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mafty
17-06-2010, 02:00
Ever goto your FLGS and its evident people arent playing/in between games. So you ask around for anyone interested in getting one started. They ask what you play and you tell them, only to see them go "oh......" and all of a sudden they dont want to play you anymore.

Now I dont play an OP army (far from it), but it seems like lots of people have this weird misconcepted fear of my armies codex (Eldar fyi.....yea I know).


Anyone else get this from time to time? (BTW, I get this a lot from tau players, outside of tournements Tau players almost refuse to play me).

Bookwrak
17-06-2010, 02:30
It's hilarious when I try for a pick up game, how often someone will go, 'Necrons? No way, they're so cheesey.'

deacon52
17-06-2010, 02:51
yeah thats a bit funny aye. being honest though there are certain armies that make me a little nervous(ap1,2,3 blast weapons). but i have never turned down a game because of it, just charged in and hopefully i survived.

but its very unsportman like to pick and choose who you play, its all just for fun in the end.

scopedog91
17-06-2010, 03:21
I tend to refuse games based on the stench of the other player, as standing across from them for an hour and a half or so is painful...
The only time I will really refuse a game is if it is someone whom I have played three times in the last three weeks, or if I know them to be a "troubled" type, like the quits after three turns 'cuz he lost his HQ in close combat again, etc.

That, and the stinky guy...

woodfin
17-06-2010, 03:24
This is why I play with buddies at a house.

MajorWesJanson
17-06-2010, 03:43
Now I dont play an OP army (far from it), but it seems like lots of people have this weird misconcepted fear of my armies codex (Eldar fyi.....yea I know).



I personally hate Eldar and Dark Angels, mainly for ideological reasons. I have no issue playing against them. Or using bits of their models in my armies.

Some units do annoy me to play against, like Nob bikers or mixed up Thunderwolf herds, but I have yet to refuse a game.

eclipsed
17-06-2010, 04:52
That, and the stinky guy...

Agreed, do people just buy houses without a shower?

Clearchus
17-06-2010, 05:08
I have met several players over the years who refuse to play against some of my armies. I will play against any army, and give them a good fight regardless. It used to be that everyone would play against my Imperial Guard (because they assumed they could just flatten them), but would refuse to play against my Black Templars. Now it's the other way around. The Imperial Guard can hold their own against anybody now, and the Black Templars have an annoying habit of running away.

EmperorEternalXIX
17-06-2010, 06:02
I think a lot of this stems from Warhammer's biggest issue: Many players do not fully understand the opposing armies.

Ultimately, what ends up happening, is people play one uneducated game (what we call in my club, "the recon game") and make snap judgments about the power levels, units, etc.

You see this all the time. A guy loses a Carnifex to Jaws of the World Wolf, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down.

I dealt with this a lot with the Space Wolves, but you see it all the time with every army. They do their trick, the enemy has unwittingly played directly into said trick, and the enemy player sees how well it works when he runs right into it and goes "Oh what a crock." It happened to ME just the other week, as I foolishly dove onto a unit of Lash Whip Warriors with my Grey Hunters, forgetting the Lash Whip rules. It also happens the other way plenty too:

**guy charges squad into my Grey Hunters expecting a measly 10 attacks back**
**Roll for counterattack, explain the 30 attacks back**
**Guy: "WTF?!"**

I hear all about how OP my three squads of Ld8 GH are...even now as my opponents learn to avoid them and shoot them from afar, which keeps them out of much of the game.

There is nothing quite as hilarious as hearing how BS one of your units is even as your enemy is dismantling it.

The problem is these generalizations are formed during the aforementioned "recon game" when the enemy is clueless as to your capabilities. Later games, they can and do deal with these things without much issue. However, the legacy of your OP unit/move/tactic lives on forever afterward...as my GH and Lone Wolf can both attest to.

Markkoh
17-06-2010, 06:41
lol, so true

Bookwrak
17-06-2010, 06:54
You see this all the time. A guy loses a Carnifex to Jaws of the World Wolf, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down.

Hilariously, I had that happen to me when I was playing a team game at GW for the release of Planetstrike. To tie up an imperial guard command squad, I charged them with my dakkafex, and that was pretty much what the IG player said when I said, 'Wait, did you just roll armor saves and FNP? It's an MC, so both of those get nixed."

Dwane Diblie
17-06-2010, 07:06
I have only seen one excuse for not wanting to play an opponent.
Orks vs Deathwing Land Raiders.
Compleatly understandable.

Vedar
17-06-2010, 07:08
I refuse to play Tau. I mean come on man you mean you can shoot me with a beam of light and I GET NO COVER SAVE?!?...... I jest. I play any and all armies. I quite often learn the hard way what this do the first time I play them. Your Nob bikers do what? Your Hammernaters re-roll huh? Your genestealers pop out of where? You learn, adapt and bring melta weapons for the Vulkan/Hammernator/Landraider of Doom.

IcedAnimals
17-06-2010, 07:41
I have had people refuse to play me because I often take repressors. The best part is when after they refuse to play me because of the repressors I often say "fine, just call them counts as rhinos" and the guy will still refuse. Even though IA books are part of the core rules its amazing how many people refuse to use them and refuse to play anyone who does. Its not like people are fielding titans in your games. Its just updating our codex rules to be more in line with the current edition such as making rhinos 35 points instead of 50 for sisters.

ReveredChaplainDrake
17-06-2010, 07:56
I have only seen one excuse for not wanting to play an opponent.
Orks vs Deathwing Land Raiders.
Compleatly understandable.
Here's another one to add to an understandable "turn down a game with you" kind of match-up.

My Tyranid all-comers list is pretty standard fare. You've got Hive Guard, Zoanthropes, buckets of Toxic Hormagaunts, Trygons, gribbles, and finally, the terrible two Tervigons (though I'm thinking of making up a third). Though my Tyranids are still pretty good in all-around gameplay, there is one list I refuse to play against. Fatecrusher? Mech? Leaf blowers? FNP bubble baths? All well and good, but still ultimately fair, and I'll play them all the same. Heck, I'm sporting enough that I'll still field Tervigons in a Kill Points mission, considering the rather absurd advantages I get in the other two missions. But nothing is quite as dreaded for my Tyranids as the Space Wolf sink-hole list. You know the one. Four Rune Priests, all packing JotWW. Heck, even a single Jaws (usually because the other three characters are Ulrik, Ragnar, and Logan) is so absurd that I reserve the right to use a specifically tailored list against it so as not to get gutted in one turn. Considering that Tervigons (and to a lesser extent Zoanthropes) are the heart, soul, and sole Synapse providers of my list, cutting through 6 wounds, T6, a 3+ save, and a potential FNP on a simple passed Ld10 test is unacceptably game-breaking.

I won't always be refusing games against Wolves though. Even against sinkhole players. Over the past few days, I've been crafting a little surprise for these guys in the way of a Swarmlord-assisted Stealer Shock list. If I see a sink-hole list across from me, I'm busting out an entire army where every single model can only fail an initiative test on a 6. And I will continue to field this until said SW player decides to field a real army against me, rather than exploiting a cheap gimmick that should never have survived even the sloppiest playtesting.

negZero
17-06-2010, 08:03
I never refuse to play army no matter how cheese may throw in it I just laugh at it and do my best against it.

Vandelan
17-06-2010, 08:05
I had a Dark Eldar player once that didn't want to play my Black Templars because the Blessed Hull was "cheap and unfair."

I'm really glad I don't run into players like that often though.

I have to admit I have almost had players refuse to play me because I suggest that my Black Templars marines get their grenades for free considering every other Space Marine anything now come with grenades for free. I often get shady looks because I'm apparently not supposed to do that, even though GW loves being lenient on house rulings and the like. Well, that and grenades are apparently too good for free on marines if you have the option of wasting 3 points on them per marine. I can understand taking transports and vehicles for the price listed in the book, but grenades just bug me the most.

But yeah, most of the people I play are cool with it, and I honestly just play without grenades against anyone that pitches a fit.

Lothlanathorian
17-06-2010, 08:05
This Warhammer, man! What is this 'puh-lay-tasting' you speak of?


And in 3rd Ed I made an Iron Warriors list at 2000 points on the nose with 24 Lascannons, 20 of which had Tank Hunters. No one wanted to play it. I didn't do it to win or smash armies, I did it simply because I could. Posted it on here in the army list section forever ago.

Souleater
17-06-2010, 08:28
@ ReveredChaplinDrake: Two things annoy me about the Sink Wolves.

1. The old school SW players who spent ten years moaning about having to take two HQs in 1500pts but now gleefully take 3 or 4 at the same level but say it is okay because it is fluffy. :confused:

2. Killing monsters with JotWW rather than manfully facing them in Hand to Hand combat but then going on and on about how they play SWs 'for the cool background.' :rolleyes:

(Bandwagoneers and newbies with SWs I can forgive. They just don't know any better.)

OT: I don't think I'd refuse to play any legitimate army.

I do get a lot of local players bitching about my Necron taking armour saves :wtf: (they are used to my DE Warriors and Nids which get scythed down when outside cover.). But I've never seen anybody refuse to play another army.

Bloodknight
17-06-2010, 08:30
I had a Dark Eldar player once that didn't want to play my Black Templars because the Blessed Hull was "cheap and unfair.

It sort of is. It's ok vs Eldar who bring Meltas and other AP1 weaponry that can kill on a glancing hit, but if all you have is S8 AP2 lances - like DE - then the LR becomes practically indestructible. You need to inflict 6 weapon destroyed/immobilized results to kill a LR Crusader, which takes 18 Glancing hits (The Lances can't penetrate) , which takes 108 hits which takes 162 shots (!) from DE Warriors on average.
The only way to kill it in a normal DE army is through Haywire Grenades. They're restricted to Wyches and Characters, super expensive and you only get one chance to kill the tank before the troops get killed, so nobody fields them in an all-comers army.

Souleater
17-06-2010, 08:32
Indeed, Bloodknight. I mean it can take some Dark Eldar armies two whole turns to put out that many DL/Blaster shots :D

(This is a joke before anybody starts posting a list)

Bassik
17-06-2010, 08:37
Someone once refused to play against my Guard because I had too many vehicles. (Four. I had four vehicles.)

Souleater
17-06-2010, 08:40
I think I had somebody accuse my 3 MC in 1250pt Nid list of being Nidzilla.

Bloodknight
17-06-2010, 08:42
Indeed, Bloodknight. I mean it can take some Dark Eldar armies two whole turns to put out that many DL/Blaster shots

More like 6, assuming the 12" stuff can fire from turn 2, in a completely cheesed out 1750 list and nothing may die during those 6 turns :D. A standard list with about 20-25 lances takes like 9 turns to kill one. Now seeing that BT can easily take 3 of them...argh. That's why lists shouldn't be tailored. The Blessed Hull is about as useless as the Haywires in basically any normal game and I've never seen it unless people knew they'd face DE.

snottlebocket
17-06-2010, 08:45
It's a game, people play for fun. If a matchup doesn't sound fun it's a waste of time to play.

Souleater
17-06-2010, 08:58
Dark Eldar have a very dry sense of humour.

Major_Manny
17-06-2010, 09:13
I'll happily play anyone, with any list that is legal. Ive been playing with imperial guard for over 12 years, and im liking how now people kinda fear my army..but its a shame when they think 3 russes is overpowered :(

Corax
17-06-2010, 09:20
I make the decision to play someone more on the basis of the player than the army.

I don't much care what army you bring to the game, but I do care about the attitude you bring with it.

Zweischneid
17-06-2010, 09:21
I once refused to play a Guard player. He (the player!) was dressed like a Commissar, Nazi-hat, long-black coat and all.

I didn't really wanna go there. Seriously guys....

Major_Manny
17-06-2010, 09:24
yeah fair do's, if the guys is dressed like a bell end i wouldnt want people thinking im friends with him!!!

Hypaspist
17-06-2010, 09:32
I've never refused to play someone, and can only imagine that the scenarion whereby I would refuse to play someone, would involve them being a really, really (consistently) Obnoxious person


I once refused to play a Guard player. He (the player!) was dressed like a Commissar, Nazi-hat, long-black coat and all.


I definitely would have played him!
(and made it my priority to rout his men!)

:evilgrin:

Corax
17-06-2010, 09:58
I've never refused to play someone, and can only imagine that the scenarion whereby I would refuse to play someone, would involve them being a really, really (consistently) Obnoxious person

I definitely would have played him!

He might summarily execute you if you beat him, though...

mulkers
17-06-2010, 10:15
I'd still play, even if the army was this:




HQ Command 50 points, bare

Vet Squad 70 points, bare

Vet Squad, 70 points, bare

7 Demolishers @ 1155 points

1 Lemon ruski battle tank @ 155 points.

Lord Damocles
17-06-2010, 10:26
I had a Dark Eldar player once that didn't want to play my Black Templars because the Blessed Hull was "cheap and unfair."
Ha! That's not cheap and unfair.

Cheap and unfair is the Dark Eldar player pointing out that Dark Lances don't actually have the Lance rule, and your Blessed Hull is useless :shifty:

The Ginger Ninja
17-06-2010, 11:17
I get quite a bit of hate from some people saying that "Necrons are cheap and overpowered because they don't die"(WBB). by the end of the game (if its going badly :shifty:) "Phase out? what is this, phase out?" :D

EmperorEternalXIX
17-06-2010, 11:27
My Tyranid all-comers list is pretty standard fare. You've got Hive Guard, Zoanthropes, buckets of Toxic Hormagaunts, Trygons, gribbles, and finally, the terrible two Tervigons (though I'm thinking of making up a third). Though my Tyranids are still pretty good in all-around gameplay, there is one list I refuse to play against. Fatecrusher? Mech? Leaf blowers? FNP bubble baths? All well and good, but still ultimately fair, and I'll play them all the same. Heck, I'm sporting enough that I'll still field Tervigons in a Kill Points mission, considering the rather absurd advantages I get in the other two missions. But nothing is quite as dreaded for my Tyranids as the Space Wolf sink-hole list. You know the one. Four Rune Priests, all packing JotWW. Heck, even a single Jaws (usually because the other three characters are Ulrik, Ragnar, and Logan) is so absurd that I reserve the right to use a specifically tailored list against it so as not to get gutted in one turn. Considering that Tervigons (and to a lesser extent Zoanthropes) are the heart, soul, and sole Synapse providers of my list, cutting through 6 wounds, T6, a 3+ save, and a potential FNP on a simple passed Ld10 test is unacceptably game-breaking.

I won't always be refusing games against Wolves though. Even against sinkhole players. Over the past few days, I've been crafting a little surprise for these guys in the way of a Swarmlord-assisted Stealer Shock list. If I see a sink-hole list across from me, I'm busting out an entire army where every single model can only fail an initiative test on a 6. And I will continue to field this until said SW player decides to field a real army against me, rather than exploiting a cheap gimmick that should never have survived even the sloppiest playtesting. At least you will try to play it. But of course, I have to add a few points.

I didn't see you mention that you get a roll against Jaws. I also need to point out that if psychic powers are so devastating to your army you might want to invest in some Shadow in the Warp coverage.

I don't even use that power because in my experience I've found the Rune Priest to be pretty lame and un-Wolfy compared to the Lord and Wolf Priest I use, so I don't take one. But I have to assume that with how common it is, going up against a Space Wolves army with no psychic defense seems to be just plain foolish.

hawo0313
17-06-2010, 11:45
I remember my first few games an eldar guy at the store I go to has 2 units of 5 dark reapers with 2 farseers with guide and (1 has doom)... 750 pts

My space marines never stood a chance:cries:

what was annoying was that he changed his list when my friend played his orks against him. It annoys me how people will tailor thier lists rather than play and all comers.

Shab
17-06-2010, 12:56
It sort of is. It's ok vs Eldar who bring Meltas and other AP1 weaponry that can kill on a glancing hit, but if all you have is S8 AP2 lances - like DE - then the LR becomes practically indestructible. You need to inflict 6 weapon destroyed/immobilized results to kill a LR Crusader, which takes 18 Glancing hits (The Lances can't penetrate) , which takes 108 hits which takes 162 shots (!) from DE Warriors on average.
The only way to kill it in a normal DE army is through Haywire Grenades. They're restricted to Wyches and Characters, super expensive and you only get one chance to kill the tank before the troops get killed, so nobody fields them in an all-comers army.
I second that. Eldar have other tricks up their sleeve, they can deal with it just fine. Dark Eldar on the other hand, they have to sarcrifice an expensive unit for one chance to destroy the Land raider. If you are lucky enough to destroy it, that's great, but your 200-point wych squad will die to the explosion or the next round of shooting. And if you don't destroy it, congratulations, you just threw 200-odd points down the drain for nothing.
I had a game about two weeks ago, in wich the latter happened, and from that point on it became clear that winning the game was next to impossible. My opponent had an untouchable unit going around, very reliably destroying one of my units per turn, and carrying another powerfull unit inside it that I couldn't hope to touch either.
So yeah, I would say that the blessed hull upgrade is downright unfair for DE players. One attempt to destroy a blessed crusader costs the DE player a lot of points, whether he succeeds or not.

Bunnahabhain
17-06-2010, 13:06
The grey/silver/undercoat marines.

I won't play them any more. Allt he worst games I've ever had have been against them, due to really bad, inexperienced, obnoxious or unpleasant players.

They are guaranteed to be using the latest codex and net power list.

Vox-Grill
17-06-2010, 13:48
Eldar can get my blood boiling sometimes. Although I never refuse a game, the rules on D-Cannons and Wraithguard (not to mention the statline with a Farseer casting Guide and Fortune) can get me pretty mad.

Hunger
17-06-2010, 14:16
Lets face it, there are only so many times I can really be bothered to pit my fluffy Guard army against a super competitive, uninteresting, unfluffy army, only to constantly hear throughout the game how over-powered Guard are, and then listen to the patronising advice and self-congratulation of the other player who tells himself he's taken down a 'Leafblower' list.

Yeah, I decline games against these sorts of players all the time - they're easy to spot. Luckily I have a good circle of gaming buddies, so I don't play in stores very often.

PrivateLucky
17-06-2010, 14:43
I will only refuse to play some one if I know that they will have a bad attitude. For example, this tau player i played against surrendered first turn after my alpha strike with my drop pod list. I killed 3 squads and 2 tanks. It took like 30 min to set up. In my first tournament I played against him and we were both nids. He had 2 synapse in a horde army and guess what i focused! The synapse! I was new but i was not dumb, so when i killed all his synapse 2-3rd turn he surrendered again! And then proceeded to rage quit the tournament.

Now on army compesition, I actually encourage people to bring competitive lists because those are the kind of games I enjoy. I play in many tournaments and I usually dont get a chance to play against armies like nob bikers/seer council. I enjoy a challange.

Axeman1n
17-06-2010, 15:55
I refuse to play against lists with Harliquins or any Slaanesh. My normal opponent has them, and it's kind of old.

That said, I get to play so infrequently I'd probably still play.

Now, there is a lot of truth behind the idea that certain armies attract certain personalities, and some people just don't like playing against that style of player. Eldar attracts a lot of anal players. It's the "look down their nose at you" army. Maybe they just don't like to play against that.

mafty
17-06-2010, 16:02
Im suprised to see so many people fully acknowledging they refuse games..........

Why the F are you guys in warhammer if you refuse games? I would never refuse anyone, with any list......WAAC gamers, fluffy gamers, whatever it may be, I play anyone.

How do you get better by clubbing baby seals?

Shab
17-06-2010, 16:21
Im suprised to see so many people fully acknowledging they refuse games..........

Why the F are you guys in warhammer if you refuse games? I would never refuse anyone, with any list......WAAC gamers, fluffy gamers, whatever it may be, I play anyone.

How do you get better by clubbing baby seals?

What if the one asking is a person with an attitude you don't like at all, with an army/build you don't like at all either? You may be a patient and easy going guy, really hard to irritate, one who is up for any challenge, but not everyone is like that. Some people just want to play and have a good time without having to suffer waac gamers and rules lawyers. Nothing wrong with being a bit selective.

Askari
17-06-2010, 16:22
But I have to assume that with how common it is, going up against a Space Wolves army with no psychic defense seems to be just plain foolish.

How unfortunate it is that I don't have any psychic defence available to my army... (though JotWW isn't as bad when my lowest I value is 4 :) ).

Axeman1n
17-06-2010, 16:30
Psychic defense called way too many models for a simple Psychic attack to worry me? IG FTW. Though that Fear of the darkness drop pod army is a PITA.

hungry hungry hormagaunt
17-06-2010, 16:31
Well, we play for fun. If it's obvious that a game is going to be less fun to play than I'd have by just sitting and watching the next game over or doing something else entirely, of course I'll turn it down.

I'd say you have a good reason for turning down a game when:
* Your opponent is a very competitive player with an extremely tough list when you've bought a fluffy list and are looking for a friendly game. Yes, you learn from losing, but not from being steamrollered.
* Your opponent is an obviously inexperienced player with a very poor list when you're looking for a tough, competitive match. Yes, you can always play friendly, but sometimes it feels like you're babysitting the other player.
* Your opponent's list renders yours completely useless. Examples include 3 Blessed Hull landraiders against Dark Eldar, 4 JotWW Runepriests against Tervigon, Tyrannofex and Carnifex-heavy 'nid lists, Daemonhunters with Sanctuary against Daemons.
* Your opponent is a known jerk.
* Your opponent smells like Satan's own jockstrap.

Comrade Penguin
17-06-2010, 16:33
I will play anyone once, but if that player acts like an ignorant ass I feel it is completely understandable to refuse to play him again. You have the types that get angry at you and mutter things under their breath when you are winning, or the kind that quits have way through. I especially hate quitters, and if someone throws in the towel because their precious landraider blew up on turn two then I have no interest in playing them.

On a side note, when scouting for a pickup game I generally look around and see what armies people are playing. I usually ask the players that don't have marines or aren't inclined to WAAC gaming. Marines aren't bad, they just get tiresome to play against in every game and WAAC players generally aren't fun to play against. Usually if they are winning they will gloat and be overconfident, but if they are losing then they will whine, complain, and twist the rules to their favor. Even when I win against these guys it wasn't fun because they have spoiled the mood.

mafty
17-06-2010, 16:55
What if the one asking is a person with an attitude you don't like at all, with an army/build you don't like at all either? You may be a patient and easy going guy, really hard to irritate, one who is up for any challenge, but not everyone is like that. Some people just want to play and have a good time without having to suffer waac gamers and rules lawyers. Nothing wrong with being a bit selective.

Theres only 1 person at our FLGS that I wont play, but hes a known cheat, and usually uses lists that arent the points he says they are. Hes also incredibly difficult with rules and aruges you to death about them.

But thats a PERSON I wont play, not an army.....somewhat different. I get people not wanting to play my ARMY not me.....

Vandelan
17-06-2010, 17:08
It sort of is. It's ok vs Eldar who bring Meltas and other AP1 weaponry that can kill on a glancing hit, but if all you have is S8 AP2 lances - like DE - then the LR becomes practically indestructible. You need to inflict 6 weapon destroyed/immobilized results to kill a LR Crusader, which takes 18 Glancing hits (The Lances can't penetrate) , which takes 108 hits which takes 162 shots (!) from DE Warriors on average.
The only way to kill it in a normal DE army is through Haywire Grenades. They're restricted to Wyches and Characters, super expensive and you only get one chance to kill the tank before the troops get killed, so nobody fields them in an all-comers army.

I forgot to mention three things:

1. I wasn't even playing a LR, let alone a crusader.
2. Paying extra points on an already overpriced crusader is not my cup of tea.
3. I find the Blessed Hull useless because it is only useful against one if not two armies, giving it no point in building an all-comers list.

Shab
17-06-2010, 17:28
Theres only 1 person at our FLGS that I wont play,
But thats a PERSON I wont play, not an army.....somewhat different. I get people not wanting to play my ARMY not me.....

Fair enough, in your previous post you made it sound like you'd play virtually anyone.

On the subject of people not wanting to play against your army, rather than against you, how sure are you on that? Do you have a secondary army? Do the same people that refuse to play your eldar, happilly play against your other army/armies? If that's the case, I would suspect the stigma that the Eldar had as a "cheese" army in 3rd and 4rth is still alive and well in the minds of some people. Maybe you can point it out to them that Eldar aren't that hot in 5th, and don't always come on top in tournies like they used to. And regarding Tau players, I'd say they are reluctant to play an army that beats them at their own game. It's kind of embarrassing if you think about it.

mafty
17-06-2010, 17:32
Fair enough, in your previous post you made it sound like you'd play virtually anyone.

On the subject of people not wanting to play against your army, rather than against you, how sure are you on that? Do you have a secondary army? Do the same people that refuse to play your eldar, happilly play against your other army/armies? If that's the case, I would suspect the stigma that the Eldar had as a "cheese" army in 3rd and 4rth is still alive and well in the minds of some people. Maybe you can point it out to them that Eldar aren't that hot in 5th, and don't always come on top in tournies like they used to. And regarding Tau players, I'd say they are reluctant to play an army that beats them at their own game. It's kind of embarrassing if you think about it.

Because I dont frequent a local store often and I was there recently and people just didnt want to play eldar. They dont really know me, so it cant be me lol.

And I only own one army ATM.

Shab
17-06-2010, 17:40
Well, in that case, it's either the 3rd/4th eldar=cheese stigma, or maybe a local player is steamrolling everyone with his eldar and gives people the wrong impression.

Pacorko
17-06-2010, 17:50
This is why I play with buddies at a house.

As pointed out above, I only play with friends who can have fun, and take them as they deal them.

Playing people who no matter how "regular" they are at the store, are complete strangers to me doesn't appeal to me at all based on just how much of a jerk most of the regulars at my local store have become/are now--which is why I never felt the need to go there to have a game.

Then, if someone at a store is there with an army... my guess would be it's to pick games up. If they refuse a game based on army rules and not the opponent--unless said opponent is a known cheater or a really bad gaming partner... then, I really don't see them playing many opponents or many games any given week. Or a reason why are they even there.

It's outright ridiculous to refuse to play an army just because of the army, if you ask me.

Finally, is really the "smell" factor that bad in the U.K. and the U.S. of A., because I know everybody sweats and all, yet I've yet to find a store that positively stinks because one of the patrons is lax with his use of deodorant, and find it unconceivable to be so... uncaring about such things.

Sure, a mass of people will make any environment musky. Especially in a closed space, but... outright stinkers? :wtf:

How are they even allowed in a room/store? It's basic education, there's no excuse. :eyebrows:

LordManimal
17-06-2010, 18:35
Meh. I'm sick of playing against Tyranid armies personally. Since the new codex has come out, it's been the local rage here, that and blood angels, and frankly, I'm sick of playing against them. As a person who only gets to squeeze in one or two games a week, my gaming time is precious to me. Wasting my time going up against un-interesting armies isn't my idea of a good time. And no, I'm not complaining about them being unbalanced, it's just that I've "got the hang of" Tyranid lists now, and my win loss ratio is roughly 1:1.

Then again, I also refuse to play against unpainted armies. People that are at the game store begging for games instead of painting their figures get no sympathy from me. Call me elitist, but I didn't start playing the game to spend my time staring at primed or grey plastic figures. I liked the look and feel of the game as presented from some awesomely painted and well setup tables. If I had only ever seen grey plastic models, I probably wouldn't even be in the hobby. People that lazy irritate me; if you want to wargame without painting, go play Soulstorm and get out of my gamestore. lol

tuebor
17-06-2010, 19:37
I used to be rather selective about who I would play with, but I'll play with just about anyone these days. I also used to not play with people who smelled, but I found out that our local smelly guy has a glandular disorder, and even if he showers 3 times a day (he does) he still smells terrible through no fault of his own.

While most smelly game store people are probably just dirty, you never know, so I try not to make judgements.

Vaktathi
17-06-2010, 19:41
I don't even use that power because in my experience I've found the Rune Priest to be pretty lame and un-Wolfy compared to the Lord and Wolf Priest I use, so I don't take one. But I have to assume that with how common it is, going up against a Space Wolves army with no psychic defense seems to be just plain foolish.

many armies don't have any psychic defenses, IG only get it through allies, tau don't have it at all, Necrons only through Pariah's and it's not great, DE don't have it, orks don't have it, and CSM's don't have it.

Zombie Savant
17-06-2010, 20:25
I've seen this happen. I've also seen the opposite, where a foe was more than excited to come up against my Imperial Guard Assault list, expecting an easy fight.

How wrong they were! I hardly ever do worse than tie with that army, and sometimes it's because the enemy just underestimates me.

Anyway, I suppose that's not really addressing your concern. One thing that my good friend and I do is, every time we're trying a new list, or something that we haven't seen before, we will genuinely "coach" each other through each unit's capabilities.

Some people will question this, and see it as babying or coddling one another, but really, where is the fun in a game where you win by being sneaky? How do you expect an opponent to be able to react to your threats if they don't know what they are? We by no means tell each other what our strategies are, but present everything, even when not really asked.

In addition to this, we talk over every game after it happens, and sometimes every turn after it happens.

I really would encourage more people to play like this, as it lets you see where YOUR faults are, not your opponent's -- there's no one to blame when you know what everyone is capable of.

Gimp
17-06-2010, 20:54
I have never refused a game. Never.

Mainly because it is so hard to get a game i dont care even if the guy smells.

Hell with fantasy i have played against many a paper block army because well its game

badguyshaveallthefun
17-06-2010, 21:00
I myself have never refused to play a game, but I have had people refuse to play against my deathwing, simply because I have an uncanny ablility to pass 2+ saves. (I had a unit of terminators pass 17 saves in one phase from shooting without taking a single casualty once) On the flipside my assault cannons almost never rend...

adreal
17-06-2010, 22:25
I used to get my back up at eldar armie's, I'de play them, but it was annoying. I realise they need rules like defend, doom, bladestorm, twinliked S6 shots and all that, but it was annoying, especially as chaos doesn't get psychic defense, and icons die to massed shooting.

Never refused a game against them however, they just annoyed me.

My roommate is a pretty typical WAAC gamer, nothing against him as a person, but the only time I've seen him have fun in game is while winning, his lists are powerful and he gets sombre if he looses. Now if we come up against each other in a tournie I'll play, but not outside of a tournie. Though the lack of games outside a tournie hlep to make the tournie one fun.

There is another ultra serious player locally who I flat out will not play. I'm laid back (but can rules lawer if I need to), but he just wont try to make the game fun, that and his life revolves around warhammer, makes the game harder to enjoy. It's not that I can't loose, I'm cool with that (and my luck is appalling ;)). But warhammer isn't as serious too me as it is him.

Hunger
18-06-2010, 01:12
Im suprised to see so many people fully acknowledging they refuse games..........

Why the F are you guys in warhammer if you refuse games??

I'm "in warhammer" because I enjoy painting the miniatures and playing the game. When I play against someone other than my regular buddies I want them to have an interesting army, not a boring netlist, I want them to win or lose graciously, not sulk or gloat or give me patronising advice, and just enjoy the game with me.

I only get to play two games per week at most, often one, sometimes zero, so its pretty important that each one is fun and that I get the most out of every game. And when you've been playing as long as I have you can tell which players are going to moan and sulk if they lose, which ones are going to criticise you and tell you what they would have done, which ones are going to bend the rules or dispute everything you do, which ones are going to pack up early if things are not going their way and so on.

And smelly players make me feel sick too - personal hygiene costs bugger all, and being trapped in a confined space for several hours with the smell of someone else's sweaty odour is horrible. There's always one stinker, but thats all it takes, and it doesn't matter if its a hot sunny day or the middle of winter. If its you (not specifically you Mafty, but anyone else) FFS just take 2 minutes to dab a wet flannel and some soap under your armpits and spray on some deodorant before you go out. Have some sympathy for the staff in GW stores - they can't get away, and their position means they can't be so impolite as to tell you that you smell like you bathe in excrement.

Why on earth would I want to spend the only three available hours of my week playing a game against any of the people listed above? Damn right I refuse games.







How do you get better by clubbing baby seals?

Nope, I've never found seal clubbing to improve my 40K skills.

AngryAngel
18-06-2010, 02:12
I usually get many many requests to play, more in fact then I ever say yes to. As I don't bring my army every week. I play Guard, sometimes I go Mech, sometimes Infantry horde, sometimes a hybrid list. That said I usually won't refuse a player who wants a game, though sometimes I'd rather not. If they are either very abrasive, full of hot air all the time, or overly new.

Nothing to be gained by beating up a noob, and I don't like to deal with blow hards too overly much. I will however play anyone at least once.

I have as well opponents I love. Those are the ones who really just want to have fun with the game. I expect each oppoent to give their all and I don't think any one army is overly broken or cheesy.

Though I do hate Necrons so much, they are so boring. Playing as them was the only time I didn't enjoy warhammer. Playing against them is like an excercise in patience.

Garven Dreis
18-06-2010, 03:15
I tend to refuse games offers from very young kids, simply because i find they (generally) have a habit of being very sulky and/or bad sports. I find it ironic that many older gamers are just as immature as a 12 year old kid.

Gensuke626
18-06-2010, 03:37
I have a friend who refuses to play against necron armies. I think his reason is completely valid. He doesn't think they're cheesy, he just thinks that Necrons are boring to play against. He doesn't have fun when he plays against them, so he just doesn't play against them

Raven1
18-06-2010, 04:51
I have never refused a game, however I normally only play against my friends so its not a problem.

Axeman1n
18-06-2010, 05:07
"I do not avoid women Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence."

daboarder
18-06-2010, 05:21
HAHA DR Strangelove FTW!

mulkers
18-06-2010, 08:29
WAAC players are the most fun to beat, especially if done casually.

EmperorEternalXIX
18-06-2010, 08:50
I'm "in warhammer" because I enjoy painting the miniatures and playing the game. When I play against someone other than my regular buddies I want them to have an interesting army, not a boring netlist, I want them to win or lose graciously, not sulk or gloat or give me patronising advice, and just enjoy the game with me.

I only get to play two games per week at most, often one, sometimes zero, so its pretty important that each one is fun and that I get the most out of every game. And when you've been playing as long as I have you can tell which players are going to moan and sulk if they lose, which ones are going to criticise you and tell you what they would have done, which ones are going to bend the rules or dispute everything you do, which ones are going to pack up early if things are not going their way and so on.

Why on earth would I want to spend the only three available hours of my week playing a game against any of the people listed above? Damn right I refuse games. We have very similar views here. However fortunately, it sounds like I am very lucky, as almost no one of the 100+ people I've encountered who play this game does much of this stuff. I'm proud to say that at the gaming group I run, we really don't have "that guy" who no one wants to play. All of my people give great games (amazingly lucky, ain't I? heh).

PapaDoc
18-06-2010, 13:12
I refuse people not armies. Like many wise men already said in this thread.

DaSpaceAsians
18-06-2010, 13:32
I never refused a game but I do know a fantasy player who gets refused because he plays daemons and has a horrible personality. Let's just say that the dent in the wall was because of a flying rhino and there's free black dice in the basement because of someone's bad luck

Corax
18-06-2010, 14:04
People who chuck tantrums when playing 40k, lose at life.

PrivateLucky
18-06-2010, 16:48
People who chuck tantrums when playing 40k, lose at life.

as a guy named Scooter at my LGWS said

"WH40K is srs bsnss (/sarcasm off)"

Hunger
18-06-2010, 17:09
We have very similar views here. However fortunately, it sounds like I am very lucky, as almost no one of the 100+ people I've encountered who play this game does much of this stuff. I'm proud to say that at the gaming group I run, we really don't have "that guy" who no one wants to play. All of my people give great games (amazingly lucky, ain't I? heh).

You have a very fortunate situation. Luckily I also have a great gaming group of 4 others who are all respectable players. However, sometimes we can't get together, in which case I have a choice of three stores to play in, and sadly there have been many occasions on which I've run into someone who just misses the point - and I'm not trying to light the touchpaper when I say that they are always the ones who think that winning is everything.

I've been persuaded to enter a tournament in August - in such an environment, where winning actually is everything, I am fully expecting the worst - in the nightmare situation in my head every player is going to argue against everything I do, carefully watch my measurements and dispute them, roll dice behind terrain and quickly scoop them up after declaring an improbable number of hits, complain aloud every time they roll a 1, and all the the rest too...

mdauben
18-06-2010, 17:13
I will very occasionally decline to fight a specific army. The reasons for this might be that I have recently played that army a number of times, and I want something different, or maybe for some reason I have an urge to fight a specific force (maybe I brought my DH and want to play against actual Daemons, for a change). These are all isolated events, though. There is no list in the game that I would routinly refuse to play. ;)

Now, refuse to play a specific opponent? That's another issue. Luckily most of my opponents are good players and fun opponents, but there are some whinners and jerks I just won't waste my limited gaming time with. :rolleyes:

mafty
18-06-2010, 17:26
I can see refusing people, that kinda wasnt the point of this thread. I intended this to be about people refusing to play certain armies, hence the title.

People arent armies, so its easy to refuse people who you may not enjoy the game against, or whatever other reasons are listed above. I often get refused mirror matches as well lol. Altough, to be fair, mirror matches are incredibly boring, so I dont typically like them.

Melion
18-06-2010, 17:51
Once, a Tau refused to play against my Necrons for the SOLE fact that I had my Nightbringer in my list.

So your superior fire line does not matter then? Righto. :rolleyes:

Askari
18-06-2010, 19:57
I've been persuaded to enter a tournament in August - in such an environment, where winning actually is everything, I am fully expecting the worst - in the nightmare situation in my head every player is going to argue against everything I do, carefully watch my measurements and dispute them, roll dice behind terrain and quickly scoop them up after declaring an improbable number of hits, complain aloud every time they roll a 1, and all the the rest too...

Having been in a tournament recently it really isn't that bad, sure winning is everything but sometimes it's nice to get your competitive side going. Mind you, I'm not sure how serious a tournament it was when myself and one of my friends were drawn to battle each other, both of us were quite tipsy from all the pints we had after each previous games. :D

Abbo
18-06-2010, 20:00
Hehe i have someone who pretty much refuses to face my IG in apoc.

Even though we have hilarious 1500 pts games

otakuzoku
18-06-2010, 20:31
i only play one army and that's TAU, i dislike playing against space marines because every body plays them. i enjoy ork, and eldar. playing against other tau is fun i wanna play against nids. and guard

Raditz
18-06-2010, 23:10
I don't refuse games, because I flat out don't care what you're playing. I do however avoid being in an area at the same time guard players, so they can't challenge me. :D

The only time I ever refuse a game is when I'm painting (and with a barely painted army, you want me painting.) or when they're kiddies. I just don't have an "easy" button when it comes to other marine players, especially when it comes to killing their "uber" marine units, no matter their age, newbiness, etc.

Pacorko
18-06-2010, 23:31
Meh. I'm sick of... =snip=... lol

You sound exactly as the kind of guys I don't like to play or be around, and much like a handful of the guys in Mexico I just can't stand.

A game's a game, if the other guy just has enough time to glue his figures tu put on a game that promises some challenges and potential fun, I've no problem. If your win:lose ratio is on the par, then I say there's a challenge te be had every time because you don't always loose and can't always win. You are playing against a human opponent who is playing a given set of rules to the best of his ability. Therein lies the beauty of any wargame, me thinks.

As for painted armies only: if the opponent is the kind of guy that doesn't paint his armies because he's likely to sell them when he's lost interest in them, then that's his prerrogative. As long as he puts up a fun game, I really have no problem with "dull armies".

If anyone is going to be so discriminating about painted armies, that someone better have a really good loking ones to have a shred of justification to pull this argument outta his sleeve.

Yep, there was another one of those guys around here... thing is, the poor sap painted horribly and any army of his was a veritable nightmare to look at given his chosen schemes and his mutilating brush-strokes.

Again, choosing not to play a person I can understand. Doing the same with any army for whatever the reason, is really beyond my ken to even try and justify.

I mean, I hate the outright and ignorant zealotry inherent to the Inquisition and the Black Templars, but I've yet to say no to a beardy gamers I know when he want to have a go at 2.5k point with his Witchhunters or with BTs so beardy they put the older Space Wolves brothers to shame.

Still, to each his own.

carldooley
19-06-2010, 00:35
I tend to refuse games offers from very young kids, simply because i find they (generally) have a habit of being very sulky and/or bad sports. I find it ironic that many older gamers are just as immature as a 12 year old kid.

ironically, one of the better players at my FLGS isn't in his teens yet. I only had to correct him once, and he accepted the correction magnanimously.

as to the OP, I will only refuse a game to a horde list. Sorry, but most of my games I'm playing against a time limit, and after my turn is over inside of 5 minutes (I try to limit myself to 45-50 model armies) it is annoying that my opponent meticulously moves each individual model in his greentide\hormagaunt\infantry guard army.

Free Spirit
19-06-2010, 00:38
I never 'don't' play against certain armies.... certain players however....

Aliarzathanil
19-06-2010, 02:21
I typically decline games against mech guard lists (they're just dull an not alot of fun) or people that tailor there list to beat mine. I will always play against a new player as it allows me to run some fun, but uncompetive lists and hopefully make for a good first few games for them.

Tamwulf
19-06-2010, 02:58
For me, it's about having fun. If I see you rockin' your 12 Vendetta Leaf Blower list, how much fun will that be for me?

Conversely, when I show up to play a spontaneous game at the local shop, I don't bring my 'ard Boys list of 4 Rune Priests on Thunderwolves, two full units of Thunderwolves, and Logan Grimnar with a unit of Longfangs all sporting Lascannons.

As far as the painted vs. unpainted argument: If I said painted armies only, I'd never get a game in, except against maybe 1-2 people once a month. I do insist on fully assembled, and while I'm generous when it comes to WYSIWYG, I don't allow proxies.

williamhm
19-06-2010, 05:06
I generally don't like playing against space wolves at all, never have. To me they've always been cheesy, and now with thunder wolf cavalry and jaws of the wolf I see no reason to play them. I just would not have fun playing them at all.

Solid_Smurf
19-06-2010, 06:52
I have two reasons for not taking up a game.

1) The opponents list was written to crush my particular army. aka: List Tooling
2) The opponent is to young to grasp the rule set and suffers from extreme ADHD

But, I would never refuse to play a particular army. Yes, I prefer to play against some armies over others. But its with the more competitive armies that push mine to its limits.

Thud
19-06-2010, 19:10
I won't refuse to play a certain army but I'd prefer to avoid Tyranids and Deathwing. Why? Because my play against the most plays them and when I have the chance I'd prefer to play against something else.

Project2501
19-06-2010, 21:29
Ever goto your FLGS and its evident people arent playing/in between games. So you ask around for anyone interested in getting one started. They ask what you play and you tell them, only to see them go "oh......" and all of a sudden they dont want to play you anymore.

Now I dont play an OP army (far from it), but it seems like lots of people have this weird misconcepted fear of my armies codex (Eldar fyi.....yea I know).


Anyone else get this from time to time? (BTW, I get this a lot from tau players, outside of tournements Tau players almost refuse to play me).


I have not experienced this personally (with SM/DH/CSM/guard). Sounds to me like you've just hit upon lousy players/sore losers. Good players (IMO) are happy to pit their army/skill against anyone.


I would chalk it up to them doing you a favor, because if you had won, they'd have **** and moaned about this that and the other for forever over how/why the 'really' lost.

Redscare
19-06-2010, 22:07
You see this all the time. A guy loses a Carnifex to Jaws of the World Wolf, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down.



Ok I am curious now. How exactly do you prepare for JotWW?

I know many tyranid players, many of them my friends, who think that this power is complete ************, and I tend to agree with them. You have a psychic power that goes off 92% of the time that has the potential to kill multiple MCs. Out of the 8 MC choices in the Tyranid book, half of them can be instantly killed 83% of the time. The other half, each also costing around 200 pts, 33% of the time.

Their only defense?

Hope you fail your Ld10 test.
Hope to pass a I1 test.
Try to get a expensive model with Shadow within 12" of your priest without dying. Sometime that is hard to do considering JotWW has a far longer range.

If I sound bitter about this its because I know a lot of people just like you. Allow me to demonstrate something I have seen on more than one occasion.

"You see this all the time. A guy loses his entire Necron army to nob bikers, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down."

Yep, it's not my problem; it's his problem because he wasn't prepared for it! Because we all know how easy it is to prepare for such things right?

/rant

Project2501
19-06-2010, 22:24
Ok I am curious now. How exactly do you prepare for JotWW?

I know many tyranid players, many of them my friends, who think that this power is complete ************, and I tend to agree with them. You have a psychic power that goes off 92% of the time that has the potential to kill multiple MCs. Out of the 8 MC choices in the Tyranid book, half of them can be instantly killed 83% of the time. The other half, each also costing around 200 pts, 33% of the time.

Their only defense?

Hope you fail your Ld10 test.
Hope to pass a I1 test.
Try to get a expensive model with Shadow within 12" of your priest without dying. Sometime that is hard to do considering JotWW has a far longer range.

If I sound bitter about this its because I know a lot of people just like you. Allow me to demonstrate something I have seen on more than one occasion.

"You see this all the time. A guy loses his entire Necron army to nob bikers, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down."

Yep, it's not my problem; it's his problem because he wasn't prepared for it! Because we all know how easy it is to prepare for such things right?

/rant


Wow, um, I believe the terms are 'balanced list' or 'take all comers list'. What those entail is creating an army/list that has more than one way to accomplish any given task.

Not trying to be mean, but that's how I prepare for these scenarios at least.

Panzerkanzler
19-06-2010, 22:25
It's a game, people play for fun. If a matchup doesn't sound fun it's a waste of time to play.

I fully agree with this. And if people get offended when I say no I tell them to...I don't want more angry mod points so I'll leave the last part of the sentence to your imagination.

orcsorks
20-06-2010, 03:58
I've only refused a game once and that was because the guy I drove to the store broke his ankle on the way to get his Dwarfs out of my car and I had to take him to the emergency room. lol.

By and large I'll play anyone, even if I get my face stomped, I don't mind because I have fun with it. I play Orks and Orcs & Goblins (go figure), so I have some pretty hilarious units.

I've had people refuse to play me, but that was after I had just beaten the store rules lawyer (playing DE) with a 1500 pt two Weirdboy list. He refused to play because he said he couldn't keep from laughing and wanted me to go out with a win (my last night in that town before moving).

Anyway, I understand why some people might. For me, playing two armies that are just full of random craziness, I treat the whole game as a good time, but I think people reserve the right to what they want.

Cheers y bon nuit y'all

Vaktathi
20-06-2010, 04:03
Wow, um, I believe the terms are 'balanced list' or 'take all comers list'. What those entail is creating an army/list that has more than one way to accomplish any given task.

Not trying to be mean, but that's how I prepare for these scenarios at least.

Hate to say it, but some armies, primarily older ones, really can't prepare for everything, and Psychic defense especially is not something widely available, and even for those that have it it is not always easy to utilize (e.g. Tyranids need a Synapse creature very close to a Psyker). Very few armies actually can make a decent all comers list that has a chance of dealing with some of the more potent things in this game, Nob Bikers in particular are hard to counter as they require intense amounts of S8 firepower, that much S8 usually comes at an intense cost to other capabilities.

Crovax20
20-06-2010, 10:58
In 40k I can't really think of an army I wouldn't want to play against. The one I was dreading was space wolves, but I had a game against them last friday and it turned out it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I actually quite liked the game as I tactically outplayed my opponent, by putting up a feign on the right flank and then withdrawing to reinforce my centre, while having my rhino block off the left flank approach.

In Fantasy I DO try and avoid games against all fear causing immune to psychology armies. I just don't enjoy it, especially when I am turning up with an all gobbo list. Thankfully it seems 8th edition will fix my issue's with fear causers and I will gladly play them.

Thud
20-06-2010, 12:08
Ok I am curious now. How exactly do you prepare for JotWW?

1. Stop sucking at 40k.
2. Actually learn the rules for Jaws.

:)


I know many tyranid players, many of them my friends, who think that this power is complete ************, and I tend to agree with them. You have a psychic power that goes off 92% of the time that has the potential to kill multiple MCs. Out of the 8 MC choices in the Tyranid book, half of them can be instantly killed 83% of the time. The other half, each also costing around 200 pts, 33% of the time.

What has happened here is either:
1. Your local SW player has been less than honest with you.
2. You haven't actually played against SW and are getting carried away in the sweeping internet whine-aton.
3. You do know the Jaws rules, but you're just bad with percentages.


Their only defense?

Hope you fail your Ld10 test.
Hope to pass a I1 test.
Try to get a expensive model with Shadow within 12" of your priest without dying. Sometime that is hard to do considering JotWW has a far longer range.

If I sound bitter about this its because I know a lot of people just like you. Allow me to demonstrate something I have seen on more than one occasion.

"You see this all the time. A guy loses his entire Necron army to nob bikers, and goes "Wow that power is bull ****." The reality is, he was completely unprepared to see it, and it caught him with his pants down."

Yep, it's not my problem; it's his problem because he wasn't prepared for it! Because we all know how easy it is to prepare for such things right?

/rant

You need to chill out, find a Nid player who seems to be winning a lot but you don't understand how, and ask him/her what the secret is. You might learn something and the next time you play against that guy with 4x Jaws, you'll get the satisfaction of tabling him. Or, you could just carry on whining on the internet until you've played this things so much up in your mind that you are unable to even think straight when they're on the other side of the table.

banik
20-06-2010, 17:01
The types that decline to play based on what army someone plays are some of the sorriest examples of 'humanity' that you'll find.

That said, declining to play based on play-style, odor, or attitude is A-OK.

Redscare
20-06-2010, 20:10
1. Stop sucking at 40k.
2. Actually learn the rules for Jaws.

:)



What has happened here is either:
1. Your local SW player has been less than honest with you.
2. You haven't actually played against SW and are getting carried away in the sweeping internet whine-aton.
3. You do know the Jaws rules, but you're just bad with percentages.



You need to chill out, find a Nid player who seems to be winning a lot but you don't understand how, and ask him/her what the secret is. You might learn something and the next time you play against that guy with 4x Jaws, you'll get the satisfaction of tabling him. Or, you could just carry on whining on the internet until you've played this things so much up in your mind that you are unable to even think straight when they're on the other side of the table.

1. I don't play Tyranids.

2. You have not said anything about countering Jaws, even though you claim it is as harmless as a piece of silly string.

3. Search up the definition of "whining" because it seems like you don't know what it is.

Oguleth
20-06-2010, 22:35
I like to play everyone once, to get an impression.

Later on, I freely admit I dodge playing someone. Can be players (cheating, endless arguments, all manner of things), can be armies (the matchup would be boring for example, one taking something soft vs some well crafted hard lists) or because I played against Marines the last 15 times, and they all had more or less the same things.

That being said, I haven't refused to play anyone for a long while now.. Though I might just explode if I see more Lash Princes.

Bunnahabhain
20-06-2010, 23:16
1. I don't play Tyranids.

2. You have not said anything about countering Jaws, even though you claim it is as harmless as a piece of silly string.

3. Search up the definition of "whining" because it seems like you don't know what it is.

Jaws is rough against high value, low I targets, no doubt about it.

However, it's not nearly as bad as you made it out to be, if you follow the actual rules for it. For example, it's actually 50% less dangerous to carnifex genus things than you said.

Free Spirit
20-06-2010, 23:23
I've only refused a game once and that was because the guy I drove to the store broke his ankle on the way to get his Dwarfs out of my car and I had to take him to the emergency room. lol.


thank you, i was enjoying a great scotch and i almost doused my computer screen with it. Not that i like that your friend got hurt, but for some reason i pictured this in my head and it really got me laughing. I hope he did okay after that ;)

Back on jaws, yeah it's really powerful. I use 1 runepriest and his killtally is pretty impressive (greater daemon, carnifexes and yes... even Eldrad when i was in a pinch). But as much as you plan for it, it's really hard to avoid and to say someone sucks at 40K is crap. You can be the best player but when you play orks against my puppywing, you can bet your behind that i will target those powerclaws/nobz/warbosses/whatever that can really hurt me. With so many models on the table i'm bound to find some juicy jaws targets. The biggest trick is keeping your units out of LOS. Even though the power travels through cover, the model has to be able to draw LOS to the first guy (see the FAQ). That's your way out, but it's not easy... because the SW player (hopefully) knows this too and true LOS is still true LOS wich makes things like this even harder to avoid.

TheSanityAssassin
21-06-2010, 00:56
I had a Dark Eldar player once that didn't want to play my Black Templars because the Blessed Hull was "cheap and unfair."





This is the one refused game I have countenanced. The guy had purposely brought 3 Blessed Hull Crusaders and challenged a Dark Eldar player, and had chosen the extra strength vow "because I'll strike last anyways" Needless to say the guy told him to bugger off and that he would play him when he didn't have a perfectly tailored list.

As for IA stuff, I don't refuse lists but I really hate when people say "they're part of the Core rules so I'm going to use them". I don't mind playing against that stuff when it's clearly stated before hand, but nothing angers me more than "by the way this is an Imperial Armour Apocalypse drop pod so my dreadnoughts are assaulting you first turn and you lose infantry guard player". I know a lot of it isn't at all that bad (repressors are used around here to no complaint), but it really frustrates me to have something game breaking pulled out when I have no idea it even exists. I can't afford the 500 bucks to buy all those books "just in case"

lubi125
21-06-2010, 03:08
Once in a GW store, there was a guy (probably my age), who came up and asked me which army I play, well I said Imperial guard.

Then his facial expression changed and he ''huh!'' me (maybe you don't get that)
and he walks away.

Ok maybe some people think that the guard may be OP, but look I HAVE played 4th edition IG, it's like they think that I started to play Imperial guard in the 5th because they are somehow overpowered (I believe squadron balances out, the fact that we can get more tanks that anybody) :D
:(

Also my ''buddies'' use to laugh at the guard by calling them ''imperial sh@#s''
That kind of made me angry at the time, hahahahaha.

Thud
21-06-2010, 12:19
1. I don't play Tyranids.

2. You have not said anything about countering Jaws, even though you claim it is as harmless as a piece of silly string.

3. Search up the definition of "whining" because it seems like you don't know what it is.

1. Alright then. But you do realize that I don't know you personally, or anything about you, right? So when you go off on a "the end is nigh" rant about Jaws against Nids, well, then I'm just going to assume you're one of those Nid guys.

2. First off, I have not claimed it is as harmless as a piece of silly string. Although, I'm sure a piece of silly string plus a well painted army could only end up having nightmare-inducing consequences. It is, however, far less "OMFG OP OP!!1" than what people seem to think. Against mech armies it is pretty much useless, and if you're a Nid player there's always the option of not lining up a bunch of Carnifexes so they can all be taken out at once. Also, getting a Hive Tyrant within 12" of that Rune Priest might not be a bad idea. Or how about putting all those Gants to use? If the Rune Priest can't get to within 24" of a I1 TMC, he can't hurt it.

3. Complaining in an undignified way, you mean? At least that's what the Oxford English Dictionary means, and that's good enough for me.

daboarder
21-06-2010, 12:31
The thing I dislike intensely about jaws is that there was no need to return to the old "kills instantly" crap. EW and Instant death were made spcific rules for a purpose and the designer did a reall poor job thinking that through, I'm just glad that the other designers have grasped this and we didn't see it perpetuated throughout the nid and BA dex's.

The Marshel
21-06-2010, 14:08
You know the one. Four Rune Priests, all packing JotWW.

i dont mean to drag up a comment from the first page but am i missing something here? doesnt the same rule that allows u to take 4 hq choices also state that "no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic power or wargear combination"?

so how are people taking 4 rune priest with all with JotWW?

daboarder
21-06-2010, 14:45
there is an apparent ambiguity in the wording that supposedly allows you to take the same individual power, just so long as the second power is different ei: the combinations of the 2 powers cant be the same. This may have been supported by the SW faq.

The Marshel
21-06-2010, 14:52
i cant find anything within the sw faq to support that definition. it seems pretty easter eggish too me

daboarder
21-06-2010, 14:53
I just checked its on pg:5 in the top right of the page and it quite clearly clarifies that yes they are able to.

The Marshel
21-06-2010, 15:01
ah, i see.

thanks, although its legal, i still think thats a bit cheap

Zingbaby
21-06-2010, 15:11
Here is the thing guys; (from the mouth of the game designers) the game is designed to be 'fun' first. It is intended to be played in a "Friendly" way. For that reason you can always "break" the game if that is your goal - and you can do it with nearly every codex.


...the game system needed to catch up with the hobbyists, so to speak. But to make this work we assume gamers will play in a friendly way. This game requires you to play with a gracious, cooperative spirit. You have to make the game work for you, your opponent and the story you're creating. It is a move away from the ultra-competitive style that has become more prevalent in 40K over the recent years.

I can understand not wanting to play against certain people or certain builds even - but not playing against certain armies doesn't really make much sense to me. Nearly ALL of them can be broken.

daboarder
21-06-2010, 15:14
hey zingbaby, I just read that quote and thought bout posting it on bols and then I read the poster name hahaha what a coinsedence.

edit: oh I agree with you again buy the way.

Zingbaby
21-06-2010, 15:15
Oh wow - just noticed your name lol...

Simo429
21-06-2010, 16:11
In fairness I will do this

However I think I have justifiable reasons

I play at least a few games a week but once a week I always play against a close friend and he only plays guard so in the other games I have I will say to a guard player sorry but Im going to look for someone else purely because I play them every week and there are some armies I never get to play so I keep an eye out for them

If that upsets someone I can understand it but I play at Warhammer world so it isn't like there aren't always plenty of armies kicking about anyway

Zingbaby
21-06-2010, 16:38
I can see that... though at the same time every general and (usually) every list is different.

Of course when folks just cut-and-paste a 'leaf blower' type list then it's gets tiring.

oCoYoRoAoKo
21-06-2010, 17:22
only time i will refuse to play a game is if im just not in the mood to.

As for Jaws, I recently played a double jaws army at a GT with my nurgle Daemon list. You have never seen so nimble a greater daemon in your life...

Cy.

Zeroth
21-06-2010, 19:51
There's no hiding that Tyranids is probably the army which is weakest against Jaws, if you bring 4 of them in a rhino or razorback. You're gonna give the 'Nid player a headache.

If you come out on top being the Tyranid player, it's probably more because the Space Wolf player don't know what he is doing.

Sunfang
21-06-2010, 20:36
I wont refuse to play someone based on their army, beardy composition or not.

I will however refuse to play people. Some people just suck as people and if thats how they feel about me by all rights refuse to play me too.

I also try to stear away from kids who's parents use GW as a day care. I find they are just to hyper active to finish a game.

Aedes
21-06-2010, 21:12
I play everyone-- anytime, well, except the afore mentioned hyperactive kids.
Otherwise, I am fine with everything--
I love the game and have fun with it, winning is secondary.
And maybe I even learn a thing or two when being introduced to a power army.

puppetmaster24
21-06-2010, 21:16
i don't play necrons with my necrons.

i have done it once and the dice rolls were EXCLUSIVLY 3+ 4+ 2+.

and it was boring and took forever.

triplare
22-06-2010, 00:04
I'll play against any army, but lately the 'fully mech-static backfield-shooty only' armies have really been irking for numerous reasons.

williamhm
22-06-2010, 03:02
Here is the thing guys; (from the mouth of the game designers) the game is designed to be 'fun' first. It is intended to be played in a "Friendly" way. For that reason you can always "break" the game if that is your goal - and you can do it with nearly every codex.



I can understand not wanting to play against certain people or certain builds even - but not playing against certain armies doesn't really make much sense to me. Nearly ALL of them can be broken.

I just dont like the whole Vikings in space thing, I just can't get passed that that's why I don't like playing SW I know it's a personal problem but everytime I see them I want to shake my head in disgust or laugh. I just really dislike the concept that much.

carldooley
22-06-2010, 03:10
Jaws is hard to deal with? just insist that the rune priest has to test also, as he is also 'touching' the line (assuming he isn't wearing a jump pack or in a transport)

To OP, I just hate high model count armies, when the movement phase of a turn takes 15 minutes. If they are willing to make allowances - drop the model count or have movement sheets set up, I'd be more amenable to a game

Free Spirit
22-06-2010, 13:15
Jaws is hard to deal with? just insist that the rune priest has to test also, as he is also 'touching' the line (assuming he isn't wearing a jump pack or in a transport)

To OP, I just hate high model count armies, when the movement phase of a turn takes 15 minutes. If they are willing to make allowances - drop the model count or have movement sheets set up, I'd be more amenable to a game

Nice about the runepriest, but we could argue about that all day ;)

I don't mind big armies, it's pretty impressive if the person your playing actually painted everything. That's a sight to behold!! Actually... i use the high model count armies to my advantage. With a 23 model count (and 2 dreadnoughts) 1700 points army i usually take about 10 minutes a turn, because i have all the time in the world to think about what i'm going to do in my opponents turn. My opponent doesn't have that luxury and even though he can stretch the time a bit, usually they end up making some mistakes because of pressure. It's also part of the tactics. Then again, one of my best friends takes about 20 minutes in his turn to think about what he's going to do, so it doesn't always work. :D

Pylar
22-06-2010, 18:39
We are in the middle of an escalation league at my FLGS. I've played the same SW Marine army at 500 and 1k points. And I refuse to play him again. He knows that I have a problem dealing with SW tactics, so he keeps challenging me just so he can get a win. And since he is never there except for league games I never get a chance to practice tactics against them. He runs a Wolf Lord that runs with a pack of 10 wolves, and 2 long fang units with only missiles. It's not a fun list. He gets challeneged by a IG player with a couple of Manticores and he flat out refuses to play the guy..cause he might loose. I'm not the type to normally turn down a game but you can be sure I won't play his cheesy Team Jacob list anymore!

Redscare
22-06-2010, 19:54
Jaws is rough against high value, low I targets, no doubt about it.

However, it's not nearly as bad as you made it out to be, if you follow the actual rules for it. For example, it's actually 50% less dangerous to carnifex genus things than you said.

My mistake- I forgot about the MC special rule. Still, that only brings it down to 66% chance of dying on a very expensive model.

@Thud

Most of the things you say could work are hardly ever options to a tyranid player. Bringing a Tyrant within 12" of a SW priest just for the sake of nullifying Jaws? That thing usually has a price tag of like 2 SW heros, and that's saying quite a lot, and with 4 wounds and no ++ saves.

Not lining up the carnifexes might also be a bit tough since if anyone wishes to take more than one, they're going to either have to squadron them, or have them each take a heavy slot. And I hope you know about basic geometry and drawing a line that goes between 2 points right? Hitting multiple MCs is not as hard as you make it out to be, especially in his personal rhino taxi.

Simply put, this psychic power is hugely imbalanced against Tyranids. I'm sure there is a ton of nid players who don't lose to this as the sole reason, but try finding some that think Jaws is anything close to being balanced.

EmperorEternalXIX
22-06-2010, 20:15
We are in the middle of an escalation league at my FLGS. I've played the same SW Marine army at 500 and 1k points. And I refuse to play him again. He knows that I have a problem dealing with SW tactics, so he keeps challenging me just so he can get a win. And since he is never there except for league games I never get a chance to practice tactics against them. He runs a Wolf Lord that runs with a pack of 10 wolves, and 2 long fang units with only missiles. It's not a fun list. He gets challeneged by a IG player with a couple of Manticores and he flat out refuses to play the guy..cause he might loose. I'm not the type to normally turn down a game but you can be sure I won't play his cheesy Team Jacob list anymore!That list isn't legal. Don't you need two troops choices?


Most of the things you say could work are hardly ever options to a tyranid player. Bringing a Tyrant within 12" of a SW priest just for the sake of nullifying Jaws? That thing usually has a price tag of like 2 SW heros, and that's saying quite a lot, and with 4 wounds and no ++ saves.

Not lining up the carnifexes might also be a bit tough since if anyone wishes to take more than one, they're going to either have to squadron them, or have them each take a heavy slot. And I hope you know about basic geometry and drawing a line that goes between 2 points right? Hitting multiple MCs is not as hard as you make it out to be, especially in his personal rhino taxi.

Simply put, this psychic power is hugely imbalanced against Tyranids. I'm sure there is a ton of nid players who don't lose to this as the sole reason, but try finding some that think Jaws is anything close to being balanced.

Ones who don't use Carnifex lists probably don't have a problem with it. Jaws is trash against things that aren't I1.

As do people who use the Trygon Prime. Shadows in the Warp really messes up the Rune Priest.

The Rune Priest is also very easy to kill, and it amazes me how many people just let him sit 23" and do his thing when his only protection is a Rhino and 9 models.

If I were you guys I would thank god there was a Rune Priest. It means there are likely to be 9 Grey Hunters not rampaging into your front lines and killing everything, hehe.

IllidanStormrage
22-06-2010, 20:32
I play tau and whenever my friend uses space wolves i know im screwed he just deep strike me, and owns my fire warriors, kills my hammerhead, and well i still dont refuse even though i know ill never win.

Vaktathi
22-06-2010, 20:48
As do people who use the Trygon Prime. Shadows in the Warp really messes up the Rune Priest. Isn't Jaws twice the range of SitW though? If the RP is in a rhino it can still move 6" a turn and fire that off through the firing port can't it? Giving it an effective range of 30".




The Rune Priest is also very easy to kill, and it amazes me how many people just let him sit 23" and do his thing when his only protection is a Rhino and 9 models. 9 ablative wounds and an AV11 vehicle is pretty solid protection I would think.

The efficiency with which Jaws can deal with MC's and snipe models in units is remarkable. JotWW will kill a a carnifex/tervigon/tryannofex at 24" about 61% of the time, which is more effective than a BS4 lascannon against a single Grot. That's a bit silly.

EDIT: lol 7000.

TheSanityAssassin
23-06-2010, 06:15
To go off topic for just a second, I find it interesting to go back to the 5th ed designer comments regarding ultra-competitive play. Now, I was MUCH more competitive back in 4th, and have mellowed extremely in this edition, but if anything I've found that the WAAC level, and general beardyness and hyper-comp army lists have increased drastically in 5th. Anyone else feel that way?

Anyways, to add another story about refusing games, I have only once walked away from a game, and that was against an infantry guard player who insisted on very carefully moving each and every one of his 150 infantry models 2" left every turn, specifically in an attempt to slow the game down and win. The organizers didn't do anything about it, and he just mocked me, suggesting he could do whatever he wanted with his movement phase. The game ended on the top of turn 3, with him winning a minor victory for having destroyed a single Land Raider, and my assault force 3" from his lines, but out of time to resolve close combat.

Very shortly after that I took over as tournament coordinator for the region, and he was not allowed to return and play following a number of similar complaints from other players. Luckily he was about 15 so I was able to restrain myself from decking him.

Col. Dash
23-06-2010, 12:53
Hmm I wont turn down armies but will turn down specific people I dont like playing(the DB term comes into use here) if i can(unfortunately every tourney i somehow end up playing him). I have seen people not play because of specific combos in the army. For example, I know one player who thinks the Mystic + guard combo is so overpowering he has several blogs bitching about it and how cheesy it is to his Blood Angels, I dont think he plays pick up games to turn them down.

Thud
23-06-2010, 14:00
@Thud

Most of the things you say could work are hardly ever options to a tyranid player. Bringing a Tyrant within 12" of a SW priest just for the sake of nullifying Jaws? That thing usually has a price tag of like 2 SW heros, and that's saying quite a lot, and with 4 wounds and no ++ saves.

Not lining up the carnifexes might also be a bit tough since if anyone wishes to take more than one, they're going to either have to squadron them, or have them each take a heavy slot. And I hope you know about basic geometry and drawing a line that goes between 2 points right? Hitting multiple MCs is not as hard as you make it out to be, especially in his personal rhino taxi.

Simply put, this psychic power is hugely imbalanced against Tyranids. I'm sure there is a ton of nid players who don't lose to this as the sole reason, but try finding some that think Jaws is anything close to being balanced.

Ok, fine, you win. Jaws is horribly overpowered and for a Nid player to beat a Jaws list he'll have to be some sort of tactical genius.

So I'll just go back to being that tactical genius, and you go back to getting tabled by overhyped one-trick-ponies. Have fun.

The SkaerKrow
23-06-2010, 14:18
I know of some players that I won't take the table against, but no armies that I exclude. There are a couple of forces that I accept that I won't beat, but I'll still game against them if I like the person playing them.

EmperorEternalXIX
26-06-2010, 02:06
Ok, fine, you win. Jaws is horribly overpowered and for a Nid player to beat a Jaws list he'll have to be some sort of tactical genius.

So I'll just go back to being that tactical genius, and you go back to getting tabled by overhyped one-trick-ponies. Have fun.This deserves a round of applause.

People love to talk about JotWW as if two things are always true:
1.) There is apparently no psychic defense anywhere in the game, ever
2.) They talk about how good it is against the handful of low I things in the game and never seem to talk about how ehhh it is against everything else.

Though I agree it is a bit too powerful, it is also not nearly the unbeatable torrent of victory that it is made out to be (especially since it doesn't even work on vehicles, which 90% of the game is).