PDA

View Full Version : Venerable Dreads Usefulness and Popularity.



Rydmend
03-06-2010, 17:51
Around these parts I don't see many people using venerable dreads. The point cost between a regular dread and venerable is substantial but the re-roll on the damage table seems like it would be a great boon. I also wonder how does that compare with the ironclads AV 13 in most gameplay situations?

Do you prefer ven dreads over regular dreads/ironclads and why?

gwarsh41
03-06-2010, 18:38
Gwaaah... I totally forgot about ven dreads reroll on the table. I have not fielded in so long. When I did no one took shots at him!

Back when SW were in 3rd edition the ven dread was my HQ choice every single time. For the amount of stuff he did it was great. Although the only army I played against was nids... I have not brought one in a while, I am guessing most people just think the points are better spent elsewhere. I have not fielded a dreadnought in a little while though, I really should.
AV 13 is nothing to joke at, it makes for a really rough customer, my soul grinders have been surviving like there is no tomorrow. Another thing to remember is that a ven dread usually has a higher stat line. If I bring one, he usually does not have a twin linked gun because he will need 2s to hit, as opposed to 3s. the WS5 helps against big monsters too.

Project2501
03-06-2010, 19:20
Regular dreads are better because for 45 points less than a venerable you get the same weapons capabilites and a garaunteed favorable outcome on the damage chart (extra armor reducing shaken to stunned).

The venerable's reroll does not garauntee a favorable outcome on the damage chart (hell, it could be worse even), and while the BS/WS is nice, almos all the weapons are twinlinked anyway, and in melée it might get one more hit in against an opposing WS.

Referring to melée, the Ironclad is 40 points cheaper, better as a straight up AV13 means hidden powerfists (even nobs/BA on the charge) are almost useless, it still has (shorter) ranged weaponry for when it's closing with/popping open the/pod scattered too far from the enemy, again with a better AV than the venerable, and more close combat attacks to make up for the WS despairity.

So, unless you want a super accurate plasma cannon platform, or have a fluffy theme in mind, it an overcosted menial advantage model

Repentant Son
03-06-2010, 19:41
What the above post said. Maybe if they had more attacks or some other boost, they would be worth taking. At the moment they are a little too expensive.

mughi3
03-06-2010, 21:02
I swear by venerables, i will not put a dread on the table unless it is venerable or ironclad. ironclads are harder to hurt in CC but the ease of killing them with a pen hit is the same. i have actually had my venerables live longer in CC even thouh they are geared for shooting and have one less armor point.

I use dreads alot and always have. in my old deathwing, in my current wolf wing and in my DIY chapter 6 dread list. venerable pay for themselves in every single game. hitting on 2+ shooting is a nice bonus. however the re-roll has saved my dreads more times than i can count. i most often go from a dread result to a stunned/shaken result. i like to think of it as an invul save for a dread. if i fail it well i was still dead before so nothing changed, however if i make it good things happen. at least for me. :D

gwarsh41
03-06-2010, 21:36
This makes me wonder about fielding Bjorn. Totally forgot about the reroll. That plus being front armor 13 and a +5 invul would make for some fun.

LonelyPath
03-06-2010, 21:38
The only time I see Ven Dreads in my area is when I field my Deathwing Vens. No one else fields them, saying thay're to expensive. Then though I field mine I do so rarely and only if I have the points to spare.

Rydmend
03-06-2010, 21:41
This makes me wonder about fielding Bjorn. Totally forgot about the reroll. That plus being front armor 13 and a +5 invul would make for some fun.

I was wondering about bjorn as well....he is damn expensive though. Another perk is that he drops plasma with -6 scatter which pretty much means auto-hit.

Bonzai
03-06-2010, 22:30
I like venerables, but for me I preffer ironclads. Cheaper, and harder to damage. Better in assault too. The re-roll is nice, but I still prefer the av 13.

DoomedToRepeatIt
03-06-2010, 22:38
Ven Dreads make for decent multimelta platforms thanks to that WS5. I've put one in a drop pod and popped Land Raiders on the first turn with it on several occassions, and the rerolling chart means that unless your opponent gets very lucky on his shooting back at it, it should survive as a thorn in his side for at least one more turn.

DEADMARSH
04-06-2010, 01:27
Ven Dreads make for decent multimelta platforms thanks to that WS5. I've put one in a drop pod and popped Land Raiders on the first turn with it on several occassions, and the rerolling chart means that unless your opponent gets very lucky on his shooting back at it, it should survive as a thorn in his side for at least one more turn.

This.

I've never used one without a drop pod and MM, but for me anyway, they absolutely shine in that role.

When you combine drop pod scatter and Melta rule, some tank on the other side of the table is gonna go boom. :)

Malus Trux
04-06-2010, 04:08
I swear by them. In my Ultramarines list I run all infantry & 1 Dreadnought in a pod so its a ven dread so that he survives a bit. So far I've prevented him from being destroyed in all but 1 of the games he's been in. He does have a frightening ability to become immobilized every game which has earned him the nickname "Stubbs." He has a stormbolter & assault cannon so his BS5 means he usually shreds a vehicle or squad before being doomed to stare in one direction for the remainder of the battle.

The Marshel
04-06-2010, 04:14
i find it difficult to justify the venerable dread in game. as far as being a better plasma cannon platform goes, my only use for plasma these days is MCs, so a template doesnt help. at the very least devs with plasma can lob out 4 shots. hell, a dev squad with just 2 plasma cannons is cheaper then the ven and (iirc) and still gets one bs 5 shot.

as for the multi melta platform, well frankly i view the mm drop dread as suicidal, so when i do it i like to keep it as cheap as possible. upgrading to venerable jut isnt worth it to me.

it is however, very very pretty, id probably use one, but count as regular dread with opponents permission.

mughi3
04-06-2010, 09:53
This makes me wonder about fielding Bjorn. Totally forgot about the reroll. That plus being front armor 13 and a +5 invul would make for some fun.

Venerabel dreads are awsome, Bjorn is HORRIBLE.

whoever wrote his rules should be flogged.

right off the bat he cannot take extra armor meaning he will spend most games standing there watching the battle. a 5+ invul save does not equal EA in the slightest. being stunned also means -1 attack and melta bombs get planted on WS instead of a 6+. he also cannot use a drop pod to get him anywhere and to top it all off he has a low initiative.

I tired him out in one game, as a dedicated dread player i can say he will never see the table again in my wolf army with the rules he has now.



Ven Dreads make for decent multimelta platforms thanks to that WS5. I've put one in a drop pod and popped Land Raiders on the first turn with it on several occassions, and the rerolling chart means that unless your opponent gets very lucky on his shooting back at it, it should survive as a thorn in his side for at least one more turn.

I have actually moved away from the pod list with my DIY marines. with 3 dreads in pods people learned quickly how to counter my tactics. most often i was forced to go first and land dreads on empty tables only to have them die when the enemy reserves come in. no i keep my ironclads in reserve and let the enemy come to me. with all the outflanking/deepstriking/podding/running armies out there it is a tactic i have found works suprisingly well.

I still use pods in my wolf list because i do have melta dreads and combi-melta terminators. so getting close quickly is kind of required.

Giganthrax
04-06-2010, 10:46
Venerable dreadnoughts are way overpriced for what they do.

Rifleman dreadnoughts (dual TL-autocannons) and good ol' ironclads are more cost-efficient, as they specialize on something and try to do well there, rather then trying to be jacks of all trades and masters of none.

MajorWesJanson
04-06-2010, 10:54
I really want to try the Outrider Spearhead with Bjorn, a Ven Dread, and an Ironclad. I can see that being a major force multiplier, even if they are walking.

AWEX2X
04-06-2010, 11:02
I had just bad luck with ven dreads they cost tooo much for their advantage. Hell when i played with one he always gets shot and my opponent always rolls a 6 on the chart and when he rerolls mostly a 6 again or a 4, which means he is pretty useless. i prefer normal dreads but often field one ven dread because my converted one looks cool

mughi3
09-06-2010, 09:33
Just a bit of an update. i got in 3 40K games last weekend.

Of all the games i used my 6 dreads in, i lost ironclads quite a few times however out of venerable re-rolls i had 4 out of 5 occasions where a pen dead result was re-rolled as something less.

Well spent 120 points in the list that saved me 800 on the table.

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 09:36
I really want to try the Outrider Spearhead with Bjorn, a Ven Dread, and an Ironclad. I can see that being a major force multiplier, even if they are walking.

Houseruling it then? Otherwise you're still stuck to one codex I though.

WildWeasel
09-06-2010, 12:44
Houseruling it then? Otherwise you're still stuck to one codex I though.

And even then, you can only have two different unit entries in the Outrider, e.g. Bjorn as the leader, and the others have to be either regular OR venerable, not one of each.

MajorWesJanson
09-06-2010, 13:14
Houseruling it then? Otherwise you're still stuck to one codex I though.


And even then, you can only have two different unit entries in the Outrider, e.g. Bjorn as the leader, and the others have to be either regular OR venerable, not one of each.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted. Would have helped to have looked at the Codex and Spearhead rules before the idea came to mind. Sounded like a good idea in my head.