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Hagnag
15-06-2010, 04:37
Can the Daemonhunters/Greyknights use a Land Rider Redeemer as heavy support, dedicated transport, and/or in any other capacity? If so, where is the text of rule or FAQ that will support this option specifically for the Redeemer?

The current Daemonhunter codex, which is relatively old and has several errors, only includes the Land Rider and the Land Rider Crusader, but does not name the Redeemer directly. The FAQ for the Daemonhunter's Codex does not mention it either. I have also read a lot of threads and believe the consensus is that you can only use the Redeemer if the opponent agrees. However, GW online shows the model under the Daemonhunters/Greyknights 40k army lists it as an available heavy support for the Greyknights.

Does GW online mean to say that you can buy the Redeemer model but you can only use it for Daemonhunters/Greyknights if you build it with the Crusader options? As an uneducated client I inferred that the Redeemer model could in fact be used legally for the Daemonhunters/Greyknights, but I am not sure.

In fact, I am confused, thank you in advance for your insights.

Thank you.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
15-06-2010, 04:45
if not in the codex it can only be used with allied marines.

kardar233
15-06-2010, 05:09
However, in one of the Imperial Armour books (2 I think?), there are rules for a Grey Knights Redeemer, which has flamestorm cannons with the incinerator's ignore invulnerable rule and twin-linked hull-mounted psycannons rather than the assault cannons.

Tethylis
15-06-2010, 05:19
Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2 has rules for the GK redeemer. Although I would not mind playing against it in a normal game many opponents might not be keen on the idea of you using units not listed in your codex so you should probably leave it out unless you know your opponent won't mind

MajorWesJanson
15-06-2010, 05:21
Yep, IA7 has the GK Redeemer, with Flamestorm Incinerators and Psykout grenade launchers. The model is rather pretty too.

FW GK Redeemer kit (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/gklrredeemer.jpg)

Noserenda
15-06-2010, 13:20
The Reason the "redeemer" is in the Daemonhunters section is because the kt also makes the Crusader, which they can take.

Simples.

But yes, there is a FW Redeemer which kicks **** :evilgrin:

Hagnag
15-06-2010, 13:50
All right, so if I understand correctly, the Imperial Armor Books are not an automatic ticket for 40k battles as they are for the Apocalypse/Forge World battles, right?

Let’s hope the upcoming Daemonhunter and Witchunter’s codexi will remedy all those mistakes. After all, we are the light of the Emperor, and the unblinking eye of his furious love to redeem the unbelievers.

Thank you all.

Erwos
15-06-2010, 15:12
All right, so if I understand correctly, the Imperial Armor Books are not an automatic ticket for 40k battles as they are for the Apocalypse/Forge World battles, right?
Forgeworld stuff, which includes their IA books, is unofficial, yes. Most people are fine with it in a friendly game context, but expect it to be banned if you abuse it too much.

Lord Damocles
15-06-2010, 18:09
Let’s hope the upcoming Daemonhunter and Witchunter’s codexi will remedy all those mistakes.
Come now, be fair.

It can hardly be called a 'mistake' that a unit which didn't exist until the best part of a decade later wasn't included in Codex: Daemonhunters.

Hagnag
16-06-2010, 01:13
Come now, be fair.

It can hardly be called a 'mistake' that a unit which didn't exist until the best part of a decade later wasn't included in Codex: Daemonhunters.

I was being humorous, but the words were mine so I ought to provide some simple errors that I have noticed, I am sure there is a plethora of them that I am not mentioning, but for the fun of it, here are my comments.

1) Daemonhunters’ Codex page 64, under Daemonic Infestation, the word “Vicory” was used in error.
2) Codex: Daemonhunters’ FAQ, page 1, under Machine Spirit, it says “…a weapon that has moved at combat speed can fire two weapons,”
3) According to the fluff, all those vehicles (such as the Land Rider Redeemer) ought to be allowed directly in the Daemonhunter’s 40k Armies, a simple line saying, for “friendly games or a per players’ agreement” would suffice.

I would also say that it will stand to fluff that you could change the names of some weapons and give them whatever parameters you wish, page 64 of the Daemonhunter’s Codex show us an inferior (just the thought of a Greyknight holding an inferior weapon is anathema) Assault Cannon, with a different name particular to the Daemonhunters, it can just be that and no confusion would be found even if the error exists because of obsolescence in the codex.

However, I must admit that what you are saying is true. The ever changing rules are bound to provide for errors from time to time, an interesting way to keep the marketing boys busy and sales alive in that area of the business. That being said, enticing the uneducated to buy Redeemers that cannot be used by the Daemonhunters 40k armies is blasphemous and the practice should be introduced to the promethium and blessed oils of a webpage edit.:skull:

Thanks again.

LonelyPath
16-06-2010, 02:09
As already meantioned, there is the GK Land Raider redeemer in IA7 and that can be used as a heavy support coice in regular and Apoc games (it's also in IA Apoc 2). For regular games however it will require your opponents' permission.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
16-06-2010, 02:59
As already meantioned, there is the GK Land Raider redeemer in IA7 and that can be used as a heavy support coice in regular and Apoc games (it's also in IA Apoc 2). For regular games however it will require your opponents' permission.

It's been a long time since I looked at the DH codex but it would be codex legal if you can take a HS choice or terminators with Redeemer Dedicated transport. But i cant remember if they can take HS or Elites from allied forces.

Vaktathi
16-06-2010, 03:56
Forgeworld stuff, which includes their IA books, is unofficial, yes. Most people are fine with it in a friendly game context, but expect it to be banned if you abuse it too much.

They aren't "unofficial", they've got a GW copyright and a Citadel Models stamp on them, rather they are "additional".

OP: let's be honest, anyone getting super bumhurt over a GK Redeemer is probably not worth playing anyway

FabricatorGeneralMike
16-06-2010, 06:43
They aren't "unofficial", they've got a GW copyright and a Citadel Models stamp on them, rather they are "additional".

OP: let's be honest, anyone getting super bumhurt over a GK Redeemer is probably not worth playing anyway

^ no doubt. The IA books have GW/FW on them so why can't I use them. I am doing a SoB army and I would like to take 6 repressors as ded trans for my Sisters. I think doing drive-by's is great with them. Shooting 6 bolters and a special weapon from the top hatch with a HF template for less then a Immolaitor is a great price IMHO.

Alot of FW stuff is crap and way overpriced so I guess they got to get something right every now and again ;)

lethlis
16-06-2010, 08:11
So what is the official GW stance on things like Forgeworld, do they let you take them at GTs?

Hagnag
16-06-2010, 13:57
As already meantioned, there is the GK Land Raider redeemer in IA7 and that can be used as a heavy support coice in regular and Apoc games (it's also in IA Apoc 2). For regular games however it will require your opponents' permission.

Ah, déjà vu, all over again, Mr. George Orwell’s premise that there are some animals that are more equal than others applies nicely to your writings that there are some regular games are more regular than others. You imply that the first regular the one supported by the IA7 books is more regular than your second regular, the regular that needs approval from your fellow players. Furthermore, I infer that this second regular, your second regular where the player approval is needed, is the one that applies to regular 40k armies and the games you regularly play with them.

In my simple opinion, if you show the Redeemer as a regular option for a direct buy for a regular Warhammer 40k Daemonhunter/Greyknight army, such as is the case in their online store as of right now for the USA, then by all rights, a regular player with no acumen of the game or access to interesting and humorous forums can and should be able to buy the model, and play it directly in a regular Warhammer 40k game, without having to double check with all players he/she interacts with if it is all right with them to use the models he owns.

Otherwise edit the page, and say, “dude, this cool Redeemer model, is just for better than normal regular games, so get your buddy’s approval for the lesser than normal and therefore regular 40k games to play it.”:skull:

Thanks


PS. I hope it is tacit that humor is the objective concept behind my post.

Mannimarco
16-06-2010, 15:35
So what is the official GW stance on things like Forgeworld, do they let you take them at GTs?

GW have previously said that theres more to the hobby than tournament play.

Most tournaments set their own rules and regulations anyway. GW does not allow FW at its on tournament which has given rise to "its not official GW so your not using it" this combined with many people loose interpretation on what is actually written in the first couple of pages of an IA book.

However (sombody correct me if im wrong) I believe adepticon did allow some FW stuff, just not the game breaking models such as super heavies, gargantuan creatures and fliers.

The hostile (and it is hostile) attitude to FW seems to have lessened as of late though, there was a time not to long ago that if you suggested using FW models you would get the same look that sombody would give you if you just said somthing about the other players mother.

To anybody who claims that FW isnt GW I would ask you to take a FW model to your local GW store: we all know they are told to make sure nobody is coming in with other models that may be a threat to their own monopoly, I actually had a staffer fawning over my vraksians and my new malcador offering to help me build it. If it wasnt "official GW" im sure I would be told to put them away in pretty short order.

OP: your already playing daemonhunters who arnt exactly tearing up battlefields all over the world, they're actually pretty weak as an army so its not like you are gaining some massive game breaking advantage by taking the GK redeemer