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WolfVonhinslik
17-06-2010, 07:29
forgive me if this is in the wrong area or anything, i just wanted to know everyones take on this, i just need to vent my opiion, even tho i know it wont change anything but...

looking over the rumers (i hope some of them are not real), but after a game today with my brother and a friend (a 3 way game, was a blast)

i realise that slaanesh daemonettes will wind up being broken, they already have a fast movement of 6 already +2D6 that a max of 18" charge, with I5 and ASF with 2A each not counting the 2nd rank getting to attack, they will get to go first VS most things and re rolling per ASF and higher I, now taking this as a reference look at the keeper of secrets, slaaneshwill go from one of the worst to possibly the best

maybe its because i despise Daemons already, but hey, im a Dark Elf player, i hate everyone :P

am i the only one thats afraid yet slightly exited about 8th, reading the rumers, i like some of them, like the generating of powerdice and dispell dice, meening i can take 3 lvl 1 sorceresses without fear of, "crap i get no power dice" plus being able to pick my spells

some things scare me, like there taking the guesswork (and im my opinion, the skill) out of the game, measuring everything in advance and random charge range, thats just leaving the game to luck instead of skill.

attacking in I order, even tho im an elf and probably benefit from this more then most, i dislike it, this on a realistic stand point, you charge a unit of spearman, that initial clash the spearman are too busy defending (tho realistically charging hopalite spearman you should tale D3 impact hits,...your charging a wall of spears)you should totally get the 1st attack if you charged and the opponent holds, if they are going to do that, give a different option for charge reaction, flee, stand and shoot, hold (charger takes D3 impact hits if defender has shields, but charger goes 1st), and counter charge (the combat will be in I order, but forgoe shields),something like that.

apparently there is some kindof scroll that can turn a wizard into a frog, poof, your 400 pt wizard lord was rendered crap for 50 pts, if thats a permanent thing and i cant do anything to stop it, then apparently note to self, never use a wizard.

what the hell is wrong with GW and skirmishers, unless im missing something, WTF is the point in screwing them like that, whats wrong with them like they are? i really dont see the point of putting them in glorified ranks

some things i like tho, like picking spells (your gonna bring the right wizard for the battle thats knows the spells you need), magic/dispel dice generation, irrisitable/miscast combined, savo fire, 2nd rank getting to attack, adding your lvl to cast/dispel to name a few

it just feels like GW is turning FB into 40K, i play both (patiently waiting for the Dark Eldar update), and my group just started FB a few months ago, granted unless GW completely screws everything up we will play 8th. the games where completely different tactics involved

it just seems like they are taking out the Skill involved and the tactics and replacing it with luck.

maybe its just me tho, one thing my group is thinking about doing is playing 7th/8th hybrid

Milgram
17-06-2010, 07:47
yeah, people playing with self made rules based upon rumours are definitelly some skillfull players. *sigh* I'd just say that they do not take away anything from you.

aaaaaaand... this is general discussion.

Kaleth
17-06-2010, 07:49
Dont worry abt the frog scroll enemy has to roll above his level on a d6 to get turned and then every turn he gets back to normal on a 4+ oh and the scroll is instead of dispelling so the spell is casted

/Agree on the rest :) a swift from tactic and exp guess of ranges to auto...

Worse 8th ed rule imo is you can measure everything anytime....

staks
17-06-2010, 07:53
Since when did Daemonettes get ASF?

Darnok
17-06-2010, 07:55
Thread moved. THis is general discussion, not N&R.


Darnok [=I=]

Lathrael
17-06-2010, 08:03
Actually deamonettes are real crappy with new rules(rumors- asf is not the thing that it was before). New rumors seems mostly about having deathstars and shiny stuff to counter them, like not having much benefit from a second wizard (ofc additional lore is really powerful but no extra dices, channeling is a joke), but a scroll that can disable your only wizard, ect.

Still none of them are facts yet.

"Worse 8th ed rule imo is you can measure everything anytime.... "

I think that only applies to distance with your allied units, from what i understand at rumor round-up.

It was supposed to be at general discussion

WolfVonhinslik
17-06-2010, 08:12
yeah, people playing with self made rules based upon rumours are definitelly some skillfull players. *sigh* I'd just say that they do not take away anything from you.

we where playing a game of 7th btw, we just got into a discoution about it after... it stated b/c we playd 2 games, 1st game both my oponents double teamed me :P, and 2nd game i steam rolled them, as my bro was complaining about my dark elfs (he plays beastmen) we got on to talking about 8th and it stared the rant


Since when did Daemonettes get ASF?

thats what a buddy of mine was complaining about, i dono, im mainly complaining all round, but dont take it the wrong way, im still exited about it, im gonna play several games b 4 i deside weather i hate it or not.

my biggest complaint is taking out the guesswork/skill

dragonet111
17-06-2010, 08:23
Since when did Daemonettes get ASF?

You have to add a Herald of Slaanesh to your unit.

oCoYoRoAoKo
17-06-2010, 08:24
Hmm, if you ask me then its a good thing that i run a 40-strong unit (+3 heralds) of daemonettes in my current 2k force ~ 10x4 under the new rules ofc. Deathstar bonuses + ASF/High Init/2 Attacks a piece... yes please XD

Cy.

King_Pash
17-06-2010, 09:04
Hmm, if you ask me then its a good thing that i run a 40-strong unit (+3 heralds) of daemonettes in my current 2k force ~ 10x4 under the new rules ofc. Deathstar bonuses + ASF/High Init/2 Attacks a piece... yes please XD

Cy.

Aren't those attacks Strength 3? PAH!

Your pale companion
17-06-2010, 09:32
I am with you on skirmishers.
I am going to stop playing with 8th just for that (and the LoS changes).
What the heck was wrong with them in the first place?

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 09:38
str 3 is not weak, ever seen hormo gaunts tearing termies to peices and IGs shooting marines to kingdom comes? Now you get the chance! I am so going to dive into a pool of dice... but someone else can have the honor to go in first...(ouch).

sigur
17-06-2010, 10:09
I'm not sure if many people equate the skill in Warhammer with guessing ranges.

Apart from that, please watch your spelling, please use capital letters where appropriate and remember that "txt speak" is outruled by the posting guidelines. It's just painful to read. ;)

edit: argh, thanks for pointing that out ChaosVC.

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 10:16
I'm not sure if many people equate the skin in Warhammer with guessing ranges.

Apart from that, please watch your spelling, please use capital letters where appropriate and remember that "txt speak" is outruled by the posting guidelines. It's just painful to read. ;)

Warhammer skin? Interesting...

Frankly
17-06-2010, 10:23
We had played a few games with the rumours that we knew and to be honest, they were really exciting. As a hobbist once and tournament player second, theres nothing wrong with seeing a games company stream line rules and fixing up tarpit rules while strenghtening core units ... its all good. So I'd wish people would stop crying 'WHFB <> 40k' every time they don't agreed with a rule change.

oCoYoRoAoKo
17-06-2010, 10:46
Aren't those attacks Strength 3? PAH!

lol, assuming that the entire frontage is in combat (yeah i know almost impossible, but at that wide it can comfortably charge 2-3 enemy units), thats 15 attacks from the front rank (7x2 +1 for champ), 10 attacks from the second rank (assuming the current rumor is true that models in the second rank can attack once if 10 wide), 12 attacks from the heralds (at strength 4, 8 of which ignore armor).

So in total thats 37 attacks from various sources with ASF, WS5/6, I5/6...even if they are mostly at strength 3 i like my chances when i am rerolling to hit on 3s with armor piercing.

Cy.

Grimstonefire
17-06-2010, 10:48
Just to be clear, this is not so much a rant against the *rumours* (presuming the vast majority are now right), this is a rant against 8th ed?


On the skirmishers thing, I will update the sticky later to say they form up to the front, not the back. Not sure it helps, but worth saying.

King_Pash
17-06-2010, 11:07
lol, assuming that the entire frontage is in combat (yeah i know almost impossible, but at that wide it can comfortably charge 2-3 enemy units), thats 15 attacks from the front rank (7x2 +1 for champ), 10 attacks from the second rank (assuming the current rumor is true that models in the second rank can attack once if 10 wide), 12 attacks from the heralds (at strength 4, 8 of which ignore armor).

So in total thats 37 attacks from various sources with ASF, WS5/6, I5/6...even if they are mostly at strength 3 i like my chances when i am rerolling to hit on 3s with armor piercing.

Cy.

And then you go up against Phoenix Guard and you get PAWNED. :eek:

oCoYoRoAoKo
17-06-2010, 11:16
And then you go up against Phoenix Guard and you get PAWNED. :eek:

haha, at the moment that is true. But i am currently looking into ways to get around this problem...I hear that there may be something in the new generic spell lores that may help :shifty:

Cy.

Brady
17-06-2010, 11:22
I totally agree on the premeasuring (and just to make it clear you can measure anything at any time :() and charge of two D6. It ruins the tactical side for me. Though i love the new magic so i think hybrid gaming is in order :)

Commissar Vaughn
17-06-2010, 11:22
Given that charge ranges etc are randomised, I see no problem with measuring ranges before hand.


It works very well in dozens of other games and contrary to the opinion of many a GW gamer isnt actually breaking the laws of the Universe....

Its not like guessing ranges is some mystic art anyway, I cant remember the last time I failed a charge or my big guns missed.

Putty
17-06-2010, 11:25
i realise that slaanesh daemonettes will wind up being broken, they already have a fast movement of 6 already +2D6 that a max of 18" charge, with I5 and ASF with 2A each not counting the 2nd rank getting to attack, they will get to go first VS most things and re rolling per ASF and higher I, now taking this as a reference look at the keeper of secrets, slaanesh will go from one of the worst to possibly the best

no they won't be.

they are only S3.

Frankly
17-06-2010, 13:18
Thats right Putty.

Str3 means that deamonettes will have their roll to play on the table, they're have prime target selections, but will be bouncing off other T4 heavy armour targets, their point cost verses other core/infantry units with step up + horde rules means they'll have to be played well against some T3 opponents as well.

lycanthought
17-06-2010, 13:25
I'd just like to point out that being able to measure how far away you are from the unit you want to charge and then charging a random distance is pretty much the same as not knowing how far away you are and then charging a fixed distance

Bac5665
17-06-2010, 13:42
I'd just like to point out that being able to measure how far away you are from the unit you want to charge and then charging a random distance is pretty much the same as not knowing how far away you are and then charging a fixed distance

Its the same for newer or bad players. For good players of 7E, its a slap in the face, and one of my least favorite parts of 8E.

Havock
17-06-2010, 13:52
I'd just like to point out that being able to measure how far away you are from the unit you want to charge and then charging a random distance is pretty much the same as not knowing how far away you are and then charging a fixed distance

How about "being 95% sure that you are in range and can charge" vs "I can still roll low on this..."

It removes everything about outmanoeuvering your opponent, except for the 'obviously out of range and/or LoS' part.

If I want to play Yahtzee, I'll play Yahtzee. Or, you know, 40k :p

DDogwood
17-06-2010, 13:53
Its the same for newer or bad players. For good players of 7E, its a slap in the face, and one of my least favorite parts of 8E.

I've been playing WFB since 4th edition, and I'd say that it's a change that's long overdue. Pre-measuring with random charges means that we get to replace the "skill" of guessing ranges with actual skills like risk management, tactical planning, and battlefield awareness.

Even carpenters, who are generally very good at guessing ranges, will tell you that it's usually better to measure if you can.

I mostly hear this kind of whining from players who think they're hot stuff because they can tell when their cavalry is more than 10" but less than 14" away from the enemy. I've played plenty of games where pre-measuring is allowed in all sorts of ways, and I've NEVER found that it reduced the element of skill in the game. Rather the opposite, in fact.

Havock
17-06-2010, 13:56
I've been playing WFB since 4th edition, and I'd say that it's a change that's long overdue. Pre-measuring with random charges means that we get to replace the "skill" of guessing ranges with actual skills like risk management, tactical planning, and battlefield awareness.

Sorry, this game doesn't incorporate that. You -have- battlefield awareness but no-one to delegate the response to, nor the timeframe for it, courtesy of "I go, you go".


Even carpenters, who are generally very good at guessing ranges, will tell you that it's usually better to measure if you can.

Its part of the game, for me.


I mostly hear this kind of whining from players who think they're hot stuff because they can tell when their cavalry is more than 10" but less than 14" away from the enemy. I've played plenty of games where pre-measuring is allowed in all sorts of ways, and I've NEVER found that it reduced the element of skill in the game. Rather the opposite, in fact.

Probably because the game mechanics are better than WHFB's ;)

Bac5665
17-06-2010, 14:39
Because you put "skill" in quotes in reference to range judging, I can tell you disdain that that particular skill. Why? What makes the skill of judging distances any less important or valid than calculating odds? In fact, what other skills are there in this game? All maneuvering is, is judging distances, including extrapolating to the next few turns. The rest is statistics.

Well, I like statistics, and that's cool, but I like the judging distances too, and 8E will completely remove that skill. Now in 8E, maneuvering, which in 7E was predicated on your ability to judge how far about things are now and will be in the future, and your assesment of the statistical differences between units, will be based solely on your ability to compare the stats of units. An entire, valid, important, and tactical skill has been lost in 8E. That drives me crazy.

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 14:41
I've been playing WFB since 4th edition, and I'd say that it's a change that's long overdue. Pre-measuring with random charges means that we get to replace the "skill" of guessing ranges with actual skills like risk management, tactical planning, and battlefield awareness.

Even carpenters, who are generally very good at guessing ranges, will tell you that it's usually better to measure if you can.

I mostly hear this kind of whining from players who think they're hot stuff because they can tell when their cavalry is more than 10" but less than 14" away from the enemy. I've played plenty of games where pre-measuring is allowed in all sorts of ways, and I've NEVER found that it reduced the element of skill in the game. Rather the opposite, in fact.

Oh man you crack me up! lol I don't know why people kept using risk management when they don't fking know what it really means. Stop doing it to yourself already people! And what is this carpenters BS. Man you make my day rofl.

Havock
17-06-2010, 14:50
Oh man you crack me up! lol I don't know why people kept using risk management when they don't fking know what it really means. Stop doing it to yourself already people! And what is this carpenters BS. Man you make my day rofl.

This. A thousand times.

NecronBob
17-06-2010, 15:14
The random charges do in fact add a degree of tactics that don't exist in the old rules. For example, with Dragon Princes, I know that as soon as I'm within 16" I can charge. There's no decision to be made. Once in a blue moon, I'm 16.5" out, but most of the time I am quite certain of what is going to happen. However, with the random charges, I now have to decide whether to charge or get closer, knowing that if I chose to play it safe and get closer that my enemy may make the longer charge.

I think that's a nice dynamic, and one I'm willing to trade guessing charge distance for. I'll miss guessing more on war machines.

Bac5665
17-06-2010, 15:27
The random charges do in fact add a degree of tactics that don't exist in the old rules. For example, with Dragon Princes, I know that as soon as I'm within 16" I can charge. There's no decision to be made. Once in a blue moon, I'm 16.5" out, but most of the time I am quite certain of what is going to happen. However, with the random charges, I now have to decide whether to charge or get closer, knowing that if I chose to play it safe and get closer that my enemy may make the longer charge.

I think that's a nice dynamic, and one I'm willing to trade guessing charge distance for. I'll miss guessing more on war machines.

But this is wrong. 2d6 roll 7 or more more often than not. So 7+M is a wining bet, period. Now, you may want to adjust that to 6+M just to make sure, but my point is is that there is some point just like before where there is no more decision to be made and you will charge if you know what you are doing.

The difference is twofold. 1, it take no skill to get to that point where there is no decision, where in 7E, it did, and 2, the dice control what happens, not you're skill in getting to that point, like in 7E.

So 8E is leaving you with the same point of "now you should always charge," its just letting you measure to get there, rather than relying on player skill, and then its letting the dice determine whether or not even measuring correctly is enough to get the job done.

I don't see that as an improvement at all, and see it as quite a bit worse.

WolfVonhinslik
17-06-2010, 15:52
Apart from that, please watch your spelling, please use capital letters where appropriate and remember that "txt speak" is outruled by the posting guidelines. It's just painful to read. ;)

i hate grammar nazzis, i was a bit buzzed last night, and i dont have the best grammer in the world, apparently nobody els had a problem reading it, if it hurts, dont read it, speaking of grammer, you mean to say "out ruled", its 2 words, not 1 :)



The random charges do in fact add a degree of tactics that don't exist in the old rules

we will have to wait and see, like i said, im gonna play 8th 7-8 games VS different opponents before i make my decision

see i see your point, but having to do a loop'd loop and the cha cha before you charge adds a different level of tactics, that dosent mean its a good idea, using your example, if my unit of black Guard is about 8" away, and i happen to roll snake eyes, then im Fked

i dont get the point of scouts now, no 360 LoS, rank up, they are useless now, id rather take another bolt thrower

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 15:58
so i think hybrid gaming is in order :)

How could I miss this, its the same idea my group is having. Just need lots of meetings, beer and pretzels haha. No really, thats really a fine idea and we are considering about it.

random600
17-06-2010, 16:02
I really want to know how many people on here have actually played with the new rule book? Just because the guessing for the range is gone and you have random charges doesn't take out any of the tactics, its just moved them. Now instead of worrying about guessing distances for everything you have new army comp rules. A completely new battle system (not losing fighting ranks when guys die, I order, and many other fun new things). Don't look at things and judge it sucks until you try it out. Well unless your talking about TLoS ( can't see nuthing good about that).

Frankly
17-06-2010, 16:09
So 8E is leaving you with the same point of "now you should always charge," its just letting you measure to get there, rather than relying on player skill, and then its letting the dice determine whether or not even measuring correctly is enough to get the job done.

I don't see that as an improvement at all, and see it as quite a bit worse.

I'd give it a skill factor of like hmmm 1/10 to work out your charge ranges in 7 Ed.

It may not be an improvement in skill to get the charge off in 8th Ed, but it is fun to roll and see if your best laid plans get lucky.

My favorite phase in WHFB is the movement phase, funnily enough the thing thats sh!ts me the most in the game is charge ranges and the advantages of getting the charge, it was always to easy to dominate some games with a long charge range.

That, ''should I stay or should I go'' feeling I get when I'm playing sports is a same feeling I get when looking at a charge situation in 8 Ed, which is a good thing imho. Also now its not all about counting the numbers before getting into combat, theres luck envolved and although I like to have comtrol over what my army does, if I have to much control then it just bores me and everything seems abit predetermanded.

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 16:19
Well historical games (not from GW mind you) don't double their movement distance when they "charge" and the term "charge" does not exist. The moment 2 units make contact, they are assummed to have engaged each other, technically, they are played out as if 2 units are charging at each other regardless of which unit is initiating the engagment, so 2 cavalry making contact will be applying their lance bonus for the first round of combat only...haha sorry, off topic.

horror
17-06-2010, 16:24
i hate grammar nazzis, i was a bit buzzed last night, and i dont have the best grammer in the world, apparently nobody els had a problem reading it, if it hurts, dont read it, speaking of grammer, you mean to say "out ruled", its 2 words, not 1 :)

To be fair, you could be making a bit more of an effort. Your spelling is atrocious.

WolfVonhinslik
17-06-2010, 16:32
To be fair, you could be making a bit more of an effort. Your spelling is atrocious.

again, i was a little buzzed last night, as for grammar, typing dont instead of don't, personally i really dont care to be honest, its a forum and you get the idea of what im saying, if i was applying for a job, thats a different story. chill out, im not typing TXT or L33T, so calm down, so what if my grammar sucks.

Frankly
17-06-2010, 16:34
I really want to know how many people on here have actually played with the new rule book ....

I've played 3.5 games using mock rumor rules thanks to a geeky rules lawyer watching over the games(;cough; steve ;cough ). I watched a couple more.

Enjoyable. Really really fun, movment was great, guessing was super, it pushed you the think about the game in 6 turns or more or less.

NecronBob
17-06-2010, 16:45
But this is wrong. 2d6 roll 7 or more more often than not. So 7+M is a wining bet, period. Now, you may want to adjust that to 6+M just to make sure, but my point is is that there is some point just like before where there is no more decision to be made and you will charge if you know what you are doing.



I can see what you're saying, but here's where I disagree. In 7e, 16 inches is 16 inches. I can either charge or not. But in the new rules that's not true. Let's say my army is in a tight spot, but those Dragon Princes I have been setting up for a charge are past that 7+M safe bet range. I have to decide whether to give it a go now in order to swing things in my favor or to wait until it's safer and risk losing the combat. That's where the new tactics are.

CaliforniaGamer
17-06-2010, 17:06
I think the OP needs to read the actual book carefully and then play a ton of games using it properly.

Many of the rumors here over the past month were utter fiction: miscasts being gone (LOL!), "one and only one save", etc.

If people think a unit of 20-25 Daemonettes with Str3(AP) and a herald are going to carry the day and are "broke", they will very suprised at the reality.

After the daemonettes strike, expect at least 6+ attacks (direct and supporting) onto the herald of Slannesh, the herald will fall. The opponent will be steadfast regardless rd1 and rd2+ the daemonettes will get routed.

Rants at this point are both unneeded and completely unwarranted.

ChaosVC
17-06-2010, 17:18
I can see what you're saying, but here's where I disagree. In 7e, 16 inches is 16 inches. I can either charge or not. But in the new rules that's not true. Let's say my army is in a tight spot, but those Dragon Princes I have been setting up for a charge are past that 7+M safe bet range. I have to decide whether to give it a go now in order to swing things in my favor or to wait until it's safer and risk losing the combat. That's where the new tactics are.

No thats not tactics, thats your brain telling you that if you are lucky, you can pull of a charge because it may just save your unit or you are hopping that the unit you are trying to save will last a little longer with good rolls(fingers crossed) so you can get yourself in a much safer bet with the charge by moving closer, risking one more turn of uncertainty. Dude, all gamblers think that way! How is that even remotely tactical?

Reticent
17-06-2010, 17:53
so what if my grammar sucks.

The thing is, for many of the users of this forum English is a foreign language. That means it is often already hard enough for some of them to understand standard English, nevermind the crazy, sloppy, casual kind of English you or I might use with people we know. I guess my point is that, on this forum anyway, not making an attempt at spelling and grammar is rude.

On topic- while it bothers me a little that there isn't more variety in charge ranges in 8th, having a chance of failure isn't a bad thing for the game. It just gives you one more thing you have to account for while maneuvering which actually adds tactical depth.

Also, let's face it, only beginners truly "guess" ranges anyway. So many distances will already be known on the table, (how deep was the deployment zone, how far have I already moved, etc) that most ranges have effectively been premeasured. In a way, that means it in 7th and earlier it becomes almost impossible not to, in a sense, cheat. This isnt' the case in 8th obviously.

Havock
17-06-2010, 18:07
I can see what you're saying, but here's where I disagree. In 7e, 16 inches is 16 inches. I can either charge or not. But in the new rules that's not true. Let's say my army is in a tight spot, but those Dragon Princes I have been setting up for a charge are past that 7+M safe bet range. I have to decide whether to give it a go now in order to swing things in my favor or to wait until it's safer and risk losing the combat. That's where the new tactics are.

So the new tactics are... Dice.

NecronBob
17-06-2010, 18:41
Deciding whether to take a risk is a tactical decision. You know the percentages. You have to weigh whether the situation dictates taking the risk and whether it is worth it given the context. I guess there are different understandings of what "tactics" mean.. For me, it's making the best choice in a given situation. For some, it seems to be being able to figure out how far apart two sets of models are.

And Reticent is correct, having more to account for helps add depth to those decisions that we have to make.

King_Pash
17-06-2010, 18:43
I, for one, am quite open to the idea of random charges. I think they are perhaps a little extreme (2D6 + M?!) but add a little bit of uncertainty that can make the game more fun.

I suspect the people who will be most disappointed are the competitive/tournament players who want as much reliability in their gaming as possible. I don't condone it as it's a personal preference but for me that makes a game very boring, very quickly.

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 21:02
Hmm, if you ask me then its a good thing that i run a 40-strong unit (+3 heralds) of daemonettes in my current 2k force ~ 10x4 under the new rules ofc. Deathstar bonuses + ASF/High Init/2 Attacks a piece... yes please XD

Cy.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That unit is going to get drilled by every shooting attack, warmachine and spell your opponent has. AND you're going to be hard pressed to stop it because the max wizard level in a Daemon army (unless you wanna take a DP) is 1 or 2 for Tzeentch. Greater Daemons are all about 600+ and therefore don't fit until playing 2500pts or more.

Besides, Daemonettes getting a bucket of attacks is fine, because due to step up you'll get a bucket back... And I promise you they won't weather it.

Petey
18-06-2010, 05:34
Combat will normalize the damage a lot. Thanks to stepping up, you ll see halberds be worth taking and many previously unusable options begin to work (just do the math on corsairs with hand bows)
My only fly in the ointment atm, is the terrain rules are rubbish (with the notable and poignant rules for buildings which are an excellent exception)

Lord Solar Plexus
18-06-2010, 05:50
WolfVonhinslik, it is obvious to everyone that your "opiion" on the "rumers" is a lot of hot air. Most of the rules you refer to are completely wrong.

Secondly, it's nothing but a net platitude that "they" are turning WFB into 40k and thereby "take the skill out of it". You need at least as much tactics and skill in 40k simply because it is more complex - and WFB is becoming less predictable and more complex as well.

Don Zeko
18-06-2010, 05:59
I want to make a quick meta-point to the OP here. People learn proper punctuation, spelling and grammar for a reason. If you want to write a polemic, go for it! I like good polemics. But if you don't get the basic technical aspects of writing down, your post becomes irritating to read and difficult to take seriously, making it hard for readers to even consider what you're trying to say when they have to work so hard to figure out what that is.

rocdocta
18-06-2010, 06:20
i think that before they try and copy the WOTR rules for fantasy to get more people into that failed game, maybe they should look at why it failed. It seems to be @rse about.

It just seems so full of fail. The only winner will be Ebay.

Wakerofgods
18-06-2010, 06:34
I've never liked the range quessing aspect of the rules and I'm glad to see it gone.

Frankly
18-06-2010, 08:45
I want to make a quick meta-point to the OP here. People learn proper punctuation, spelling and grammar for a reason.


Oh please, get off your high horse and leave the fella alone. Don't make out like no-one understood a single word he said.

Lord Solar Plexus
18-06-2010, 09:15
His spelling is just a symptom. It indicates a lack of diligence. It appears as if he exploded after a cursory glance at the rumours and wrote his post without thinking it through or making an attempt to verify things.

Frankly
18-06-2010, 09:21
It indicates a lack of diligence.

Well ... you got me there. /bows out.

El'Flashman
18-06-2010, 09:47
I just hope these rumers prove to be unfounded :D

King_Pash
18-06-2010, 12:31
I just hope these rumers prove to be unfounded :D

Or unfunded :D

horror
18-06-2010, 23:33
Or unfunded :D

pls use correct grammer

Shamutanti
18-06-2010, 23:44
Am a fan of pre-measuring/random charges.

Too many games in my area were won/lost because people were half an inch out, notably my opponents.

I'm typically 95% accurate with all my guesses, be it charge distances, cannons, stone throwers, whatever, which just meant my opponents suffered because of it. Which frankly wasn't fun.

This brings a nice, welcome change. The chance of taking a risk can be properly measured and considered now, weighing up what your opponent will do as well as the responses announced individually to each charge with proper reactions - it's something I approve of and no doubt will be something all the players in my area will embrace.

No more will I have to apologise to a friend for beating him because he can't tell the difference of 16 inch from 17inch.

Bring on the pre-measuring/randoms!

(Plus there's more fun relying on luck! :> )

WolfVonhinslik
19-06-2010, 01:33
Oh please, get off your high horse and leave the fella alone. Don't make out like no-one understood a single word he said.

exactly, thank you


Am a fan of pre-measuring/random charges.

Too many games in my area were won/lost because people were half an inch out, notably my opponents.

I'm typically 95% accurate with all my guesses, be it charge distances, cannons, stone throwers, whatever, which just meant my opponents suffered because of it. Which frankly wasn't fun.

This brings a nice, welcome change. The chance of taking a risk can be properly measured and considered now, weighing up what your opponent will do as well as the responses announced individually to each charge with proper reactions - it's something I approve of and no doubt will be something all the players in my area will embrace.

No more will I have to apologise to a friend for beating him because he can't tell the difference of 16 inch from 17inch.

Bring on the pre-measuring/randoms!

(Plus there's more fun relying on luck! :> )

After reading over the rules a bit more, i can see how some of them will be beneficial, tho there are still a few that i disagree with, but as stated before, im going to play several games in 8th before i make a decision.

I too hate the fact that i lose my cold one knights because i was 1/2 an inch away from there intended target, now i get flanked and lose my +2S.

I think now my biggest complaint that i have not heard anything about on a good side, is the rule for Skirmishers... they make no sense.

inb4 Grammar Nazzis

Havock
19-06-2010, 01:59
(Plus there's more fun relying on luck! :> )

Not when you have a hate-hate relationship with lady fortune.

UberBeast
19-06-2010, 02:01
Not when you have a hate-hate relationship with lady fortune.

Maybe if you remembered her birthday once in a while...

WolfVonhinslik
19-06-2010, 02:42
(Plus there's more fun relying on luck! :> )

if i wanted to play a game of luck i would play something that involved dice.....>.>