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Erwos
11-06-2010, 13:14
So, what's the protocol for ending games early? I was playing Chaos (me) vs Necrons last night, and at the end of turn 4, my wife called and asked me to pick her up from the train station (known event that I had warned of prior to the game, including the time it might happen). I was ahead (two objectives held, one contested) and think I would have won if things had been allowed to continue, but is that a game I should be counting as a win or no? Is "out of time" a valid ending condition?

EDIT: note that, in this particular case, I did give the time I thought it would end ahead of time.

Asmodia
11-06-2010, 13:17
I normally call it a draw, unless its absolutely obvious that there is a clear result.

Dead Man Walking
11-06-2010, 13:24
You tell your wife to find her own way home and you stay and find out just who the real man at the table is.:rolleyes:

Seriously? Your actually worried about who won and who didn't in a game of pushing little men across the table? Can't you just play to play? You warned your opponent you would have to leave early and since they knew about it thats all the protocol you have to worry about.

Really your priorities are pretty F'd up if your worried about who won that game. I mean are you keeping track of your win loss ratio and your worried that it mess up your imaginary score?

I mean if this happened to me I would just walk away from the table and never think of it twice and if my opponent was a git and asked me who won I would just shake thier hand and say, "You did, later."

Erwos
11-06-2010, 13:31
No need to be a jerk. I told him it was a draw. I was just curious what the consensus was for handling the situation.

Thud
11-06-2010, 13:56
If it's a friendly game, it doesn't really matter.

2099
11-06-2010, 14:36
Games used to only last till turn 4, back in the days of 2nd.
I sorta use that as a cut off point if a game official or not.
There’s nothing wrong with a draw though. Some of my best games end up that way.


You tell your wife to find her own way home and you stay and find out just who the real man at the table is.:rolleyes:


Just watch out, when ‘yer “soon to be ex-wife” takes half of your toy soldiers in the divorce.
Then you have to buy them back because she put everything up on E-bay....vengeful creatures.:cries:

Kurisu313
11-06-2010, 14:41
I was considering posting what Dead Man Walking said, but didn't because I thought it was a tad unfair. I do think the point is valid, though.

The game was neither a win, draw or loss, it was canceled. Real life takes priority. Challenge him to a rematch while he says "next time", shaking his fist dramatically.

The very notion of having to decide a winner half-way through becuase you gotta go strikes me as absurd.

The only exception to this would be in a competitive environment such a tournament where a result must be obtained, where I feel the leaving party, AKA you, must admit a loss.

Raven1
11-06-2010, 14:42
If I have had to end a game early, I generally know in advance, because I have time alloted for WH40k. The opponent knows and so it's not a big deal. I only play friendly games so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Erwos
11-06-2010, 14:59
If I have had to end a game early, I generally know in advance, because I have time alloted for WH40k. The opponent knows and so it's not a big deal. I only play friendly games so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
So, my question to you is, do you decide a winner or not at that point? Because that's roughly the situation here. I should note that I told my (pick-up game) opponent up front that I expected to have to end the game at 8PM, which is what happened. He agreed to those terms. If I had just had to drop the game out of nowhere, yes, I would agree with the crowd that this would be a draw (or my loss via forfeiture), no question. But, to my mind, it was more of a timed game, which makes time a legitimate end game condition.

(And, to head off questions, I didn't run down the clock or anything remotely similar, and neither did he.)

I agree that who won is ultimately unimportant - I don't mind losing, as I tend to find my lists and play improve more from that than winning. But I also like closure, and I don't think it's unfair to have a bit of it. "Nothing happened" is not a satisfying closure to 2.5 hours of gaming, IMHO.

I really, really do not want to come off as "I must win at all costs". That's simply not me, and I don't want my query to be interpreted as such. It would be a perfectly valid answer to say "you left, he wins", IMHO.

Hypaspist
11-06-2010, 15:04
If you had just (without warning) upped sticks and left, then he wins.

In a game where it's clear you may have to leave, and the time, and the likelihood, a draw (unless you could both agree on one person's domination at the end of the game) is the fair result.
that's my 2p's worth anyways :)

Bestaltan
11-06-2010, 15:12
If I'm strapped for time for whatever reason, and I have to walk away from a game because of time, I just concede and give my opponent the game. It's good sportsmanship to admit that my opponent has time to finish, but I don't. I've even conceded games where my opponent was getting absolutely thrashed, due to time constraints.

Sai-Lauren
11-06-2010, 15:26
If you and your opponent had fun, you won. If you didn't, you lost. ;)

I'd say draw as well - I tend to find that if I get a really lucky turn and get ahead, it'll very quickly turn around and bite me on the backside, so I never count a win until the last turn. :)

However, I take it either leaving the game set up and coming back later (with chips for you and your opponent of course), or making notes on the locations of everything and finishing the game off at another time weren't options though.

Omniassiah
11-06-2010, 15:42
If you really want to know who had won, since the time limit for the game was set before hand, you would have. Just like in pretty much any tournament I've been into the games go to either time or completion. In the case of time, the game ends immediately and the winner or draw is determined at the state of the game as time is called.

Now for the most part in a friendly game I would just not bother worrying about it.

the1stpip
11-06-2010, 15:44
Its amazing that, in a game of chess, it is considered unsporting to continue a game when there is no way you can win it, while in 40k it considered unsporting to end the game early if you are being battered.

Nezalhualixtlan
11-06-2010, 16:04
So, what's the protocol for ending games early? I was playing Chaos (me) vs Necrons last night, and at the end of turn 4, my wife called and asked me to pick her up from the train station (known event that I had warned of prior to the game, including the time it might happen). I was ahead (two objectives held, one contested) and think I would have won if things had been allowed to continue, but is that a game I should be counting as a win or no? Is "out of time" a valid ending condition?

I never consider "out of time" a valid ending condition unless it was agreed upon before the game started and both players knew the end condition and had equal opportunity to plan for the end of the game.

More than that, I never consider any games which fail to conclude as having any end result, no win, no lose, no draw - simply unresolved. I'm comfortable talking about probabilities for those conditions, likely win, likely lose, or likely draw, but they remain firmly unresolved in my mind regardless.

The only other valid end to the game I see if one player has to unexpectedly call it early is for them to unconditionally concede and hand their opponent the win. Otherwise, leave it unresolved and take the challenge to another day anew, or pick up where you left off if you can and have the means to catalog the game state.

Erwos
11-06-2010, 16:12
I never consider "out of time" a valid ending condition unless it was agreed upon before the game started and both players knew the end condition and had equal opportunity to plan for the end of the game.
See my later response, which actually notes that I did give a time that I expected the game to end, and events transpired that way.

Nezalhualixtlan
11-06-2010, 16:24
See my later response, which actually notes that I did give a time that I expected the game to end, and events transpired that way.

If you both agreed that 8pm was going to be the end of the game regardless of game turn and normal end conditions and your opponent was ok with that, then I would be comfortable with whatever the game state was at the end win, lose, or draw. The only thing that makes a difference to me is that all parties involved are operating under the same expected end conditions and agree to it so that they are planning for those conditions and do not have them unexpectedly changed on them mid-game. It's the same reason for talking about what terrain features count as and what your lists have in them, and what deployment rules reserves are using before the game starts. But yes, if you both agreed to it before hand, then I'd say you were all good assuming you ended with a full turn completed (if one of you got an additional turn there would be issues), including counting that as a win if you were ahead at that point.

don_mondo
11-06-2010, 17:24
In a friendly match, who cares?
In a timed event (tournament. league, whatever), when time runs out you check against the victory conditions and determine the winner.

Wolf Lord Balrog
11-06-2010, 18:13
Best to arrange the ending conditions ahead of time too, that way there is no question as to the outcome. But in your particular case, I would say whoever is winning at the time you had to leave is the winner. You both knew it might come to a random, sudden-death-type situation, so that was part of the fun of the game. :)

Gray Hunter
11-06-2010, 22:02
If you'd previously agreed with your opponent that the game would end at a set time no matter what, and that whomever was winning at that point would be the winner of the game, then fair enough.

It seems like in this case you warned your opponent that you might have to leave early, but didn't explicitly state how that would effect the victory conditions.

In this case, I'd have forfeited the game, even if I was ahead.

Ultimately though, it's a game for fun. If you both enjoyed yourselves, then who really cares who technically won?