PDA

View Full Version : 8th ed- 1 slann vs 2 slann



Heimagoblin
04-06-2010, 16:22
This is presuming a 2250 game meaning 562 points on characters

1 slann

pro's:

-can take cupped hands which will be amazing with the more dangerous miscast table

-can take more than 1 dicipline meaning you can buy him ethereal so he can avoide all those template miscasts becuase you can put him on his own but you can still take +1 power dice every spell.

-Can take a slann bsb

-Can take plauge of tepok

-Less points

2 slann

pro's

-Can make 2 temple guard units stubborn and immune to psychology

-Have more power dice overall

-Vulnerable to miscasts especially template ones inside temple guard blocks

-Can choose from 2 lore's

So which would you go for and whcih do you think will be more competative?

Falkman
04-06-2010, 18:56
Both can take one discipline for free, right?
So you could give them both protection against miscasts if you fear those (if all results are horrible it might not work though), or they could know an entire spell lore each, or you could have them add +1 dice to all their casts.

The versatility of two Slann is just amazing in my opinion.

inq.serge
04-06-2010, 19:53
I'd take 2 (lone) slanns

One lore of death and one of beasts (or any other lore, but the "turn into dragon or something"seems awesome!).

3 Dis each: (Same for both) Consciousness, Rumianation and mystery.

Nothing more.
Exact (or maybe even just below) your Pts limit in 3k.

The tactic is to use the lore of death to regain Powerdice, and when you've cast your spells and have tonnes of powerdice left, you use the other slann, and fix the rest. Magic superiority, simple as it is.

ooglatjama
04-06-2010, 19:53
I would give them both the free dice and be done with it, I doubt that the table is super terrible.

Why would you give him an entire lore? Don't the rumors say that you get to pick anyway. I think picking spells and just ignoring useless ones would be better than getting them all.

Heimagoblin
04-06-2010, 20:00
Anyone see the fire dragon with strait 8's for stats?

A possibility is use 1 as ethereal on his won to cast big dice spells and 1 free power dice every spell to cast little ones.

Falkman
04-06-2010, 20:29
Why would you give him an entire lore? Don't the rumors say that you get to pick anyway. I think picking spells and just ignoring useless ones would be better than getting them all.
No, you still roll. The only difference is that no two wizards may roll the same spell, and that each lore will contain an additional "basic" spell similar to the Lore of the Wild, or the 6th ed Tzeentch lore.

Heimagoblin
04-06-2010, 20:56
However, I think ethereal or free power dice per spell have more potential.

Gaargod
04-06-2010, 21:02
Its got to be a single slann for me. BSB, pick whole lore, cupped hands and rumination are all pretty much mandatory picks for max effectiveness. Also its rather nice to be taking saurus heroes to boost units.

Can't myself taking 2 TG blocks at anything less than 4k either - our core being what it is, you run the risk of creating too many units for the same job. In a fairly expensive army... that's not good.

Agnar the Howler
05-06-2010, 00:36
I'm also a single Slann guy, taking 2 just doesn't feel right to me, and even given the choice i'd rather have my Slann backed up a Carnosaur Oldblood instead (of course, points are needed to do this). Whilst I can see the tactical advantages of having 2, to me it just doesn't seem like fun, plus it directly contradicts my army's fluff (of course, this drawback isn't shared by everyone).

kaintxu
05-06-2010, 02:10
I have been thinking about this long, so here are my ideas.

First of all a con for 2 slans. at 2k you only get points for those 2 slann with 1 disci ea. So you need the +1 PD disci because if you dont 2D6 is not going to be enough dice for your 8 spells so your are wasting ponts.

Even so, what about those turns you just roll 2-5 PD? your are really screwed with only throwing 1-3 spells

No protection against mistcasts.

Random spells.

IF you have just one slan, you are going to give him, +1PD, know all lore, and maybe some other disci.

Cupper hands against mistcasts.

Knowing 7 spells, the +4 to casting, and the extra dice per cast, means your are going to cast more spells with just one slan than 2 even. Yes not all 7 spells are gonna be worth it, but Im sure you'll get some use.

I do see 2 slans at 3k points giving ea of the 2 discins (+1 PD and whole lore to one and some other disci to the other one) giving one of the cupper hands and some other 55 points for the other slan, making your 750 points quite worth it. Here we would be getting Lore of death for the extra dice and knowing the whole lore you know you are going to get wound, while maybe if you just know 4 spells, 2 get 2 curses, buffs, which would not get you enough wounds to get extra spells, also throw in 1 power stone for one of those turn with a los roll on PD amount, and there you go

The know all lore disci, has just gotten better since on 7th, you will only get 2 free spells, just one more than plaque of tepok, on 8th, your are getting 3 free spells, 2 more than the table. Which now, having 7 spells, you get less chances of rolling the ones you want.

Kerill
05-06-2010, 02:41
1 Slann, I really don't see a small army (<3000 points) ever having two slann and my army fluff also precludes it.

Temple guard aren't the be all and end all since even normal saurus can easily be stubborn now and there is no more feae autobreak.

1 Tooled slann.

Although I can see 1 slann and 1 oldblood being decent enough and within the fluff.

Heimagoblin
05-06-2010, 07:42
In what way will 1 slann do more damage than 2 slann?

2 slann know more spells between them, can pick different lore's and can both channel and can be at differnt locations allowing for maximum flexibility.

Dokushin
05-06-2010, 14:41
In what way will 1 slann do more damage than 2 slann?

2 slann know more spells between them, can pick different lore's and can both channel and can be at differnt locations allowing for maximum flexibility.

Ok, in order.

Spells: 1 Slann will know 7 spells. 2 Slann will know 8. And the 8 will be 4 randomly rolled from two different tables, so much less control over what you get.

Lores: All of the lores, from what we've seen, have had a good spread of spells. All 7 from one lore will probably be more consistently useful than random 4 from two, since you might just wind up with a bunch of damage when you need control, or whatever.

Channel: 1/6 extra power die in favor of two slann.

Different locations: Since you can put the Slann in an invincible Temple Guard bunker and march it up the center of the board, I don't think positioning is going to be a problem.


What I'm saying is, two Slann don't really bring you too much over one Slann, and they very awkwardly eat up your Lord allowance that you could have instead spent on an Oldblood or more Special options. I'm sure I'll try a two-Slann list, but I'm pretty convinced one is the way to go.

theunwantedbeing
05-06-2010, 14:52
2 with the +1 powerdice ability obviously.
Seeing as we're getting 2d6 powerdice, 2 is noticably more effective than one is.

Plus you can then spend the hero allowance on fighty stuff.
Not like you'll have any leftover powerdice for skink priests anyway, plus scar veterans are dirt cheap and nails.

Walgis
05-06-2010, 21:00
defenetly 2 slanns.
first one:
+free dicipline
lore of death (if the rumor is right and you get a chance to get a power dice)
second one:
+free dicipline
uber magic lore if the ultimate destruction posibility

and i have lef 75 pts (2500pt game) to give either one. the options is 3 power stones incase you roll realy badly. or bsb and 2 power stones.

defenetly if i take 2 slanns they will be solo ones. (althou that depends on the "horible" miscast/IF chart)

with +1free dice you only have to take one dice from power pool and you have 50:50 chance to cast a 11+ spell thats totaly amazing!!!!!!

Heimagoblin
06-06-2010, 18:58
Sure, at 2500 the choice is odvious but at 2250 were is 2 naked or 1 tooled up the choice becomes much more difficult.

kaintxu
06-06-2010, 21:51
Even at 2500 i might think of it, 3k, its a no brainer for 2 slan, but 2500 leaves you with 75 spare points, with 2 slann your are going to want some control loose protection, so tahts another discipline for 1 of then or cupper hand, thats 45-50 points, thus only 30 1 PS.

and what do you do when you roll 2-5 dice? just have unused points or your army.

With one slann, 7 spell, and increase dificulties, you will need to roll over average to use all of the, so. lets imagin, 1+1, 1+1, 2+1, 2+1, 3+1, 3+1 thats rolling 12 dices and you only get to use 6 spells, and for the last one you will probably need more than 3+1, so i Think 1 slann its enough.

At 3k you have points to tool them up so some stones, protection and such will work great.

Magic Karl
06-06-2010, 22:00
even in 8th, 2 slann will be possible in (a large army), but here's the thing... 2 naked slann =550 points. You also said one pro is temple guard, so im assuming you're having them too? You're looking at a minimum of 870 points. In the 2,250 game you mentioned that's well over 1/3 of your points before you've even equipped anything, or bulked up those TG to more than bare minimum. Magic is also getting nerfed, so tactically this doesn't seem viable to me. I'd take one slann at 3k for fluff reasons, maybe 2 in 4k or higher.

Scactha
07-06-2010, 10:05
I'd take 2 (lone) slanns

One lore of death and one of beasts (or any other lore, but the "turn into dragon or something"seems awesome!).

3 Dis each: (Same for both) Consciousness, Rumianation and mystery.

Nothing more.
Exact (or maybe even just below) your Pts limit in 3k.

The tactic is to use the lore of death to regain Powerdice, and when you've cast your spells and have tonnes of powerdice left, you use the other slann, and fix the rest. Magic superiority, simple as it is.You will get an average of 7 PD. The opponent will have 4 DD.

Then you have 2 chances to channel 2 more at sixes. But so has the opponent.

Then you have a chance to death channel more on sixes for wounds.

(Lets say thereīs a 2d6 St4 magic missile cast at 8+. You use one out of your pool. You are lucky and roll 3. 3 + 4 + bonus die equals success. Opponent does not dispel. 7 hits on DE spear elves = 4.6 dead = 0.7 dice.

Say you are lucky and meet Greenskins. You spend 3 dice *Guessing here* to roll over 2 regiments or 25 model Orcs with the Sun. Thatīs 5 bonus dice. Now you have reaped maximum benefit. How often will that happen?)

This is a lousy investment for a fourth of your army's value and does not approach anything looking like magic superiority of 7th. Those days are gone.

cptcosmic
07-06-2010, 10:58
-can take cupped hands which will be amazing with the more dangerous miscast table
there are no miscasts anymore in 8. Loss of control is something completely different.

inq.serge
07-06-2010, 11:01
I've heard that the FaQ says that cupped hands will instead affect/transfer "Loss of Control", so, it's still "the same", but "Different".

decker_cky
07-06-2010, 22:57
Depends on how many useful spells lores have. If there's some good lores which you want to use 3-4 spells per turn on, better to take a single slann since an average 7 dice won't cast much more than that. If realistically 1 lore doesn't give enough solid spells, then the second one is worth considering.

There's a lot of redundancy between slanns (+1 power dice doesn't differ between them, nor does +4 to cast/dispel, nor does leadership and BSB possibility, etc..) so really, is it worth 275+ pts to have insurance in the magic phase to protect against dead slann and to get extra spell selection.

Heimagoblin
08-06-2010, 06:59
Don't forget the benifits to templeguard and increased spell range.