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Hagnag
01-06-2010, 04:05
My questions are in reference to the Techpriest Enginseers and his Servitors, and some of their options and basic abilities.

1) I am not sure how many melee attacks the Techpriest Enginseer have. Reading on page 93 of the Imperial Guard codex he is listed with a single normal attack, and then he has a Las Pistol, a Power Weapon, and a Servo Arm. So, does it mean, +1 from normal listed attack, +1 because he has a Las Pistol that acts as a second hand-to-hand weapon, +1 from a Power Weapon (what weapon that is I don’t know), and + 1 from the Servo Arm for a total of +4 attacks normally and +5 if he charges?

2) The Techmarine, apparently a fellow of the techno-brethren, can substitute his simple pistol for a lot of nice weapons. If I read the IG rules correctly for the Techpriest Enginseer he cannot substitute anything, right?

3) In reference to the Techpriest Enginseer’s Servitors, the IG Codex says he can take 5 of them. Can the Techpriest Enginseer have 3 Techno Servitors, and then 2 Gun Servitors with either 2 HB, or 2 Plasma Cannons, or 2 Multi-Meltas? He cannot take 1 Tech Servitor, 2 Plasma Cannons, and 2 Heavy Bolter servitors, right?

4) Servitors have two attacks or just one? Those Servo-Arms appear to be held in one hand, and the other hand is free or has another mechanical construct, but it does not count towards a second hand-to-hand weapon, right?

5) Are the Techpriest Enginseers and their Servitors part or not of the normal structure for army slots? I read they don’t count and you can just take them but the more I read the more confused I got.

6) Can this Techpriest Enginseer and his 5 Servitors be attached to another unit, such as an IG Command Unit, or to an allied unit from another army?

7) Last, if someone be kind enough to point me in the right direction for specific articles on how to correctly use these models and give them the correct load out of weapons for different circumstances.

If this kind of post is wrong or just wrong for this forum can an admin please delete it and send me a pm to help in my ongoing edification. Otherwise, thank you very much for any help.

MasterDecoy
01-06-2010, 05:34
I hope this is the right place for rookie questions; I am afraid I got a couple and trust not to break any protocols. In any event, my questions are in reference to the Techpriest Enginseers and his Servitors, and some of their options and basic abilities.

Techpriest Enginseer WS=3, BS=3, S=3, T=3, W=1, I=3, A=1, LD=8, SV=3+
Servitor WS=3, BS=3, S=3, T=3, W=1, I=3, A=1, LD=8, SV=4+

1) I am not sure how many melee attacks the Techpriest Enginseer have. Reading on page 93 of the Imperial Guard codex he is listed with a single normal attack, and then he has a Las Pistol, a Power Weapon, and a Servo Arm. So, does it mean, +1 from normal listed attack, +1 because he has a Las Pistol that acts as a second hand-to-hand weapon, +1 from a Power Weapon (what weapon that is I donít know), and + 1 from the Servo Arm for a total of +4 attacks normally and +5 if he charges?

2) The Techmarine, apparently a fellow of the techno-brethren, can substitute his simple pistol for a lot of nice weapons. If I read the IG rules correctly for the Techpriest Enginseer he cannot substitute anything, right?

3) In reference to the Techpriest Enginseerís Servitors, the IG Codex says he can take 5 of them. Can the Techpriest Enginseer have 3 Techno Servitors, and then 2 Gun Servitors with either 2 HB, or 2 Plasma Cannons, or 2 Multi-Meltas? He cannot take 1 Tech Servitor, 2 Plasma Cannons, and 2 Heavy Bolter servitors, right?

4) Servitors have two attacks or just one? Those Servo-Arms appear to be held in one hand, and the other hand is free or has another mechanical construct, but it does not count towards a second hand-to-hand weapon, right?

5) Are the Techpriest Enginseers and their Servitors part or not of the normal structure for army slots? I read they donít count and you can just take them but the more I read the more confused I got.

6) Can this Techpriest Enginseer and his 5 Servitors be attached to another unit, such as an IG Command Unit, or to an allied unit from another army?

7) Last, if someone be kind enough to point me in the right direction for specific articles on how to correctly use these models and give them the correct load out of weapons for different circumstances.

If this kind of post is wrong or just wrong for this forum can an admin please delete it and send me a pm to help in my ongoing edification. Otherwise, thank you very much for any help.

First, you probably want the rules forum found here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

Second, probably want to remove the stat line as Im fairly sure it breaks the IP rules for the site

Lastly on to the questions:
1: he will get 1 base attack +1 for having two close combat weapons, he also gets a special servo arm attack (resolved at I1 at S6) and if he charges he will get an extra +1 for a maxium of 3 normal attacks and 1 servo arm attack

2: that is correct

3: only two of the servitors of the total of five may have weapons other than a servo arms

4: 1 normal, 1 servo arm attack, just like the tech priest.

5: They count as a HQ choice for deployment, but do not fill any slots and do not count towards your minimum 1HQ and 2Troops

6: No, as they lack the Indipendant character rule

7: You'll want to check out the tactica thread, My understanding is that they are very unpopular so most people will probably just say dont weaste your points on them, otherwise the tactica can be found here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

Fithos
01-06-2010, 05:34
1) he gets one base attack, one attack for having a pair of combat weapons (a pistol and a power weapon) and he gets one attack from the servo am for a total of 3 attacks, 4 on the charge. It should also be noted that the servo arm is power fist attack so it is strength 8 and attacks at init 1. While all other attacks are at init 3 and str 3.

2)Correct. it kinda sucks, but Just consider that you probably should be more focused on fixing things than shooting things.

3)Only 2 may carry heavy guns, so if you take 5 of them, 3 will not have guns, but remember you can mix guns, so you could have 1 Heavy bolter and 1 plasma cannon if you want.

4)They get 1 basic attack at S3 and I3 and they get 1 power fist attack at S8 I1.

5) They will count as HQ choices if a game type specifies HQ's as something special (for example HQ's = 2KPs instead of just one) but they do not count as your mandatory HQ choice and they do not fill a slot on the organization chart. So you could have a company command squad, a Lord Commissar, and a techpriest in your army because only the command squad and commissar would fill slots.

6)No. The Techpriest is not an independent character. He and all accompanying servitors are their own unit and may not join another.

7)Can't help you there. Just play around with them and you will figure out what works. I would really only recommend using them if you are tank heavy, and then I would probably just sit them behind your biggest cluster with a couple tech servitors to fix any problems... Or I might use them as a combat squad because of the slightly better armor and the power fist thing. Then I would use 5 tech servitors and the priest... but I think there are better options for combat so really only use them as support for your tanks.

Also the power weapon is usually an axe.

ehlijen
01-06-2010, 05:40
First of all, please remove the statlines from your post as it violates the forum rules at the least and copyright laws at worst.

To the questions:
1) He has 1 attack. Fighting with two weapons adds one attack. That is it for the techpriest. The servo arm does exactly what it says in the description and while you could call that an extra attack, I find doing so causes more confusion than it is worth.
Power weapons are described in the rulebook in the close combat weapon section.

2) Techmarines are both tech priests and marines. The marine part grants them the right and training to use all those funky weapons. The techpriest has no such training and only knows how to fix them, not how to best use them. He is also considered too valuable to be posted on the front line and is tasked with support duties, not combat duties.

3) You are right.

4) They have one attack. Once again it is less confusing to not count their servo arms as attacks, but as special effects.

5) They are HQ choices, but they never count as using up a slot. Think of it as:
You can pick two. If you pick a techpriest, you can pick one more as he doesn't count to your limit.

6) No, they are not independent characters, nor do they have other rules to such effect.

7) Your best bet is to not use them. Heavy weapon squads give you the same firepower for less points and slightly more resilince and a naked company command squad is only 5 points more than a basic techpriest and far more useful. The only way to use them well is for background and if you have lot's of vehicles you'd like to fix if need be.

Don't get me wrong, I like techpriests, but it is so hard to justify them.

Hagnag
01-06-2010, 14:03
Thank you all very much for the information, I am a little confused on the attack for the Servo Arm, one response says it is resolved as a Strength 6 attack and Initiative 1, another response says it is a Power Fist attack at Strength 8 and Initiative 1.

To summarize and see if I follow correctly:

1. The Techpriest Enginseer has 3 normal attacks, 2 attacks at Strength 3 and Initiative 3 that are Power Weapon attacks since he has a Power Weapon, and 1 attack at Strength 8 and Initiative 1.


• 1 Power Weapon attack, his normal base attack with his Power Weapon, at S3, I3, that allows only an Invulnerable Save

• 1 Power Weapon attack, because he has an additional melee weapon, at S3, I3, that allows only an Invulnerable Save

• 1 Servo Arm attack that acts as an improved Power Fist attack, since it does not only doubles the base strength from 3 to 6 but in addition it adds +2 to it, sort of having a Nemesis Force weapon with the technical soul of a Power Fist. It is executed as an attack at S8 and initiative 1, which allows only an Invulnerable Save

When the Techpriest Enginseer charges, he will have 3 Power Weapon attacks at S3, I3 that allow only Invulnerable Saves, and 1 Servo Arm attack that acts as an improved Power Fist attack for the S3 of the Techpriest Enginseer making him attack at S8, I1 and allows only an Invulnerable Save.




2. For the Technical Servitors with Servo Arms, they get 2 attacks, a Power Fist Servo Arm attack at Strength 8 and initiative 1, and a normal attack at Strength 3 and Initiative 3


• 1 normal attack at S3, I3, that allows for Armor Save or an Invulnerable Save

• 1 Power Fist Servo Arm attack at Strength 8 and Initiative 1 that allows for Invulnerable Saves only


When the Servitor charges, his third attack is a normal attack at S3, I3, which allows for all Armor Saves or Invulnerable Saves.



3. It is axiomatic then that if and when a Techpriest Enginseer goes to battle with 5 Servitors. For example, 3 Technical Servitors (let’s call them Alpha, Beta, and Gamma) and 2 Gun Servitors, his ability to repair an immobilized vehicle or a destroyed weapon will be executed on a 2+?


• 6 up for being himself
• 5 up for having the Blessings of the Omnissiah
• 4 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor Alpha
• 3 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor Beta
• 2 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor Gamma


If the Techpriest Enginseer rolls a 1, then he always fails.



4. In reference to this Techpriest Enginseer and his 5 Servitors, since they are HQ choice and not an independent character they cannot attach themselves to another unit. However, a unit can attach itself to it? For example, if I had a normal Inquisitor with 0-6 Inquisitoral Henchmen, and he is listed as an Independent Character, the Inquisitor and his 0-6 Inquisitorial Henchmen can not attach themselves to the Techpriest Enginseer HQ unit since it has a retinue and counts as a unit. However, if the retinue dies, then he could as a naked Independent Character attach himself to the Techpriest Enginseer?



5. Lastly, if you were to have a single Heavy Support slot open, say for a tank, from the IG list, under normal game rules, which tank would in your opinion prove the most fun to play or be the biggest pain in the behind that would merit having this Techpriest Enginseer around to keep it going?



I understand that this Techpriest Enginseer might not be worthwhile playing or taking along, but for the fun of the game, it might be cool to play, even if I am to be slaughtered every time. I am trying to include him or the Techmarine and their Servitors and try to have fun with it but do enough homework so that they can also contribute efficiently and/or effectively.


Again, thank you very much for all your help and clarifications to my confusion.

Shamutanti
01-06-2010, 14:20
Point one:


1. The Techpriest Enginseer has 3 normal attacks, 2 attacks at Strength 3 and Initiative 3, and 1 attack at Strength 8 and Initiative 1.

Sort of correct. All his normal attacks (those that are NOT servo arm attacks) ignore armour saves because he has a power weapon. The benefit of a power weapon being that it ignores armour saves with all your 'normal' attacks. So actually he would have:

1 attack basic that ignores armour saves
1 additional attack for having two close combat weapons (pistol + p. weapon) that ignores armour saves
and
1 attack if he charges that will ignore armour saves

Servo arms are power fist attacks.

A power fist attack doubles the strength of the user.

I do not have the IG codex on hand right now but that's a standard in the rulebook.

So should the Servo Arm count exactly as a power fist, it will grant one attack, at initiative one (like all power fists) that hits at double the strength of the user, whilst ignoring armour saves.

So assuming the Servo Arm works exactly like this, a Servitor will have 1 attack normally (that gives an armour save) and 1 attack at Strength 6 (double the strength of a Servitor) that hits at initiative one, but ignores armour saves.


Point 2:

If the Techpriest Enginseer took 4 Technical Servitors then his abilities to repair would never fail?
A one always fails, no matter what.

Point 3:

5. Lastly, if you were to have a single Heavy Support slot open, say for a tank, from the IG list, under normal game rules, which tank would in your opinion prove the most fun to play or be the biggest pain in the behind that would merit having this Techpriest Enginseer around to keep it going?
Hydra Flak guns are amazingly good fun, especially 3 of them, but they tend to attract fire, thus the ability to repair weapons is useful.

Apart from that I'm a fan of the Nova Cannon on the Eradicator. It removes medium and light troops from the board in droves, and thus often attracts attention because of this (doesn't help having a short range) so again, a Tech Priest is useful.

Finally a Demolisher is disgusting for damage, so will attract fire power in a hope for a weapon destroyed. Use your tech priest on the Demolisher to keep its gun working.

MasterDecoy
01-06-2010, 15:22
I do not have the IG codex on hand right now but that's a standard in the rulebook.

So should the Servo Arm count exactly as a power fist, it will grant one attack, at initiative one (like all power fists) that hits at double the strength of the user, whilst ignoring armour saves.

So assuming the Servo Arm works exactly like this, a Servitor will have 1 attack normally (that gives an armour save) and 1 attack at Strength 6 (double the strength of a Servitor) that hits at initiative one, but ignores armour saves.


After going back to review the codex after reading it was S8, the codex does indeed say S8, funny.

ehlijen
01-06-2010, 15:25
Servo arms do not make powerfist attacks. They have a listed strenght in their rules that is independent from the strenght of the bearer. It is the same as the techmarine servo arms.

On the one always failing: there is no such general rule. If they blessing omnissiah rule does not specify such a fact, than auto success are indeed possible.

Hagnag
02-06-2010, 12:33
Since I am a dilettante in the game I am not sure which of these two positions is correct for game play. I ask this with utmost respect.

Please note:




Point 2:

A one always fails, no matter what.


and,




On the one always failing: there is no such general rule. If they blessing omnissiah rule does not specify such a fact, than auto success are indeed possible.



The issue comes when a Techpriest Enginseer takes 4 Technical Servitors instead of 3 Technical Servitors and proceeds to repair a destroyed weapon or make a vehicle mobile again. I would appreciate your help for this specific circumstance as well as any insights on similar instances in which a roll of 1 comes about.

Thank you for your help and insights.

don_mondo
02-06-2010, 12:46
There is no genereic rule that a 1 always fails. There are specific instances (armor saves) where it says this. If the rule does not say a 1 always fails for whatever, then yes, you can auto pass with modifiers.

Hagnag
04-06-2010, 02:15
If I got it right, in the end, this is what I learned

Techpriest Enginseer normal melee attacks:
• 1 PW attack, at S3, I3, allows only an Invulnerable Save
• 1 PW attack, at S3, I3, allows only an Invulnerable Save
• 1 Servo Arm attack at S8, I1, allows only an Invulnerable Save

Techpriest Enginseer charging melee attacks:
• 1 PW attack, at S3, I3, allows only an Invulnerable Save
• 1 PW attack, at S3, I3, allows only an Invulnerable Save
• 1 PW attack, at S3, I3, allows only an Invulnerable Save
• 1 Servo Arm attack at S8, I1, allows only an Invulnerable Save


Technical Servitor with Servo Arm normal melee attacks:
• 1 normal attack at S3, I3, allows Armor Save or an Invulnerable Save
• 1 Servo Arm attack at S8, I1, allows only Invulnerable Save

Technical Servitor with Servo Arm charging melee attacks:
• 1 normal attack at S3, I3, allows Armor Save or an Invulnerable Save
• 1 normal attack at S3, I3, allows Armor Save or an Invulnerable Save
• 1 Servo Arm attack at S8, I1, allows only Invulnerable Save


Ability to repair a destroyed weapon or make a vehicle mobile again, instead of firing, with 4 Technical Servitors, making it an automatic certainty
• 5 up for having the Blessings of the Omnissiah
• 4 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor 1
• 3 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor 2
• 2 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor 3
• 1 up because of the +1 given from Technical Servitor 4

The Techpriest Enginseer does not take a slot in the force organizational chart, independent characters can attach themselves to him and his unit, he needs to stay in unit coherency with his squad of Technical Servitors or lobotomy takes effect on them through Mindlock, and there are other details which go beyond what is basic.

Thank you all for helping me understand part of the Techpiest Enginseer and Technical Servitor's basic abilities and options.

ehlijen
04-06-2010, 05:17
As he is not an independent character, he cannot leave his servitor unit even if he wanted to. He must remain with them as long as either is alive.

The mindlock rule exists to discourage you from removing the techpriest as a casualty in order to keep your heavy weapons alive one wound longer.