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WolfVonhinslik
02-06-2010, 08:25
ok, first off im a little drunk right now, so if my spelling is bad, bite me...

my gaming whole group is having a really hard time beating a bretonian player that almost never loses, and i was wondering what you all would do to beat him, i play dark elfs this is my list at 1000 (thats all he can field at the moment:

-lvl 2 dark sorceress with pendant and tomb on a d peg
-master with man bain and blood armor (In BG)
-10 Xbowmen with musician
-5 dark riders with xbows
-13 black guard with hag greaf and full command, and crimson death
-War hydra

he uses something like this
-10 peasant archers
-20 halberds peasants
- 9 troops knights
-8 troop knights with the bsb and virtue that killing blow the hydra
-master on a peg
(no wizards)

i may be missing stuff, but this is a general idea of what hes running

the fact that he gets a rank bonus along i think is outrageous, and that fast that in a tourny hes a +1 army is stupid, maybe im doing something wrong b/c apparently im a -2 army, i dont get what the hell im doing wrong

dont get me wrong, but i play mainly to have fun (tho ill be the first to admit, i get pissed when i roll like ****, losing due to dice rolls, pisses me off, losing due to being out stragetised, im cool with, but losing every game is not fun, i play 40k as well, and im used to losing with my dark eldar, and i accept that, but i would like to win sometimes

what do you advise, the guy is a very good friend of mine so its really not about winning all the time, more for fun, but you can only lose w/o winning so many times and it still be fun, i play more fluffy/casual lists, but am i doing something wrong.


on that note i do know that one thing i am doing wrong, i am a bad judgment of distance, and i am inpatient, i need him to charge me and fail, but i am blood thirsty :P... what do... please help, apparently i am doing something wrong

im thinking about running 3 sorceresses on D peg at 1000 pts b/c, but i dont wanna be a jerk about it, i would just like the games to be a 50/50 thing, where i have a decent chance of winning, thus far we have played 3-4 games and i have killed maybe 5-8 models in his army, and he has almost (and one time did) wiped me off field

i could easily use the assassin in shades tactic, but again, i dont wanna be a jerk about it, i mean if hes just a better tactician then me then im good with that, (to add we are unable to beat him as a chaos undivided army in 40kas well, so it adds to the aggravation, almost make you not even manna play him, b/c your gonna lose, but hes my most common opponent, he lives right down the street)

for naggarond's sake please help me out here i like the guy, but i dont want him dominating 2 games (if your reading this Hannibal [thats probably his name, if not you know who you are] you know i love ya like a brother, but i will utterly cruhs you :P)

P.S.
again, i have been drinking, and forgive my spelling/grammar mistakes you get the point, and +1 for reading this, i know its a mess :P

ClockworkCorsair
02-06-2010, 08:44
Bait and Flee. With those wide flanks of his he is just begging for it. Also why not make that one character redundant and drop the Hydra, instead pick up two bolt throwers. While the big bolt may not be the best use of your time (due to that pesky ward save and of course all Bret players nail that sucker) but the small bolts are silver death.
Also Executioners are made for cracking open knights.

tmarichards
02-06-2010, 11:14
The Master can't take Manbane, it's a Gift of Khaine.

That level 2 doesn't really need a Dark Peg, a Dark Steed would work just as well. The Pendant isn't really necessary on her.

I'd also suggest taking a second level 2 on Dark Steed, this time with the Darkstar Cloak (and a scroll usually, but in this situatio it's not necessary). Take Lore of Metal on both of them, and either hope for Spirit of the Forge, or make sure both mages have the first spell- that way, you should be able to get rid of his BSB fairly quickly and easily.

Until you do this, hide most of your stuff in forests- if his knights go into the trees, they'll be stuck there all game and will be easy prey, and it's a favourite place for the hydra.

Or, if you don't want to load up on magic, make the Master a BSB and give him a shield, heavy armour, great weapon and the ASF Standard. Then give the BG unit standard bearer the Armour-Piercing Banner. That means that you'll be striking first (obviously), and your Master and Tower Master will each be hitting on 3's with a re-roll, wounding on 2's then a -4 armour save modifier. Also, the BG don't need a musician.

PeG
02-06-2010, 11:54
In the games I have seen DE usually dont have problem with brets.

ASF in combination with AP or GW usually solves the problem with anything else then an army of flyers

Also redirect his lances to get flank charges. If he doesnt come to you shoot/magic his archers to death and then he has to come. A hydra in the flank will kill most things in his army.

As you say if you really want to you can easily outmagic him although I would be a bit hesitant to invest cash in multiple casters at this time since most likely you dont want that many casters in 8th ed.

bluemage
02-06-2010, 11:58
One tactic is to place buildings on the board. One nice thing about them is that knights can't enter them. Place some crossbowmen in there and shoot at him all game. All he can do is send the men-at-arms in but since there isn't any static combat rez is buildings, he should lose and get kicked out. Allowing you to keep firing.

Another tactic would be to get him drunk and then play him. Should cause him to make more mistakes then he usually would.

Also you're gonna need to start using bait and flee tactics in order to get the charge on him. If you can get the charge you'll most likely win combat.

Slashattack
02-06-2010, 12:38
There's several things that you could do here. One being that you could try playing a no touch army, which would consist of dark riders, harpies and mages on steeds. Nothing else. The idea being he will never see a round of combat against you, while your shooting and magic gradually kills him off.

You could also try putting some reaper bolt throwers in as with multi-shot he's only going to be getting a 4+ save, with their ward which isn't great. Shades with great weapons coud be considered as he has huge exposed flanks on those knight units which are just waiting to be charged. Also look into having executioners with the banner of murder. Plus a death hag BSB, who has the banner of hag graef, manbane and rune of khaine. This unit will practically devour most heavy cavalry units in the game, including chaos ones.

WolfVonhinslik
02-06-2010, 16:47
The Master can't take Manbane, it's a Gift of Khaine.
sorry i meant heart seeker

thx for the advice everyone, one main problem i have is i dont have executioners nor do i have the hag

all i actually own atm is 10 BG (i peroxied the command with corsers), 12 xbowmen, 15 corsaers 5 dark riders, 5 harpies, 6 shades, 5 cold ones, hydra, and 2 bolt throwers, d peg sorceress, a master, an assassin, and 2 sorceresses on foot

my next perch is gonna be a BG command, then 2 warrior squads, just so i can field 2250 w/o corsers. after that i wanna get a cauldron of blood then 20 executioners. i would love to have 2 sourceress on a dark steed, but have no idea where to get them, i am thinking of using this (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/mage/sku-down/14249) as one

tmarichards
02-06-2010, 20:57
What did you use for your dark riders? I've made my mounted sorceresses out of the glade rider horses and the sorceress torso from the mounted sorceress torso (I managed to get a couple free), it's a great way to make all your mounted heroes without having to shell out for extra bits or expensive metal blister packs.

lopezpie
03-06-2010, 02:32
how i typically handle brettonia, since i play them all the time is with beautiful beautiful bolt throwers. i dont take any xbowmen. and black guard make great tar pits for them to fall into once that happens. then some executioners in the side for that real punch. also asf banner works fantastic.

VonUber
04-06-2010, 16:08
Hey I'm going to give your list a general break down.
-lvl 2 dark sorceress with pendant and tomb on a d peg
I like to mount my sorceress on peggys too, it helps get them into position quickly and its another save. (they need to roll a 5 or 6 to hit you ontop of it). The pendant isnt needed on your level 2, if you know what your doing they will never hit her off it. And the tome is a waste of points. Better to send her in with no equipment.
VS brets i would use the lore of metal and use the first spell to snipe out his charcters (throw 3 dice at it).
-master with man bain and blood armor (In BG)
Manbane cannot be given to a master, better just to give him a great weapon. Way better killy. And Blood armour is cool but its a good idea just to give him armour of darkness for the 1+ save.
-10 Xbowmen with musician
-5 dark riders with xbows
Not bad, but taking just 1 unit of fast cav is to easy for your oponent to deal with, id drop the xbows for another unit of dark riders. It allows you to get round his sides, avoid his charges, bait charges, block charges and you can flank him.
-13 black guard with hag greaf and full command, and crimson death
The cimson death is a waste of points, better to just give them the ASF banner, the black guard dont need it as there I6 and you can take a charge because you wont break. (Well shouldnt) and also this helps your master stay alive.
-War hydra
Can never say no to this, but 2 bolt throwers are better for you this game.

There should be a few more points to play around with here, I sugest making the black guard 15 strong with them.

Now for a basic plan.

Ehem.

Melt his characters (the bsb first, then the general). and try and make his units panic, once they flee they get no ward save.
And pray your master kills 2 of the knights when they do hit home (delay this as long as you can) and break them the first, or 2nd round. when you have to persue (a draw back) and make sure, if you do run them down that your fast cav are there to destroy them (US5) and to block other charges to the black guard untill your ready to counter charge them in the rear (this is a good idea to do with the fast cav when the guard are in the front or flank).
Spirit of the forge helps allot. But its not really a big deal. IF you get it, great if you dont, it just means you have more dice to throw at melting his chars.
The other good spell to hope for is the -1 to hit, to wound and to armour saves spell (i think thats what it does). That makes a mess of his battle plan when his knights hit.