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Rydmend
09-06-2010, 00:54
Does anyone use him? How well has he performed for you? He is pretty slow so I can't see him doing much more than dropping plasma at -6 inches scatter and re-rolling first turn....but I would imagine those two things alone have the ability to make up his points. It also appears that with av 13 and re-rolls he is also pretty long lasting.

TheHaunted
09-06-2010, 03:53
He is a powerful piece but he is very expensive and quite the liability if you play kill points and he dies.

Thylacine
09-06-2010, 03:55
Rubbish in HtH, not that great at surviving and with 'Steal the Initiative' his re-roll for first turn is neutered.

Well overpriced for what he can do in the game and a hindrance since he takes up the Dreadnought HQ slot.

Another character with a well thought out set of rules, brought to you by your friends at Games Workshop!

EmperorEternalXIX
09-06-2010, 04:34
Are you accounting the fact that he's nearly immortal?

DigitalDogParty
09-06-2010, 08:33
My friend who plays Space Wolves has used him about twice now. Really, he's a Dreadnought that's mostly likely to go last in close combat with a 5+ invulnerable save. If you think that's worth his points, then go right ahead. Also, don't forget that if he dies, he becomes an objective(Additional if there are more).

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 09:04
I played a fella a couple of weeks ago who used him and he won me the game with his objective ability.
yeah he went first but it was an objective game i tend to care less on going second in objective based games.
You want a armoured 13 dread with a 5+ save? play blood angels and use libby dreads with shield of sing.... oh and flight...oh and cheaper... heaps cheaper
just my $4.50

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 09:15
Bjorn is tough. AV 13, venerable reroll, 5+ invul and high WS all make a very hard to kill beast. With BS6 big guns and 4 attacks he even hits harder than any other Imperial dreadnaught. And then he has his wierd reroll and the Saga of majesty.

The real problem is that he's so much stuff that all needs to cost in one model that total cost goes through the roof. Still, with a name that cool, he must be good :p

mughi3
09-06-2010, 09:22
As a dreadnought player and lover. whoever wrote his rules should be flogged.

It is a HORRIBLE unit to take,. i used him once and only once and will never use him again.

He cannot take extra armor that is the single biggest drawnback. any single shaken result means bombs plant on WS (4+ in most cases) he also cannot move or shoot with this result. he also looses a CC attack with that as well. If ythat were not enough to hamper his CC abilities being I3 is a downer.

Add in a side AV of 12 and a lack luster 5+ invul save and no option to pod him, your actually better off running a straight venerable dread for less points.

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 09:25
You need to reread the Walker rules then. Only stunned results do that, shaken results don't affect a walker in combat in the slightest.

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 09:26
yeah that inititive 3 is a lil downer if he goes up against other dreadnoughts.

mughi3
09-06-2010, 09:29
You need to reread the Walker rules then. Only stunned results do that, shaken results don't affect a walker in combat in the slightest.

What i was refering to was a result of 2 on the chart which is in fact stunned. a moot point as the results are the same. both if you shoot it and bonk it in CC. in fact a single shot that stuns Bjorn means you can ignore him till next turn since he cannot do anything.

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 09:34
What i was refering to was a result of 2 on the chart which is in fact stunned. a moot point as the results are the same. both if you shoot it and bonk it in CC. in fact a single shot that stuns Bjorn means you can ignore him till next turn since he cannot do anything.

Assuming the shot gets past his armour and save and ends up rolling that one result, yes, just like with any other vehicle without extra armour.

If you really need that extra turn for him to do stuff, you can always force the opponent to reroll that damage result.

mughi3
09-06-2010, 09:39
Assuming the shot gets past his armour and save and ends up rolling that one result, yes, just like with any other vehicle without extra armour.

If you really need that extra turn for him to do stuff, you can always force the opponent to reroll that damage result.

As a person who plays dreads you would be amazed at the numer of times i get a pen 2 or glance 4 damage result. most players will risk the re-roll on a glance but not on a pen. AV 12 from the side is harder to pop than a rhino granted, but having weaker side armor for his points is a negative mark in my book. also i really am not impressed with his save. i used to play DW religiously and a 5+ save is pretty crap even if it is better than nothing.

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 09:46
I like dreadies as well. The only reason I'm not running Bjorn is because to play a real dready army you need Codex Space Marines.

The 5+ save is meant for combat (where it's the only save any walker gets). Against shooting you should always use cover as you'd normally, popping smoke if you need to. And I want your dice. My opponents vehicle damage dice always come up 5 or 6 :(

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 09:51
I like dreadies as well. The only reason I'm not running Bjorn is because to play a real dready army you need Codex Space Marines.
(

wo wo wo back up there poindexter I run a dreadzilla army with 7 and i use blood angels because they are like totally the most rad...
like you know whatever :)

IAMNOTHERE
09-06-2010, 10:00
Bjorn is a monster with 2 big drawbacks - no pod and no extra armour.

Shooting - awsome.
Close Combat - awsome - seriously 4 attacks?

Other good points - kraks don't hurt him in CC which against MEQ leaves a 3A powewrfist that needs 5s to glance.

Going first is golden, siezing the initiative is a risk that your opponent has to plan for.

SoM - for when you really need to pass those tests.

Objective - 2 edged sword on turn 5, does your opponent really want to give you another objective when it's a draw?

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 10:01
Tsk tsk tsk. Blood angels. They'd like to have proper dreadnaughts :p

No Venerables, no Ironclads, no control over most of them and no Masters of the Forge to fix them without taking up slots for more :p

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 10:05
Tsk tsk tsk. Blood angels. They'd like to have proper dreadnaughts :p

No Venerables, no Ironclads, no control over most of them and no Masters of the Forge to fix them without taking up slots for more :p

how dare you sully my good army with such contemptuous bollix
Venerables... please dont make me laugh.
two words... flying freaking dreadnoughts (dont count the freaking):p

DigitalDogParty
09-06-2010, 10:05
Tsk tsk tsk. Blood angels. They'd like to have proper dreadnaughts :p

No Venerables, no Ironclads, no control over most of them and no Masters of the Forge to fix them without taking up slots for more :p


The stats of a Furioso are pretty much like an Ironclad. Plus, it can get some pretty devastating close range weapons/attacks. They also have normal dreadnoughts which can take advantage of the Red Thirst if you wanted it to. Also, if you really wanted to, they are able to have...eleven dreadnoughts? I forgot. Death Company are beast(Though Rage sucks), and Blood Talons are crazy. And actually, they have control over most of them. Furioso, Furioso Lib., Dreadnought...then Death. Three over one.

lord opium
09-06-2010, 10:09
Tsk tsk tsk. Blood angels. They'd like to have proper dreadnaughts :p

No Venerables, no Ironclads, no control over most of them and no Masters of the Forge to fix them without taking up slots for more :p

Or they have the best dreads in the game, ws6 front av 13 that can have lightning claws or death co dreads with ignore stunned and shaken and furious charge to mention a few.

Also they have librarian dreads, which can fly!


(Though Rage sucks)

Sure the death co dreads have rage but if they're in a storm raven it wont affect them ;)

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 10:10
yeah what he said...
wtf there is no smily face poking its tongue out

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 10:12
Ironclads beat furiosos:
+1 to damage rolls
Frag and photon grenades
Hunter killers
Not blockable by psychic hoods or all that wolfy nonsense.
Cheaper

Furiosos are decent, but the Ironclad definitely has the edge.

Venerables are indeed fairly expensive, but they'll suprise and annoy the enemy to no end every now and then.

lord opium
09-06-2010, 10:16
Ironclads beat furiosos:
+1 to damage rolls
Frag and photon grenades
Hunter killers
Not blockable by psychic hoods or all that wolfy nonsense.
Cheaper

Furiosos are decent, but the Ironclad definitely has the edge.

Venerables are indeed fairly expensive, but they'll suprise and annoy the enemy to no end every now and then.

I agree that Ironclads are good, but imo they have a different role. They're more for taking out vehicles where as furiosos especially if equiped with tallons are more for dealing with infantry so they are not really comparable.

And yes they are cheaper than a librarian dread but not than a furioso I don't think?

Btw, @ topic starter, don't take bjorn he's just too expensive. Maybe just keep him for friendly games where winning is a side priority.

the neckbone
09-06-2010, 10:19
furiosos hit on a 3plus
sounds cooler
starts with an F which is alphabetically better than I
blood talons will rape squads infinitly better
cheaper
only downside is that its communist red lol

IAMNOTHERE
09-06-2010, 10:44
Ok now Furioso against Bjorn? Whos gonna win?

lord opium
09-06-2010, 11:45
Well the Furioso will strike first, hit on 4s so 2 hit and need 3s to glace 4s to penetrate so bjorn could be down 1st. But with bjorns 5+ inv and venerable I'm not sure. However bjorn is over 200pts so you could probably have 2 furioso vs him lol or a libby dread.

EmperorEternalXIX
09-06-2010, 18:16
I feel like maybe 225 would have been more appropriate, really.

Rydmend
09-06-2010, 20:37
I feel like maybe 225 would have been more appropriate, really.

I agree...maybe his current point cost would be worth it if that Invuln save was a 4+ and he came with extra armor?

EmperorEternalXIX
09-06-2010, 20:41
It is really inexcusable that he doesn't at that point cost. Adding up his abilities and armament doesn't even come close to his cost.

Venerable Dreadnought (165) + Plasma Cannon (I guess 15ish cause of his BS, maybe more) + Saga of Majesty (15 on anyone else) + a 5+ Invul (people pay 30 points for a 3+ so let's say that)... comes out around 225. Add on 25 tops for his objective and re-roll abilities. Roughly 250ish. So close but not quite, I guess.

Badger[Fr]
09-06-2010, 20:46
You'd expect the oldest Space Marine alive to have slightly better stats. I thought he would be some sort of awesome killing machine, but sadly, Bjorn did not live up to my expectations.

He's resilient, yet lacks Extra Armour, and his offensive abilities are subpar.

Insane Psychopath
09-06-2010, 20:57
I use Bjorn a fair bit in my Space Wolves army. I found that he is a great unit/Dreadnought & pretty much slaughter anything he went against, the re-roll damnge & 5+ Inv save help a lot more so when the dice gods are with you.

However in the end I felt his point cost was a bit much & have now drop him for a fourth Grey Hunter Unit to baby sit object & a unit of Speeder to try contest my oppent. Which has help a lot more in my game play.

I felt my new list has been a bit better mission wise as I was struggle a bit to get through to get object.

I would recommend him of course to try out, but I'd watch out as said the pts cost is a bit of a sink & what role is he going to play in your overall army??
I might try useing him again in bigger point games, but in 1500pts to 1750pts I think I will set him aside for the time being.



IAMNOTHERE
Ok now Furioso against Bjorn? Whos gonna win?

From my experince in games, Bjorn hand's down in ever game I fought Blood Angels. Furioso never really did any damnge or if it was, it was more can not shot & that before (if) re-roll's.

Ironicly the same vs Daemon Prince, I alway tend to slaughter them with out a scratch.
End of the day it all about the dice & luck.

While vs say a combat squad of Space Marines I have mange to roll nothing but 1's to wound :eek:

Edit

yeah what he said...
wtf there is no smily face poking its tongue out

You mean this one :p

IP

ehlijen
09-06-2010, 21:17
It is really inexcusable that he doesn't at that point cost. Adding up his abilities and armament doesn't even come close to his cost.

Venerable Dreadnought (165) + Plasma Cannon (I guess 15ish cause of his BS, maybe more) + Saga of Majesty (15 on anyone else) + a 5+ Invul (people pay 30 points for a 3+ so let's say that)... comes out around 225. Add on 25 tops for his objective and re-roll abilities. Roughly 250ish. So close but not quite, I guess.

You forgot to add points for his superior statline (More WS and A) and the free wolf tail talisman. Not all that is countered by his drop in I. Edit: and his increased front armour.

And the Ironclad is cheaper than the furioso if you count the free extra armour.

mughi3
10-06-2010, 09:18
Tsk tsk tsk. Blood angels. They'd like to have proper dreadnaughts :p

No Venerables, no Ironclads, no control over most of them and no Masters of the Forge to fix them without taking up slots for more :p
Thats fits the nature of the chapter, none of thier dreads live long enough to become venerable as they are all charging headlong into the biggest swirling melee they can find.

Not saying that it isn't fun however. i faced off against a pure deathcompany list at 2K last weekend with 5 DC dreads 25 jumping DC marines and a character and it was a blast.

I was getting worked over, but fortunately it was a KPs game and my scouts just ran around in thier storm popping drop pods to tie things up for me.

IAMNOTHERE
10-06-2010, 10:18
My big problem with SW ven dreads is the number of attacks they get. Bjorn gets double this which means in a protacted assault he's likely to win quicker - like against big ork mobs.

My Ven dread without pod comes to 220pts, for that he gets everything from psy saves to hitting nid MCs on a 3+ - which is golden.

Simo429
10-06-2010, 12:28
Does great in higher point armies but can be very cheesy

I have on occasions when needing an extra objective showed his rear armour to the enemy

arch_inquisitor
10-06-2010, 12:48
I know its sick but feed him to the enemy, he's gonna take something or somethings down and when he goes your entire freaking army becomes Fearless, just keep your mind on the extra objective.

I think making the whole army Fearless if he gets a destroyed result is where the extra points come in.