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J-rock
09-06-2010, 23:41
So we know that Space Marines are a specialised rapid-assault force who have all the equipment they need to deploy from orbit to the surface quickly. I'm thinking Thunderhawk Gunships, Thunderhawk Transporters, Drop Pods, teleporation, etc.

We also know that the Imperial Navy have all the necessary equipment needed to implement a full-scale Imperial Guard led planetary invasion. I'm thinking huge drop ships capable of transporting entire armies - infantry, armour, super-heavy armour, leviathans, titans etc. These are beyond the scale of Epic even and certainly 40k.

But what about the deployment of a much smaller force? What about a force the size of a typical 40k army? They don't have access to Space Marine equipment and most of the background regarding transporting Imperial Guard armies to the surface seem like overkill. The only specific example I can think of right now is two to three Tau Mantas.

Is this dealt with at all in the Rogue Trader RPG book? There certainly wasn't anything like it in Dark Heresy.

So, here is my question again. What's the quickly and most efficient that you know of for deploying a 40k sized force from orbit onto the surface? Preferably something from established background, though conjecture is welcome.

Son of Sanguinius
09-06-2010, 23:46
What kind of army are you talking about? What race?

J-rock
10-06-2010, 00:08
Primarily human, though not necessarily. I thought I'd provided enough information for your first question in my original post. Perhaps some kind of expeditionary force, a snatch team, rapidly-deployed reinforcements, archaeologists armed with automatic weapons. Use your imagination.

Lord Asgul
10-06-2010, 00:32
I would use a large asteroid and launch it hard at the surface

They may not survive but they would get on the surface fast, and the enemy may die in the process too :D

Croakamancer
10-06-2010, 00:40
Primarily human, though not necessarily. I thought I'd provided enough information for your first question in my original post. Perhaps some kind of expeditionary force, a snatch team, rapidly-deployed reinforcements, archaeologists armed with automatic weapons. Use your imagination.

Different armies, different tech levels, different techniques

Orks will use fast rocks. Tau ships are designed to break into orbit easily IIRC, as they're not Warp capable. IG can use traditional deployment methods, BL novels tend to have IG deploy via shuttle, that works on any scale.

Argastes
10-06-2010, 02:41
Some sort of transatmospheric shuttle/dropship that's significantly smaller than the skyscraper-sized landing ships used by huge IG forces, of course. The Imperium definitely has such craft. They have a huge array of transatmospheric vehicles, from little Aquila landers all the way up to the enormous dropships that can put down 100,000 Guardsmen in one go, and everything in between. They certainly have shuttles ranging from Thunderhawk-sized to jumbo-jet-sized for deploying smaller forces.

Project2501
10-06-2010, 05:39
Teleportation. The ability to put a force/small army whereever you want instantly and without a trace is the best possible scenario I/an attacker could want.

Or the Eldar webway for the much the same reason(s).

MvS
10-06-2010, 07:15
Yep, teleportation or aerial insertion equipment - so drop pods, Thunderhawks, jump packs, speeders.

Malagate
10-06-2010, 07:37
Yep, teleportation or aerial insertion equipment - so drop pods, Thunderhawks, jump packs, speeders.

Or just being a Necron, one moment there's nothing and the next there's a silvery horde of them standing outside. That's teleportation, probably even better than daemons themselves (although it is badass to rip a hole in reality and walk through it onto a battlefield).

AndrewGPaul
10-06-2010, 07:39
You could fit a typical Tau army into a Manta, possibly with an Orca alongside, especially if the troops ride down inside their Devilfish.

A typical Imperial Guard army doesn't look to me like the sort of thing that would be landed by itself. The current favourite armoured forces look like part of a larger army, so that's not really the scope of this thread. Something like the army depicted in Imperial Armour volume 8 would be landed by medium dropships in a secure landing zone, then advance to the front in vehicles and aircraft.

Space Marines have their Landing Craft, which carries 6 Rhinos (or variants) or 4 Land Raiders, plus troops (I can't remember the troop-carrying capacity at the moment). It's quite huge, and reasonably well-armed - with two Predator-like autocannon turrets and at least half a dozen Razorback-like heavy bolter anti-infantry turrets.

Marshal2Crusaders
10-06-2010, 07:47
I think the Mana breaks atmo, and the Devilfish can deploy from there, albeit at a reasonable height. The Manta is definitely going to work like that massive space shuttle from Avatar.

Shas'La T'au
10-06-2010, 10:31
…I'm thinking Thunderhawk Gunships, Thunderhawk Transporters, Drop Pods, teleporation, etc.


…I'm thinking huge drop ships capable of transporting entire armies - infantry, armour, super-heavy armour, leviathans, titans etc.


But what about the deployment of a much smaller force? What about a force the size of a typical 40k army?

Mmmm…I think I have a problem in understanding just what you’re asking for?
You’ve mentioned just about any form of surface-deployment available in the 40K. Other then some hilarious other forms – as asteroids, which is already mentioned, I can’t think of any other.
And when you say typical 40K army and think of a smaller force, would that make a larger one non-typical 40K one? I’m confused… :confused:




The only specific example I can think of right now is two to three Tau Mantas.

In the light of your thread’s title How would you get a small army to the surface quickly? how would be a Manta missile destroyer quicker then say, drop-pods?





Tau ships are designed to break into orbit easily IIRC, as they're not Warp capable.

I think that your statement is quite confusing, no offence. What has not being Warp capable to do with being able to easy break into orbit???
Even so, I can hardly imagine a non-Warp capable, Gravitic-Drive driven, Il’fannor or Lar’shi cruiser classes or even the smaller Kass’l class gun-ship (non-gravitic) breaking into a planet’s orbit (although art-work do show the Skether’qan class escorts deploying troops close to the ground; Tau Codex, p.6-7)





You could fit a typical Tau army into a Manta, possibly with an Orca alongside, especially if the troops ride down inside their Devilfish.

The Manta class missile destroyer can deploy a full-armed Hunter Cadre on the ground. It wouldn’t need an Orca class dropship, unless the Orca is there for further supplies deployment.
Manta deployments might be the most effective. Being able to deploy both Hammerhead gun-ships and Devilfish APCs while Stealth and Crisis teams could deploy half-way down by use of jet-packs, plus its own awesome firepower, the Mantas are IMO the most effective – if not rapid – Tau planetary deployment way.



I think the Mana breaks atmo, and the Devilfish can deploy from there, albeit at a reasonable height. The Manta is definitely going to work like that massive space shuttle from Avatar.

The Manta would need to be pretty close to the ground for Devilfish to deploy indeed, the later being a skimmer and all that. Say, max. 20-30 m off the ground?

Argastes
10-06-2010, 13:52
What the heck do you guys mean by "break into orbit" anyhow? That's not a real astronautical term. Do you mean enter orbit around a planet from an interplanetary trajectory? If so, why would Tau ships be "better" at it because of their interstellar propulsion system? That would be a maneuver that's equally important for Imperial ships (and everyone else) regardless of the means they use to travel between star systems.

Memnos
10-06-2010, 13:54
Imperial Black Ship.

I don't know what they put on those things, but if one landed near me I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

Stonerhino
10-06-2010, 14:20
Page 7 Tau codex shows an Orca with Mantas in the background.

It should be also noted that Mantas are in fact FTL capable. Can enter and exit an atmosphere while transporting a desent force. Including 8 Remora stealth fighters.

Argastes
10-06-2010, 14:20
You’ve mentioned just about any form of surface-deployment available in the 40K.

No he hasn't, not even close. He's mentioned the most common methods used by the Space Marines (T-hawk, pods, teleportation) and the method used (when possible) by massive IG/Titan forces which need to land huge amounts of personnel/machines at once, but that's far from everything. If that was everything, then the IG and other non-SM Imperial forces would have a pretty limited choice of landing craft; city-block-sized dropship, or nothing! Again, the Imperium has all manner or shuttles and transtmospheric craft, ranging in size from the little Aquila landers up to the giant dropships, with plenty of stuff in between.

He didn't even mention everything the Marines use; they also have a heavy cargo shuttle, much bigger than a Thunderhawk and apparently intended to deploy lots of tanks to the surface at once, called a Landing Craft: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1060055&prodId=prod1110041

There was also the old Stormwind, bigger than a Thunderhawk as well (two to three times bigger IIRC) which was used by both SM and non-SM forces, though you don't hear much about them anymore.

Croakamancer
10-06-2010, 14:31
I think that your statement is quite confusing, no offence. What has not being Warp capable to do with being able to easy break into orbit???
Even so, I can hardly imagine a non-Warp capable, Gravitic-Drive driven, Il’fannor or Lar’shi cruiser classes or even the smaller Kass’l class gun-ship (non-gravitic) breaking into a planet’s orbit (although art-work do show the Skether’qan class escorts deploying troops close to the ground; Tau Codex, p.6-7)

Simple. A lot of the bulk of Imperial ships, IIRC, comes from the Plasma Drive. It's their method of sublight propulsion, rather dangerous close to planets, and, given that it also powers the ship, rather inefficient. Tau ships are sleeker, lighter, and don't, I would have thought, need that much power (which comes into play for Imperials when the Gellar field is raised) Thus they, whilst not certain to be able to break orbit, have better odds than Imperial forces, I'd have thought.

Confusing, true, but I'm not an expert in the army, let alone the fleet. I defer to superior knowledge and research.


What the heck do you guys mean by "break into orbit" anyhow? That's not a real astronautical term. Do you mean enter orbit around a planet from an interplanetary trajectory? If so, why would Tau ships be "better" at it because of their interstellar propulsion system? That would be a maneuver that's equally important for Imperial ships (and everyone else) regardless of the means they use to travel between star systems.

No, I didn't mean that (fair point on me getting the terminology wrong, my fault entirely). I was thinking of Tau ships actually landing, or coming close to it, planetside. Break Orbit, on reflection, was probably what I meant. As for reasoning, see above. I wasn't certain on it, but was going from a 'what I roughly recall', I have read minimal Tau fluff, don't know exactly how their ships are supposed to work, and was simply going off rough comparisons to Imperials. I differ to superior knowledge, as I say.

Argastes
10-06-2010, 14:35
Ahh okay, I see what you meant. "Break orbit" seems to be a common enough sci-fi term for such a maneuver, though the correct real-life astronautical term is "deorbit".

Leftenant Gashrog
10-06-2010, 15:22
I can't see the Orks using Roks to deploy small forces, they'd use Landa's: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1290360&prodId=prod1110135



The Manta would need to be pretty close to the ground for Devilfish to deploy indeed, the later being a skimmer and all that. Say, max. 20-30 m off the ground?

Depends how the Tau anti-grav works, Space Marine Jump Packs for instance allow marines to be dropped out of aircraft at much higher altitudes than the marine could ever jump since the packs anti-grav serves as a grav-chute.

PS: I thought deorbit meant crash? :P

Argastes
10-06-2010, 15:36
PS: I thought deorbit meant crash? :P

Nope, it just means to leave orbit and enter the atmosphere. This can be because a spacecraft conducts a deorbit burn with it's engines, or because of natural orbital decay. When old satellites are deorbited to get rid of them (or deorbit on their own because of orbital decay), the end result is often that they crash (usually into the ocean), but the Space Shuttle also deorbits itself at the end of each mission, the Apollo command modules/reentry vehicles deorbited themselves to land on Earth upon returning from the moon, a FOBS nuclear weapon deorbits itself to attack its target, a Thunderhawk gunship deorbits upon launching from a Strike Cruiser so that it can land it's troops on a planetary surface, etc. etc. etc.

Easy E
10-06-2010, 18:40
*Insert standard Ghurka joke here*