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Grentain
04-06-2010, 19:46
I've been playing around with this concept some, and I realized that most of the people that I play with won't be close to fielding 2000pts any time soon, so I decided instead to focus on my 1000pt list, which I have been using. So, here is what I have so far:

Characters:
Josef Bugman (155 pts)
Runesmith w/ Rune of Brotherhood, Master Rune of Flight, Rune of Stone, Shield (137 pts)

Core:
12 Quarrelers w/ Shield, Great Weapon, Scout, Veteran (190 pts)
12 Longbeards w/ Shield, Great Weapon, Scout, Throwing Axes, Master Rune of Slowness (262 pts)

Special:
7 Miners w/ Prospector, Steam Drill (112 pts)

Rare:
Gyrocopter (140 pts)

The idea of the list is to get around the Dwarf's weakness of a slow movement speed by deploying mostly within the enemy zone, already. The Runesmith deploys with the Longbeard unit, and the Bugman deploys by himself alongside the Quarreler unit. The Gyrocopter, being the only dwarf model with any kind of movement potential, is there in order to beat on the enemy ranks as they approach the dwarves.

I'm considering removing the Gyrocopter, though, and replacing it with a Cannon, effectively freeing up 35 or so points, as I feel as though I'm probably just not fielding enough models.

What're your thoughts?

lord opium
04-06-2010, 20:43
I like the idea.

Do you have standards or musicians in any units?

I think you should keep the copter as a cannon would feel out of place and an easy target.

How have your games with the list been?

Grentain
04-06-2010, 21:20
The Longbeard unit has a standard-bearer, but none of the others do. I just don't have the points for the standards - and I can't spare to cut models to do it, since I'm only running a few. So far, I've mostly played this army against Dark Elves, against whom I've won. My last game with it was against Skaven, and a rush of bad luck dropped my entire unit of Miners and my General, like, second turn, and I ended up losing.

My tactic right now is to place my quarrelers on a hill inside the enemy deployment zone, with the Longbeards in front of them. The quarrelers have a nice 30" range, and so can shoot most anything on the field, turn 1, and my Rangers are hefting throwing weapons (even the Runesmith!), which are the only dwarf ranged weapons that can move AND throw. Rune of Slowness helps give me an extra ranged attack if the other side feels like charging my longbeards, and helps to still give me the return-charge.

With melee combat, I think I'm going to end up using Great Weapons on the charge, and Shields from then on in. Being hit twice between attacks really hurts, and the +2 to the armor save helps immensely.

bluemage
04-06-2010, 21:29
You could drop the runesmith from the list in order to bulk out your army. I'm not a dwarf player so I'm not sure how nessesary he is in your list, but it would give you another 137 more points.

some_scrub
04-06-2010, 23:55
It's hard to imagine how a list this strange would play out, but it's definitely exciting.

I don't really think there's any way to get around the problem with having too few models, though unless you're willing to cut the Runesmith or Gyrocopter.

I'm not sure how much the smith actually adds to your list. Do you find yourself needing that extra dispel die often? He's certainly less killy and 5 points more than an identically kitted thane. You could always cut the runesmith for an extra unit of miners. That might make your army look a bit more intimidating.

What does the gyrocopter usually end up doing? More typical dwarf lists use them to march block - but that's obviously not an issue here. If it's not doing much once it zips over to the other side of the board, you could always cut it for another unit of miners.

papabearshane
05-06-2010, 03:47
Just a Little Rule question........You said "With melee combat, I think I'm going to end up using Great Weapons on the charge, and Shields from then on in." you cant switch Weapons in an on going combat. Other then this Id drop the Runsmith and Gyro for 2 more units. Great idea on the army I like it.

Grentain
05-06-2010, 05:02
The Gyrocopter does well taking care of an enemy Melee unit. Since it can get it close and shoot very quickly, and still flee as a response, it does well occuping one melee unit away from the bulk of my army. If they choose to charge it, I can use a flee response - If they don't bother it, then it's shooting them every turn with a flame template. Even so, I think I'll leave it until a higher point cost.

I do think that I can drop the Runesmith, though, until a higher point cost. There's only one army that I play against, currently, that I have to worry about Magic with, and even then I have the same amount of base dispel dice as they do power dice.

I like the idea of having two units of miners - Especially if I'm going to be dropping them behind enemy lines, two units is much better than one.

Okay, so how about this for a revised list:

Characters:
Josef Bugman (155 pts)

Core:
13 Quarreler Scouts w/ Great Weapons, Shields, Veteran (205 pts)
14 Bugman's Rangers w/ Great Weapon, Throwing Axes, Shields, Veteran, Master Rune of Slowness (294 pts)

Special:
13 Miners w/ Prospector, Steam Drill (178 pts)
12 Miners w/ Prospector, Steam Drill (167 pts)

Total: 999 pts.

My thoughts about this list:
The Runesmith just isn't doing enough for me at this low point cost, and costs too much, so he's gone. I think the same of the gyrocopter. And, comparably, dropping the two lets me add another quarreler, 2 longbeards, and 11 miners. I don't know whether I want to use the 30/60 pts to upgrade my miners any more to give them blasting charges, or where I'd get those points from. Your thoughts?

some_scrub
05-06-2010, 05:57
In my experience blasting charges aren't really worth their points. Usually you end up killing a few guys and it doesn't make a difference. It's better just to have the extra miners, I think.

immortal git
05-06-2010, 17:16
gotta have a unit of warriors for every unit of longbeards =) i think

mo-man
05-06-2010, 23:34
that's true unless you have a dwarf lord and as this is such a small points army you can't have a lord

Grentain
06-06-2010, 02:56
Normally, Immortal, you would be correct. And mo-man, no, it doesn't have anything to do with having a Dwarf Lord. Normally, you are not allowed to have more units of longbeards than warriors, but taking Josef Bugman as a hero choice means that I am required to field a unit of Longbeard Rangers, which is "In addition to your normal allowances of Longbeards and Rangers, but do count towards your core unit total."

mo-man
06-06-2010, 10:51
my point is in 2k and above u can take a dwarf lord which allowes you to take an extra unit of longbeards

Grentain
06-06-2010, 20:53
Ah, right. I'd forgotten about that. However, even under 2000pts, you can still field one more (as a matter of fact, you're required to) unit of Longbeards than Warriors, as long as you take Josef Bugman as a character choice.

Paraelix
08-06-2010, 00:03
"In addition to your normal allowances of Longbeards and Rangers, but do count towards your core unit total."

Which means you only have 1 of your minimum 2 core troops.

Grentain
08-06-2010, 05:56
Which means you only have 1 of your minimum 2 core troops.


...taking Josef Bugman as a hero choice means that I am required to field a unit of Longbeard Rangers, which is "In addition to your normal allowances of Longbeards and Rangers, but do count towards your core unit total."

They do count towards core unit total.

Paraelix
09-06-2010, 05:54
Oh my bad... Seem a superfluous entry to say if they do...

metro_gnome
09-06-2010, 16:09
well I like it...

I'd strip down your quarreler unit to get your miners up to 15 each...
the quarrler unit doesn't need numbers or veteran...
and they have to pay for weapons they are unlikely to use (Great weapons)...
just keep em small and shooty...

so:
Bugman
14 Longbeard Rangers: Veteran, Standard, Rune of Slowness, Great weapons, Shields, Throwing axes
10 Quarreler Rangers: Great Weapons, Shields
15 Miners: Prospector w/steam Drill
15 Miners: Prospector w/steam Drill

if you needed numbers in the quarrelers you could also consider switching slowness for stoicism (also a great rune)...
and dropping the throwing axes for an extra 2 crossbowmen... and use the final 10 point to fill in the LBs command...

thats a lot of sneaky dwarves at 1K...

theorox
09-06-2010, 16:18
Hmm...Drop the unit of 13 miners and beef up the blocks of fighty rangers. You win by CR, not by kills.

Theo ;)

grumbaki
09-06-2010, 16:50
I really like the idea. Having no deployment? That can really mess with an opponent's mind. Just one thing that I would do though...

I'd drop one unit of 15 miners and get myself a warmachine with the rune of immolation. It gives your opponent and easy target to go for and an unpleasant surprise when he catches it.

So dropping one of unit of miners (200 pts) and adding a bolt thrower with an engineer and the rune of immolation (85 pts) leaves you 115. With that I'd add 8 Longbeard Rangers (112 points), that way you get your full rank bonus and can lose 3 dwarfs before you get any ill effects.

This gives you 3 units that don't need to be deployed, and 1 cheap warmachine that can take down monsters and will probably pay for itself when it destroys a unit of fast cavalry/skirmishers/flyers that hunts it down. It is also quite sneaky, and can be explained in the fluff as a warmachine which is quickly put together before the fight (it is basically a giant bolt thrower).

Grentain
09-06-2010, 17:19
I actually don't want to run fewer than two miner units. They're reasonably effective point-cost ((11 pts for heavy armor and great weapons makes them only one point more than Warriors with the same, plus Underground Advance)), and since I'm going to have some difficulty finding terrtain to deploy behind, it'll be a boon to be able to field two units next to each other.

I like the bulk of my quarreler unit - the extra shots really do help, I've found. Considering that they are also 30" range with strength 4. I think the veteran is worth it, too. I'm not playing a gunline, here - I intend for those units to make it into melee combat. I've been thinking about replacing them with warriors, for the extra points and heavy armor vs light (Plus throwing axes are awesome). I might add in a Bolt Thrower or two, as my "Snipe-y" units. Lemmie play around with the point costs a bit more and I'll get back to y'all.

metro_gnome
09-06-2010, 17:42
well I think we are saying the same thing essentially: you need more CR...
I think it will be difficult to hide a zoggin' huge longbeard unit out of LoS...
So I suggested more CR (+1 rank per unit) in the units coming from off table...

If you think you need the crossbowmen then I'd throw them in...
the rune of stocisim will give you a good chance at outnumber (another +1CR)...
and no... throwing axes are not very useful...
Consider:

Bugman
14 Longbeard Rangers: Veteran, Standard, Rune of Stoicism, Great Weapons, Shields
12 Quarreler Rangers: Veteran, Great Weapons, Shields
15 Miners: Prospector w/ Steam Drill
15 Miners: Prospector w/ Steam Drill