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Alltaken
16-06-2010, 14:36
Hi guys, just read this rumor:

Merged profiles

* Monstrous mounts (such as Giant eagles, Juggernauts, Pegasi, Unicorns and so on, but not large monsters like Dragons and Griffons) "merge" their profile with the rider. They cant be targetted or slain seperately. Instead the model will use the toughness of the rider and the higher of both wound stats. A hero (2 wounds) riding a Pegaus (3 Wounds) will have 3 wounds and the T stat of the rider.


So with this supposed rumor, our carno (not a large target) can't be targeted thus rendering him basically imune to damage, since there are gonna be new armor our Oldblood will get much thougher, with that nice heavy armor that grants 4+Ward Save this little fella goes toe to toe against some unkillable lords.

What do think about this? Is he coming back with this?

Bac5665
16-06-2010, 15:02
Well...

TLoS means that the carnosaur can be shot again, so, I'm still leery of it, but it certainly is possible that it gets a boost.

Faeslayer
16-06-2010, 15:13
I think the Carnosaur would be on the same level as a griffon rather than a pegasus, if that were true.

Voss
16-06-2010, 15:18
I don't think the carnosaur will end up qualifying for this rule. I'd have to see it myself, but I don't think a generalization of 'large monsters' is the same as 'monsters with the large target special rule' By the examples it seems to be aimed at the ~50 point mounts.

Even if it is, I'm not sure its a boon- it seems when the rider is killed, the model gets picked up and doesn't remain on the table, and you've definitely lost some wounds (between the two models).

Alltaken
16-06-2010, 15:20
Carnosaur does go in the same base as juggers though. I think they'll keep it "small" target

willowdark
16-06-2010, 15:24
Did the Carnosaur go somewhere?

Hands down the best alternative Lord option to the Slann, and I see it all the time.

It will be interesting to see how this works, but you have an Errata to deal with. I'd say it's to soon to tell.

Alltaken
16-06-2010, 16:04
Did the Carnosaur go somewhere?

Rumors made him easier to target for shooting and didn't break flanks, so he lost soundly to the slann

willowdark
16-06-2010, 16:08
Oh! In context of rumours. I thought you meant currently he didn't come around.

I think that on July 10 we'll finally have enough info to see where the Carni fits in the list. Not before.

McBaine
16-06-2010, 16:36
Carnosaur does go in the same base as juggers though. I think they'll keep it "small" target
yeah, and the griffon and some Dragons have also the same base and are large targets. Thats not a good argument.

Dont forget that the Carnosaur could get a large target rule via erata...

We'll just have to wait and see.

Jind_Singh
16-06-2010, 17:54
not sure what to make about this rule - that means my 2 favorite mounts, the Giant Squig and Gigantic spider are easier to do away with now - and no more monster reaction table if someone kills my rider! Since they both have toughness 4 I don't care about using anyone's particular toughness, and before they had 5 combined wounds - now it'll be 3!
But on the other hand I wonder how killing blow affects the combined model....mmm, and if the spider passes his higher infinitive to the rider also?

TroyJPerez
16-06-2010, 19:05
I am ok with them being one model, it mean that when I do a wound with the peutrification Glave they both go to toughness and strength 2, lol.

Dungeon_Lawyer
16-06-2010, 19:50
no return around these parts--After seeing those magic lores for the 1st time today there is no way in hell the carny will ever make it to the table.....Magic is just too devastating---my army nneds the SLann to protect it against magic onslaught and the Slann is just too good at casting himself.

I prefering imolating armies with chain lightning with my Slann to breaking one unit with my carny...luv the model though..

Zoolander
16-06-2010, 21:51
Hi guys, just read this rumor:

Merged profiles

* Monstrous mounts (such as Giant eagles, Juggernauts, Pegasi, Unicorns and so on, but not large monsters like Dragons and Griffons) "merge" their profile with the rider. They cant be targetted or slain seperately. Instead the model will use the toughness of the rider and the higher of both wound stats. A hero (2 wounds) riding a Pegaus (3 Wounds) will have 3 wounds and the T stat of the rider.


So with this supposed rumor, our carno (not a large target) can't be targeted thus rendering him basically imune to damage, since there are gonna be new armor our Oldblood will get much thougher, with that nice heavy armor that grants 4+Ward Save this little fella goes toe to toe against some unkillable lords.

What do think about this? Is he coming back with this?

With TLoS, I believe you'd be a fool to take the carnosaur as you can't even hide him behind woods. But more test games are needed on that one.

Paraelix
16-06-2010, 21:52
*cough merged stats don't apply to monstrous mounts cough*

EDIT- I don't think "Large Target" is the defining point... I think it is base size...

One rule to check up on

Kayosiv
17-06-2010, 00:24
*cough merged stats don't apply to monstrous mounts cough*

EDIT- I don't think "Large Target" is the defining point... I think it is base size...

One rule to check up on

The Pegasus is a monstrous mount in the current rules, as is defined as any mount with more than 1 wound on its profile.
A chaos juggernaut is the same size monster/base, but it has 1 wound and thus is not a monstrous mount, for no real "reason" than because the rules say so.

If the OP's observation is true, it makes the carnosaur the best mount in the entire game bar none.

This would mean that the carnosaur would be able to use an Oldblood's ward save and armor save.

Imagine a 1+ armor save 4+ ward save Carnosaur. Heck, it's worth it to pay 210 points to give my oldblood 2 more wounds, movement 7, and 4-5 more attackds that do d3 wounds.

They key here is the meaning of "large monsters like dragons and griffons" specifically. Large monster does not equal large target, although it might.

It seems like a loophole to me, one that will likely be in errata if true, but we'll have to see.

Large mounts in general don't seem worth it this edition due to increased power of magic, shooting, and striking in initiative order counterbalancing the speed that such mounts bring. If the carnosaur can stay a viable choice, I'll be quite happy, considering how cool and expensive the model is.

On a somewhat related note, Bonebreaker rat ogre mounts for skaven warlords will become AMAZING with this change, and they are already quite good in the current edition.

Nicha11
17-06-2010, 01:01
Hands down the best alternative Lord option to the Slann.


It is the only alternative....

Voss
17-06-2010, 01:37
*cough merged stats don't apply to monstrous mounts cough*

EDIT- I don't think "Large Target" is the defining point... I think it is base size...

One rule to check up on

I don't know that its that either. It may be one of the things defined in the errata, and future army books. I really suspect its just wounds and cost. 2 (and maybe 3) wound mounts around 50 points will get something similar to the monstrous cav classification rather than Monster mounts (which is more or less what is happening). A detailed reading of the rules may clear it up, but I suspect the errata holds the ultimate answer.

Hellebore
17-06-2010, 01:47
If we are supposed to be getting multi page erratas for each army then it would be reasonable to expect this to be sorted out on a case by case basis within the army book.

It might be as simple as calling dragons et al 'Monstrous Mounts' whilst juggernaughts etc are called 'Mighty Mounts' or something.

Certainly when in doubt give it a name. Clears things up easily.

Hellebore

Voss
17-06-2010, 01:53
Actually, it does that in the general case

Monster mounts are separate in the rulebook from Monstrous Cavalry, which covers things like bloodcrushers. Which are, of course, largely getting the rules mentioned here- the bloodletter's wounds go from 1 -> 2, though they do also get a toughness increase.

Hellebore
17-06-2010, 01:55
Maybe then Monstrous Calvary is it and it says in it what you do when a character rides one ie becomes monstrous cavalry.

Hellebore

someone2040
17-06-2010, 02:17
I suspect in the errata we'll get clear classifications of each type of unit/mount/etc. Or at the very least, clarification for one's that aren't straightforward.

So don't think the Carnosaur will get away with this. Although on the other hand, a Cannon could take both of them out in one hit now, rather than needing two shots.

kaintxu
17-06-2010, 03:01
bloodleter on juggys allready have 2 wounds an T4, so its actually no new new's for them

decker_cky
17-06-2010, 05:30
No need for an errata. There's actually a guide which lists the unit type of everything in the game in the rulebook. Carnosaur is listed as a monster and not as monstrous cavalry.

Case closed. :P

guillaume
17-06-2010, 09:43
To the OP, indeed, I have to say that my carnie never went anywhere. It has been battling ever since 6th edition.

As for the new magic being devastating. Yes, but that's why i have myself a skink priest on hand with a diadem of power. Try to dispel as much as possible. Finally, the new magic items will make for a nice return of the 4+ ward save for our old blood riding the carnie.

Also, i did notice a 5pts magic item giving a +1 to ward save against war machines...that is a potential 3+ for our lord against cannons and such.

Sure would LOVE to have all the stats merged into one, but I think it will be unlikely for the carnie. even if it doesnt qualify as a large target.

minionboy
17-06-2010, 09:49
No need for an errata. There's actually a guide which lists the unit type of everything in the game in the rulebook. Carnosaur is listed as a monster and not as monstrous cavalry.

Case closed. :P

Decker beat me to it.

But as he said, the big summary section at the back of the book clearly defines exactly what kind of classification every unit for every army is.

Kayosiv
17-06-2010, 09:55
Then the question becomes will the initiative 2 4-5 attack model with weapon skill 3 be worth using in a game where everyone takes 50 model infantry blocks?

It'll still continue to own against ogre sized models and other monsters, but how many of those will we see in games? Not to mention, charging a unit of dragon ogres or maneaters is going to be a death wish for the carnosaur instead of a bloodbath in his favor. With multiple ranks of strength 4-5 things hitting him, I'm not sure what the carnosaur will ever survive against to even attack anything.