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T10
23-02-2006, 10:04
A large combat involves multiple units from sides A and B. Unit A1is only in contact with unit B1.

When unit B1 is destroyed, what happens to unit A1?

1 - The unit is now free of the combat and moves as normal on it's next turn.
2 - The unit is moved into contact with the closest enemy unit.
3 - Something else?

-T10

Avian
23-02-2006, 10:24
1)

There is really no provision for moving the units around (barring overrun / pursuit), so A1 would be out of the combat, though it would still contribute to and be affected by CR that turn.

Major Defense
23-02-2006, 13:50
If it were that unit's first round of combat then they would be allowed an overrun/pursuit move. Otherwise they would be out of the combat after that round.

Crazy Harborc
23-02-2006, 21:21
A1 should then be able to charge whatever/wherever IF it's in sight/charging distance on A1's next turn.

Had an opponent suck me in with a "hey, your unit should just move over and continue in the melee". Naturally, that means no charge perks.

renard_sawg
23-02-2006, 21:51
The unit would be free of combat, but will still affect the CC turn when they destroyed unit B1.

Next turn would be able to move, charge, etc, and wont affect the CC anymore

mageith
24-02-2006, 14:07
Mostly like 2) Here's what's supposed to happen. It takes player cooperation though.


Page 77 top: "If this results in an enemy who is attacking the side of the formation becoming separated in combat, then compensate for this by moving one or both units so they they remain in contact where possible."

Mage Ith

Ganymede
24-02-2006, 15:43
This situation has always boggled me as well, and I agree that it takes player cooperation in order to resolve it.

The rules don't even address the issue. They say that if units a and b become seperated because of casualties, you should slide them together, but it says nothing about what to do with unit a if unit b is killed to the man.

Festus
24-02-2006, 16:04
Hi

The unit will be free of the combat, as its opponent is no longer there.


Page 77 top: "If this results in an enemy who is attacking the side of the formation becoming separated in combat, then compensate for this by moving one or both units so they they remain in contact where possible."
This will not apply, as the rule is about a unit becoming smaller due to casualties. In this case, the opponents still stay in combat.

But here one side has eliminated all of its single enemy and is thus free to do whatever it wants (within the rules). Just because there is another enemy unit next to the destroyed one doesn't mean that I have to fight this unit.


XXXXXZZZZ
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa

If a makes Z run or destroys it completely, will they have to fight X?

Probably not...

Greetings
Festus

mageith
24-02-2006, 22:06
XXXXXZZZZ
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa
XXXXXZZZZZaaaa

If a makes Z run or destroys it completely, will they have to fight X?

??? Are you saying they are from three armies???

The middle unit is fighting the other two units aren't they? If the middle unit runs, then the battle is over.

Units that are in combat remain in combat if at all possible.

ZomboCom
24-02-2006, 22:23
AAAAA
ZB
B
B
B
BY


A and B are two units on side 1
Z and Y are two characters on side 2

if in a round of combat, Z is killed, A is no longer in combat, but B and Y still are.

mageith
24-02-2006, 22:30
AAAAA
ZB
B
B
B
BY


A and B are two units on side 1
Z and Y are two characters on side 2

if in a round of combat, Z is killed, A is no longer in combat, but B and Y still are.
Not where I come from. Your situation is pretty bizarre, but unless there were other mitigating circumstances, the units would remain in combat. This is all one combat.

gukal
25-02-2006, 00:32
At this point Mageith, I believe your area is in the minority on how this is handled. Although unofficial, the White Dwarf and Dire Wolf FAQ have influenced the general convention regarding such circumstances (and in my opinion made the strange multiple combats more intuitive). This thankfully limits the amount of "fudge factor" required in most games. See below for the related texts from Dire Wolf.

Q. I have two units attacking one enemy unit, one from the front and
the other on the flank. Due to casualties being removed, the enemy
unit now only has models in contact with the 'front' unit. Has this
legally brought my flanking unit out of combat and thus allow it to
make an overrun move?

A. No, there are still models remaining in the unit it is engaged in
combat with. In this case, the easiest thing to do is ‘fudge it’
slightly - just slide the flanking unit across a little so that it
is in contact with at least one enemy model.
S. Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 112

*****

Q. I have two units attacking two enemy units all embroiled in a single
combat. During the combat one of my units wiped out the only enemy
unit which it was in base to base contact with. Does my unit still
count as being in combat, or is it free to act independently in
subsequent turns?

A. All units involved in a combat are subject to combat resolution and
resulting Break tests. However, if a unit is no longer in contact with
the enemy due to the elimination of the only enemy unit it was in
contact with, it does not count as being in combat in subsequent turns
and thus can charge, shoot, be shot at, and so on.
S. US White Dwarf #283 page 24 / UK White Dwarf #283 page 76

mageith
25-02-2006, 01:40
Looks good to me. Thanks for the citations.

Mage Ith

ZomboCom
25-02-2006, 01:42
Not where I come from. Your situation is pretty bizarre, but unless there were other mitigating circumstances, the units would remain in combat. This is all one combat.

That's just a nonsense. The unit is now unengaged, and can move and charge as normal. There is no way to even fudge it to get models into base to base with the enemy.

If the unit you were fighting is wiped out, and there are no other enemy units in base with your unit, you are now free to move as normal in the movement phase, though the wounds done do count for the combat resolution for that phase.

To suggest that the unit has to sit there, despite not being able to attack anyone, is not only incorrect rules wise, it's also seriously counter-intuitive.

You say it's a bizarre situation, but it's an exact situation I was in the other day. Units A and B were empire cavalry that charged a unit of zombies in the front and flank. They killed all but one in the first round of combat (after crumbling). Z is the surviving zombie. In the next turn I charged unit B in the rear with a character, Y. The knights killed the zombie but not the character, and so at the end of the round, unit A was no longer involved in the combat.

It's an odd situation, but it happened exactly like that.

Festus
25-02-2006, 08:08
Hi

In my example, the one army is called the *Capital Warriors*, the other the *minusculusses* ;)

And I agree with the rest:
If there are no more enemies in the unit your unit was engaged with, you will not be forced to attack a unit you are not in combat with.
If OTOH you simply get out of combat because your enemy's unit becomes too small to stretch all the way to your position, you will have to move up.

Greetings
Festus