Skaven turn out to be the army it would probably be wiser to just buy the models because High Elves would be a waste for me. Do both armies have magic? I figured skaven have some pretty good mages, but with Goblins I could always add orcs or trolls (yay!) if I wanted to. Skaven are more competitive, that I know. Goblins can be a lot of fun though, and I imagine no matter how low the tier some lists can always fight against other armies.

Crovax20
30-05-2010, 22:52
Goblins can do magic just fine. Whats even better is that Greenskin magic isn't the typical a thunderbolt strikes from the sky, instead they get to stomp on units with a giant green foot, or units get pummeled by a flurry of green fists.

If you got a GW or a LGS in the vincinity I would recommend you giving them a visit and see if/when they have a game night and if its possible to try out either of the armies... If not I can only advice you to take a good long look at both the armybooks and the models and take the one that sounds and looks like the most fun to you.

Rochr
30-05-2010, 23:09
My friends happens to want to get into Dwarves, so would going 50/50 on the 7th battleforce be worth it, if only for the models?

edit: Goblins seem really interesting to me. Nice and tricky, and there are lots of them. Plus, I love the models.

Yea well, prepare to lose some with Goblins. Yea there will be some guys around there soon saying how they own people with Goblins but most of the time it will be an uphill battle. Especially if you are new to Fantasy.

But if you are in it for the fun and the models then sure, Battle for Skull Pass is a great deal.

Vox-Grill
30-05-2010, 23:16
Well, I wanna try and wait till 8th comes out soon. Maybe Goblins will get a boost there? I looked at adding trolls to the mix and it seemed pretty good. But then I see the awesomeness of the Doom Wheel or Warlock Engineer... It's so hard lol

Rochr
30-05-2010, 23:59
Skaven is definitely alot more competative than Goblins and as far as I see they will only be better in 8th.

Vox-Grill
31-05-2010, 00:14
I just read the Army Book. Skaven is definately it. Thanks guys! Should I purchase some basic things, like Clansrats, or just totally hold off until 8th?

lordmetroid
31-05-2010, 00:16
If you want to play an army containing clanrats you will need clanrats no matter if it is 7th or 8th edition.

Vox-Grill
31-05-2010, 00:27
Well I read that all Skaven armies need Clanrats in order to have other options. Like one squad of Clanrats allows a squad of Plague Monks (for example) and two squads of CRs will allow two squads of Plague Monks. Is that correct?

Carraway Effect
31-05-2010, 00:55
Well I read that all Skaven armies need Clanrats in order to have other options. Like one squad of Clanrats allows a squad of Plague Monks (for example) and two squads of CRs will allow two squads of Plague Monks. Is that correct?

That's an old rule from the previous Skaven book. The newest book does away with this rule. Make sure you're getting the most recent book: I've attached a picture of the cover.

That said, you'll still need clanrats for 90% of skaven lists. Like 40K, you are required to take a certain minimum of "troop" units (called "core" in Fantasy) in your list. Skaven have three* Core options: Clanrats, Skavenslaves, and Stormvermin.

Clanrats are your all-rounders. They're not the greatest fighters (since they're, y'know, Skaven), but they're cheap, so you can get a large ranked-up unit of them, and they'll do well enough.

Skavenslaves are great as sacrificial units. They can't fight their way out of a paper bag, but they're dirt cheap and you can take them in ridiculous numbers for next to nothing points-wise. Also, when they break from combat, they explode, dealing damage to all nearby units. But you don't want them to make up your entire battleline.

Stormvermin are tougher than clanrats and have better armor, but they're somewhat overcosted for what you get out of them. Really, there's only one reason to take them: They're the only unit in the army that can take a magical banner besides your Battle Standard Bearer, and almost every Skaven army wants to take the Storm Banner. If you don't want to waste part of your Hero allowance on carting the thing around, Stormvermin will do it in a pinch.

So yeah. Clanrats aren't strictly necessary anymore, but you'll still likely need them.



*Certain special characters in the army will allow you to take other things in place of core. Lord Skrolk makes Plague Monks into Core. Throt the Unclean makes Giant Rats and up to two units of Rat Ogres into core. Hence the other 10% of Skaven armies that don't need Clanrats.

lordmetroid
31-05-2010, 01:39
Skaven have other cores as well, rat swarms, big rats, nigh runners and so on.

SteelTitan
31-05-2010, 01:47
My vote is on skaven too.

But I would also like to mention not to give up on 40k...CSM might not be as fluffy as the previous dex but it is still fun to play (i play a death guard themed list). Also, your judgment on the 40k rules system is too harsh as most armies have a chance of winning if the player takes the time to go to a steeper learning curve than with some other armies.

Vox-Grill
31-05-2010, 01:57
I'm just used to fighting against against Eldar and Tau because that's what my local store people mostly have. I saw guys playing fantasy and it looked like they were having much more fun too. I'm not really giving up per se, as I would definately bring both armies to my local store. Fantasy just seems to be more my style than 40k, that's all.

SteelTitan
31-05-2010, 03:07
Ok, like that. It is just always sad to hear that someone gives up on either 40k or fantasy because of a 'different' codex. I dont think the CSM codex is as fancy or characterful as many others out there (not by a long shot) and I cant wait for the new dex to come (and I have good hope that the new one will be awesome considering the latest codexes and how characterful they are), whenever that will be, but it's definitely not a book to make you quit. So good to here that you're not out. Against Eldar and Tau CSM should definitely fare well, both armies are probably more difficult to play well than chaos anyway. Good luck with that and with fantasy of course!

Vox-Grill
31-05-2010, 03:11
In some cases I may just use the Blood Angels codex but still use my Chaos models. But Fantasy is more combat based, and there also seems to be more tactical thinking involved from the games that I watched. Thanks for the luck in fantasy!

DigitalDogParty
31-05-2010, 03:15
Okay, definitely buy clanrats by the butt load. Now that the new clanrat boxes can be made into slaves, it gives more variety. You can run just clanrats, or have 3/4 clanrats, 1/4 slaves for the luring and the tar pitting. As for Plague Monks, you don't have to use them. From my experience, they can be pretty useful for their points, but watch out for Frenzy. Also, don't go too heavy on them or it will bite you in the ****.

And with the new edition coming out, Plagueclaw Catapults look quite useful!

Vox-Grill
31-05-2010, 03:20
Well, I just used Plague Monks as an example. I'm making a 500 point list first and buying the models I see fit because those will most likely be heavily used anyway. I also don't wanna kill my wallet with bad models lol.

SteelTitan
31-05-2010, 10:11
Id probably go all plague-theme if ever start skaven...just love the models and the theme in general (coming from a death guard player :P). Never really thought about the drawbacks tho.

Im always surprised when ppl say fantasy is more strategic...it feels so horribly static to me...

Rochr
31-05-2010, 12:49
What I would do if I was to start a Skaven armys go onto Ebay or anyother online market and look for used armies being sold. Skaven is a horde army so you will need alot of models. Skavens good special choices like Weapon Teams, Jezzail, Wind Globadiers are all metal aswell and are pretty costly - Try find these second hand.

Buying one or two Battalions is a start for a Skaven player I think.

TeddyC
31-05-2010, 13:53
play both?

I have a iron snakes army build, not yet painted, ive not even played 40k since the edition with 3 separate books (wargear, codex and rulebook)

If you are thinking of doing a warhammer army I wouldnt go for anything thats too specialised. go for a good all rounder, if you dont know how to use an army youll have some bad games and bad results (which sounds like your 40k exerience)

Vox-Grill
03-06-2010, 03:57
So guys if I wanted to make a good Skaven list, maybe about 1k, what are some basic units that are generally always good to follow?

deggaroth
03-06-2010, 04:30
So guys if I wanted to make a good Skaven list, maybe about 1k, what are some basic units that are generally always good to follow?

I'd start with collecting a box of clanrats and a character of your choice(you pretty much need clanrats regardless of the skaven list). Once you have all this glued and painted, 8th ed will be out and we will have a better idea of what units will be good or bad.

Gorbad Ironclaw
03-06-2010, 08:00
Then i looked at fantasy and saw a breathe of fresh air! More fair rules, more like underpowered things fighting each other than a clash of the titans.

While it remains to be seen exactly how 8th turns out I think you are going down the wrong path with this.

The army balance is IMO much more out of whack in Warhammer than it is in 40k and it's still about powerful units/characters/monsters/magic smashing the opponent to bits to create localised advantages (or just being to tough to deal with).

The systems are a bit different and at face value the whole rank and flank systems seems to promote things like generic infantry units, but that's not really how the system works once you get playing it.

So if that's the expectation you are having I'd have a very careful look at 8th edition and see how it turns out before I committed to it.