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Vsurma
16-06-2010, 19:30
I always loved going magic heavy so I will stick with that, I am also excited about the ability to use a dragon in the lizardmen army so I definitely want to give that a go.

Lords 740pts
Slann Fire lore, rumination, full lore, Cupped hands, bane head, BSB, power stone 430pts

Slann Beast lore, Full lore, energy scroll (IF on any double) 310pts
(activates the scroll, rolls 6 dice and turns into a dragon with IF)

Heroes 225pts
Skink priest lv2, dispel scroll. 125pts
Skink priest lv1, Forbidden staff (suicide mage to give me d6 extra dice) 100pts

A LOT of points in mages but it should give me a killer magic phase.

Core 753pts
20 Saurus, HW/S, full command 250pts
21 skinks with full command 127pts
21 skinks with full command 127pts
11 skinks with brave, blowpipes 83pts
11 skinks with brave, blowpipes 83pts
11 skinks with brave, blowpipes 83pts

I like 11 in case the enemy brings a tough character, thirster or dragon etc, I can charge, challenge with brave, lose by a fair few but since I have more ranks I will be stubborn on ld6 so should hang around :=)

Special 1042pts
3 Terradons 90pts
6 Kroxigor 330pts
6 Kroxigor 330pts
16 Temple guard, full comm 292pts

Kroxigors will be amazing, 18 S6 attacks and 4-6 stomp attacks per unit.

Rare 240pts
2*Salamanders w/ extra handlers 160pts
1*Salamander w/ extra handler 80pts

No partials and enemies taking large units....these guys will be AMAZING!

3000pts on the dot.

Now this is obviously as magic heavy as an army can really get in 8th edition (vamps might get more dice but prob no one else)

The idea is, Turn 1 I get my 2d6 magic dice, if its less than 10 I use my suicide lv1 to generate d6 extra.

The beast slann turns himself into a dragon with IF using 6 dice, the remaining dice are used by the slann with the lore of firing, throwing 1 dice + free dice on each spell, using the power stone if I need to.

The following turns the slann just goes to town on 1 unit each turn.
The lv2 skink priest is there just in case I roll 1,1 or 1,2 with the fire slann, I don't want to lose a single magic phase.

Slann deals major magic damage, salamanders go for the enemies large blocks, skinks take out the large creatures (they can even poison enemy skirmishers now!), Krox combo charge with skinks (minimising skinks in btb with enemy units) to kill things. Temple guard and saurus hold enemies in place.

What you guys think? I just need to put my 2nd slann together and start making some unit fillers.

Can't wait to try it out.

Malorian
16-06-2010, 19:37
Keep in mind that any spell that you get with IF you also roll on the loss of control table.

So in turning into a dragon he might do more damage to your own army than he'll do to the opponent...

Vsurma
16-06-2010, 19:44
I don't really think I mind with a slann though, 5 wounds 4+ ward. Most of them won't hurt it too much.

The slann can either be hidden away somewhere, or it can be within 3" of a unit for the look out sir (I think, assuming its classed as infantry) for the first turn, outside of a unit anyway so I think it won't do too much damage.

I suppose it could go in a skink unit also if I wanted.

Another option would be not use the IF item and just cast on 5 dice, but the enemy can scroll this so I kind of like the guaranteed IF.

At least for the first game for shock value.... "I will become a dragon and you cannot stop me" :)

4d6 attacks
super stomp
breath attacks

anyone think 20+ attacks for a single model is pushing it? (S7 attacks)

Spiney Norman
17-06-2010, 00:53
You're taking a 310pt wizard to have a chance of turning him into a monster which would cost about the same?

If you are fixated on this, how about giving the beast slann the cupped hands, that way he can go for the irresistible roll, dragonise himself, and then palm the loss of control effect off on an enemy mage. Double whammy :)

The last thing you want is your precious slann turning into a dragon before getting unceremoniously sucked into the realm of chaos.

Vsurma
17-06-2010, 07:11
Yea fair enough, I had considered it, might be a good idea. Seeing as with that IF item I am going to get IF about 98% of the time. So yea, good idea.

Cupped hands for the beast mage, he turns into a dragon and the enemy feels some pain.... mean

But yea, it is 310pts with its present build for that almost guaranteed chance to turn into a dragon. But the thing is, this dragon is waaaay waaay waaaay better than than the 330pts stardragon (which you have to take a lord for making it 500pts+ really)

The mountain dragon has 4d6 hits, breath attacks at S5 and and d6 stomp attacks. T7 and 10 wounds, stardragon doesn't come close.

The thing with the cupped hands though is I can only have it for 1 mage, if I take it on the dragon mage, sure the enemy takes the damage on turn 1, but then when my other slann miscasts, he does so in the temple guard unit!

I think I would rather miscast on that beast mage, I could take, soul of stone if I really feared losing the slann.

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 05:38
i would not give the cupper hand to the dragon slann, take into mind, you really need it in case the fire slann gets an IF which you would not like to get a S10 template all over your TG.

i think skirmirshers are not going to be stubborn on more ranks, so the 11 guy thing is a non sense.

Everything else is ok

Vsurma
18-06-2010, 05:44
Yea fair enough, it would seem my dragon trap no longer works since they get so many attacks these days....oh wait it does. I can still challenge, lose 1 and while not stubborn the skinks lose on 5, 4 if I charged.

With cold blooded ld9 and a bsb nearby the skinks can still hold dragons which is nice.

Yea I have been thinking about the slanns, I think the beast mage might want to run in a unit of skinks, that way if some die from miscast you don't really care, maybe take soul of stone or the item that gives 1 re-roll to the miscast table if I want.

This way the other can stay in his temple guard, if he really wants to, not quite sure.

Generally anything that can beat TG, or even saurus, is going to be more expensive and thus have less ranks (barring GW wielding hordes) so your likely stubborn anyway.

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 12:56
what i meant about the skinks is that, skirmirshers do not count has having ranks, so they are no longer stuborn. has nothing to do with the ld9 and cold blooded.

If they get to be boldblooded, its great

I also had your idea with the dragon stalnn, but what are you going to do, throw all that dice into him turning and when your oponent turn come if he is not strong at magic he is going to use his PD to dispell it? and you'll be naked? or if in combat you'll be screwed

Heimagoblin
18-06-2010, 18:00
Unfortunatly,I don't think the spell that turns you into a dragon have no real use in the game as they can be scrolled and leave your precious wizard unprotected.

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 19:43
the idea is to IF it, so no scroll against it.

The real problem is that it's easy to dispell on the enemy magic phase so your gonna be screwed

chaoslordmassurgi
18-06-2010, 20:22
I don't really think I mind with a slann though, 5 wounds 4+ ward. Most of them won't hurt it too much.

its all well and good turing into a dragon but your ward saves wont save you if you roll a 2-4 on the out of control table followed by a 1-3 you are lost in the warp...

Demandrer
18-06-2010, 21:10
Its a lot of effort and a big risk for potential small gain and in the enemy phase if they dispel your dragon in combat turns into a slann:(

Novrain
18-06-2010, 21:23
tbh I dont get the big deal with the "turning into a dragon thing"

mega - expensive slann turns into dragon, possibly killing itself on the way, then bites all of the shots from the D6 wounding cannons next turn, or gets tarpitted by some unit cheaper than the points cost of the slann!

It seems a very silly thing to build a list around to me...

kaintxu
20-06-2010, 02:48
vsurna, you know we have talked long about the dragony thingy but every day it passed im more into they slann + magic carpet + death lore + the items that makes his 4+ ward into 2+ against ranged atacks (so all canons, magic,... well anywhitng but close combat) since he flies he is not goint to get caught.

You throw a couple spells with him, do some wounding weakening, regain dice, then go onto your fire slann. Im seeing it way more usefull, plus you got the -3 to enemy ld and the great power whirl which is casted from a flank can be really nasty :D

Lotl Botl
20-06-2010, 05:01
also Im pretty sure Slann aren't on foot so they cant transform into those nasty cool beasties, i thought about that also. Going magic heavy is so much better now too that we have interesting incredibly potent basic lores now

Vsurma
20-06-2010, 09:29
vsurna, you know we have talked long about the dragony thingy but every day it passed im more into they slann + magic carpet + death lore + the items that makes his 4+ ward into 2+ against ranged atacks (so all canons, magic,... well anywhitng but close combat) since he flies he is not goint to get caught.

You throw a couple spells with him, do some wounding weakening, regain dice, then go onto your fire slann. Im seeing it way more usefull, plus you got the -3 to enemy ld and the great power whirl which is casted from a flank can be really nasty :D

Sure, the dragon isn't the best spell out there, but its fun, I only play lizards so I have never got to run a flying monstrosity. Just want to give it a shot.

I can see the whole death + fire slann combos working as well. Though if you spend all your dice on that purple sun and it is dispelled then you don't get any extra dice and your fire slann has little to use.

I think you can compensate a little by taking a Pstone, the forbidden staff? item that gives you d6 Pdice and you take d3 wounds. With a slann that averages out to 1 wound which I can live with.

Vsurma
20-06-2010, 09:30
also Im pretty sure Slann aren't on foot so they cant transform into those nasty cool beasties, i thought about that also. Going magic heavy is so much better now too that we have interesting incredibly potent basic lores now

Well, I made a thread in the rules forum to debate this, atm I am leaning towards its possible but I mostly play tournaments so its the organisers call until it is clarified.

Lotl Botl
21-06-2010, 02:35
Okay i see, if you are a allowed then an ethereal regenerating (3+) dragon would be fun as hell to play with, and be hell to play against. Not to mention it would be awesome to replace the model and place a huge dragon on the table.

kaintxu
21-06-2010, 02:40
Sure, the dragon isn't the best spell out there, but its fun, I only play lizards so I have never got to run a flying monstrosity. Just want to give it a shot.

I can see the whole death + fire slann combos working as well. Though if you spend all your dice on that purple sun and it is dispelled then you don't get any extra dice and your fire slann has little to use.

I think you can compensate a little by taking a Pstone, the forbidden staff? item that gives you d6 Pdice and you take d3 wounds. With a slann that averages out to 1 wound which I can live with.

If its for fun go for it, without a doubt, i was more taling about tourneys of competitive play. but I'm going to try it for sure on normal night gaming :D


Okay i see, if you are a allowed then an ethereal regenerating (3+) dragon would be fun as hell to play with, and be hell to play against. Not to mention it would be awesome to replace the model and place a huge dragon on the table.

Why pay 50 poitsn to give him regenerating 3+ when he is allready ethereal and has a 4+ war, regen and wars no longer stuck its one or the other so 50 points for just that +1 its really not worth it, take into mind that this is a second mage so you better off not spending too much on it

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 10:48
I think if they allow ethereal on the dragon it is pretty horrible, I see no reason for that, even the 4+ ward is horrible.

The dragon should be played as is (as the most powerful model to see play....) I don't see why they wanted to let you keep your special abilities.

They could have just made a ruling that turning your VC lord into a dragon doesn't cause your entire army to crumble (which is the main reason I can see them allowing the mage to keep its special abilities)