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ErictheGreen
17-06-2010, 06:48
My local blackshirt seems to think that at the back end of july, when all the pdf erratas are released (containing possibly, he thinks, changes to the lores, especially those of us with a unique miscast table), there will be a card deck released with all spells of all lores, including the new ones he thinks will be released in the errata. data will be around 24th july.

The-Malefic
17-06-2010, 07:02
Pinch of salt.

It makes far too much sense to actually happen!

Vsurma
17-06-2010, 07:07
What like that packet of cards that says battle magic :)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=10500132a

There is also a picture of some of the cards floating around but I am too lazy to find it, the only cards visible in that pic were from the lore of death.

dragonet111
17-06-2010, 07:14
I want a deck for chaos magic :D

Kaleth
17-06-2010, 07:46
You mean the lores besides those in the main rulebook? Like the Slaaneshi spells etc?

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 09:07
I can confirm that there is a Battle Magic deck being released for a specific army on the 24th July. I am only aware of one at this stage, though I can see there being more of course. ;).

dragonet111
17-06-2010, 09:09
That's a great news at least for me:D.

I still have my 5ed magic cards I love it.

I have just re-red the firestorm of Tzeentch and Bolt of Change for 5ed it was NASTY but after reading some of the new spells and especially the Purple Sun of Xereus those spells are almost playable again (ok not Bolt of Change......)

BramGaunt
17-06-2010, 09:16
To confirm Scryer: Beastmen magic (Lore of the Wilderness, iirc) will be the first armyspecific magic deck to be released. I was told that others would follow.

All basic lores will be released alongside the rulebook.

Avian
17-06-2010, 09:18
Though not necessarily right away. Army books with an update in the close future won't get spell cards until the new book is out, for example.

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 10:22
I've been wanting those for years, and GW makes my wish happen! I've never expected to live to see the day where they try to breath some life into the game. Is the world coming to an end? Even if 8th Edition is crap (though I see no evidence for it) one has to admire GW's efforts.

RanaldLoec
17-06-2010, 10:30
Oh I remember the old card board battle magic decks I needed a separate carry case for all the hundreds of spell cards, magic items them where days. Glad to see the cards are making a come back in a limited form.

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 10:42
Oh I remember the old card board battle magic decks I needed a separate carry case for all the hundreds of spell cards, magic items
I don't need to remember them... I've still got them! :D

Spiney Norman
17-06-2010, 10:47
To confirm Scryer: Beastmen magic (Lore of the Wilderness, iirc) will be the first armyspecific magic deck to be released. I was told that others would follow.

All basic lores will be released alongside the rulebook.

So, how much do we think they'll charge for 7 pieces of cardboard?

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 10:52
So, how much do we think they'll charge for 7 pieces of cardboard?
It's not much (IMO) but I'm sure people will be outraged nonetheless (thank god I've chosen not to post prices any more so I don't have bear witness to that)... it also may not be as many as 7 cards according to the price list.
EDIT - Although I should say that the GW product brief says 7 cards.

Ramius4
17-06-2010, 11:14
To confirm Scryer: Beastmen magic (Lore of the Wilderness, iirc) will be the first armyspecific magic deck to be released. I was told that others would follow.

All basic lores will be released alongside the rulebook.

***** sweet:D Now if they'd just revise that lame default spell for them...

GodlessM
17-06-2010, 11:15
We all know a very long time that the cards are being released, so that's nothing new, but the errata isn't touching the army book lores. It really needs to be stressed that the errata is for compatibility issues and nothing more.

mrtn
17-06-2010, 11:17
To confirm Scryer: Beastmen magic (Lore of the Wilderness, iirc) will be the first armyspecific magic deck to be released. I was told that others would follow.

All basic lores will be released alongside the rulebook.

Too bad the Lore of the Wild looks to be totally outclassed by the Lore of Beasts. :shifty:

Ramius4
17-06-2010, 11:23
It really needs to be stressed that the errata is for compatibility issues and nothing more.

My personal comment was merely a wish, nothing more.


Too bad the Lore of the Wild looks to be totally outclassed by the Lore of Beasts. :shifty:

Oh, I dunno about that. In 8th, all those lore of the Wild spells just got between -1 and -4 easier to cast depending on your level.

I think it will come down to choosing between quantity (army book lores), and higher quality (new rulebook lores) when you get down to choosing your magic strategy.

Przemcio251
17-06-2010, 11:39
Ok and when the Errata PDF files will be released???

Vaul Darkhour
17-06-2010, 11:39
correct me if im wrong, but how do you release 7 odd spell cards as a deck?

Ramius4
17-06-2010, 11:41
correct me if im wrong, but how do you release 7 odd spell cards as a deck?

Same way you do for more than that, only smaller:p

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 11:43
Fired up the old e-mail machine just to confirm the number of cards in the set (not that there was really any doubt) and looky what I got to boot in return. :)

Vaul Darkhour
17-06-2010, 11:45
Same way you do for more than that, only smaller:p

so its actually a blister pack? :rolleyes: fair enough.. havent collected cards for a number of years but i suppose that makes sense.. boxes of lore blister packs.. they could at least bundle them in with the new books being so small a quantity..

nice scryer.. esp. for an aussie.. now wheres the HE ones? ;)

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 11:50
so its actually a blister pack? :rolleyes: fair enough.. havent collected cards for a number of years but i suppose that makes sense.. boxes of lore blister packs.. they could at least bundle them in with the new books being so small a quantity..
Not a blister pack as such, but as Limited Edition items they do up little cardboard packs for them.


nice scryer.. esp. for an aussie..

I take great offence Sir! How very dare you! :D

Ramius4
17-06-2010, 11:51
Cool, thanks for the sneak peak Scryer.

GodlessM
17-06-2010, 11:54
My personal comment was merely a wish, nothing more.

Wasn't aimed at you; we actually posted at the same time.

Vaul Darkhour
17-06-2010, 11:57
Not a blister pack as such, but as Limited Edition items they do up little cardboard packs for them.



I take great offence Sir! How very dare you! :D

lol.. thats a compliment.. unless your a northerner, and then even then its still a compliment! :D

Captain Ventris
17-06-2010, 13:30
I can confirm that there is a Battle Magic deck being released for a specific army on the 24th July. I am only aware of one at this stage, though I can see there being more of course. ;).

I believe it is for beastmen, our IGS already has it on their order sheet...they are supposedly going to be very hard to get, we were only able to pick up two decks initialy, don't know if this is a splash release or will be a regular item

nvm...I didn't read far enough down the forum....fail

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 13:41
I believe it is for beastmen, our IGS already has it on their order sheet...they are supposedly going to be very hard to get, we were only able to pick up two decks initialy, don't know if this is a splash release or will be a regular item
It's a limited edition.


nvm...I didn't read far enough down the forum....fail
LOL. :D

TheZombieSquig
17-06-2010, 16:18
This is great news, no more needing the MTG cards. I just hope they don't overprice them too much.

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 16:20
1 per card sound fair?

Well considering what I paid for my Magic decks... :rolleyes:

shelfunit.
17-06-2010, 16:20
For 7 cards... they'll probably go for 2.50, even GW can't charge more than that for 7 unnecessary bits of paper...

Scryer in the Darkness
17-06-2010, 16:23
Just to point that Siam-Tiger has just posted in the Incoming Daemons thread of the Battle Magic: Daemons deck in August:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4742535#post4742535

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 16:23
As I said...

shelfunit.
17-06-2010, 16:56
Good God! 5.25 Euros for 7 cards!?! thats 3.50 in the GW currency converter - 50p for a single card!

EDIT: Mind you, if it is for all three Chaos spell decks it is 21 cards - so not too bad - sorry for the hysterical moment.

TheZombieSquig
17-06-2010, 18:02
Well the battle magic card set is 6 for 56 cards (11p per card). And they are useful to lots of armies and therefore it's understandable that they overcharge for them.

Daemons, 21 cards (I presume) for 3.50 is about 17p per card. Obviously packaging costs as well.

I hope they're not more than 2 per deck for single-army lores.

Given that Skaven were apparently written with 8th in mind, anyone know if they have a 13-card deck coming out soon? :)

dragonet111
17-06-2010, 18:09
For 7 cards... they'll probably go for 2.50, even GW can't charge more than that for 7 unnecessary bits of paper...

It won't be bits of paper but high quality cardboard with amazing arts and endless uses.........well at least that how GW will justify the price.:D

Skyros
17-06-2010, 18:15
Will there be cards for the TK, OK, and Sigmarite bound spells :D

shelfunit.
17-06-2010, 18:20
Maybe speculation, but how about "Force of Order, neutallity and Evil" card decks, with several armys per deck? Would make the decks a viable size (if the chaos is 21, these would be simarly sized) and cost?

BramGaunt
17-06-2010, 18:23
Good God! 5.25 Euros for 7 cards!?! thats 3.50 in the GW currency converter - 50p for a single card!

EDIT: Mind you, if it is for all three Chaos spell decks it is 21 cards - so not too bad - sorry for the hysterical moment.

You are aware that demons have 3 lores and therefor most probably will have 18 cards?

Edit: No, afaik there won't be any new base spells for already existing lores. Base spells will be ruled out by the errata. eg, the base spell for dark Elves magic, will be frost wind.

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 21:36
You are aware that demons have 3 lores and therefor most probably will have 18 cards?

Edit: No, afaik there won't be any new base spells for already existing lores. Base spells will be ruled out by the errata. eg, the base spell for dark Elves magic, will be frost wind.

BRB says you may always double a spell that "may be chosen instead of..." ie spell 1 in most lores...

Vaul Darkhour
17-06-2010, 22:40
please, someone please think of the children.. what news on a HE deck and spells/base/errata?! :p

RealMikeBob
18-06-2010, 08:21
Good God! 5.25 Euros for 7 cards!?! thats 3.50

I would be happy to pay that. I've bought sandwiches that cost more and last less time than these will.

Captain Ventris
18-06-2010, 13:30
please, someone please think of the children.. what news on a HE deck and spells/base/errata?! :p

Yes...we shall think of these...children...and then we shall REND THEIR BONES TO DUST AND FEAST UPON THIER FLESH...BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

*hurmpf* *Cough*

I anxiously await the Warriors of Chaos Spell deck...

Avian
18-06-2010, 13:32
I would be happy to pay that. I've bought sandwiches that cost more and last less time than these will.
Though they were presumably more nutritious. ;)

Zaszz
18-06-2010, 14:07
Honestly with all the money and time and energy we spend making our armies sexy, I'm surprised people are worried about price. I would assume most people would be in the same boat as me, if they make cooler rule books that cost extra heck yes I'm getting them. If they make neat cards with awesome art to go with my army I've spent so much time on, heck yes I'm getting those too.

Hell I'd pay 20 dollars for a set of 7 probably, so long as the quality was top notch. I spent so much time and money on my armies I want the best everything I can get to go with them.

Of course I prefer if they make quality items at a reasonable cost but I'm just saying I wouldn't be against having to pay to get the best for my little plastic guys.

Dakka Dan 42
18-06-2010, 17:18
please, someone please think of the children..

I am. The children of the HORNED RAT! :evilgrin:

Super-evil-genius-rat-magic! Woooo!


On a serious note, this is amazing. Never thought I'd see GW make magic decks for everyone. Though since my Army Book got done most recently, I'll probably be last. :cries:

Oh wait... that'll probably be Ogre Kingdoms. :D

Pacorko
18-06-2010, 17:31
Oh I remember the old card board battle magic decks I needed a separate carry case for all the hundreds of spell cards, magic items them where days. Glad to see the cards are making a come back in a limited form.

Yep. That also makes me hope WD will see an increase in nice, useful content that we must cut away and store to become even mightier generals!

Yet', let it be said that I don't see my paying more than 2 quid for a deck that has less that 20 cards on it... as most army-specific magic decks willl most like be. Only Chaos could more than 24 spells right away.

Now, if they are going to throw in the magical armouries and other goodies, then that might be a whole 'nother matter altogether.

R-Love
18-06-2010, 20:52
Though they were presumably more nutritious. ;)

I don't know. I've had more than a few sandwiches that tasted like cardboard, that cost as much or more. :(

Ramius4
18-06-2010, 21:48
Yep. That also makes me hope WD will see an increase in nice, useful content that we must cut away and store to become even mightier generals!

We're more likely to see an increase in the price of WD than the content:p


I don't know. I've had more than a few sandwiches that tasted like cardboard, that cost as much or more. :(

But these will undoubtedly have more fiber. And really, sandwiches don't usually have cool pictures on them (unless you're really good with a knife). And I've never flipped over a sandwich in my opponent's face so he can see what it says, rolled some dice, and laughed as the result of my sandwich blew up the enemy:shifty:

I don't think $5 or $6 dollars U.S. is unreasonable for 6-7 cards honestly. Each set is going to be a niche market since they're tied to specific armies. I don't know that I'll buy them all, but if I had the spare cash I might.

Mach_5
21-06-2010, 17:15
Oh, I dunno about that. In 8th, all those lore of the Wild spells just got between -1 and -4 easier to cast depending on your level.
Although Beastmen do get a further +1 to cast the spells in the Lore of the Beasts. I don't see myself using Lore of the Wild any more in 8th than I did in 7th (almost never).

Skyven
21-06-2010, 17:29
White Dwarf 367 just dropped through the post box. Page 10 has Warhammer Battle Magic: Beastmen being released on 24 July at 3.00. Available while stocks last.

Midevil216
21-06-2010, 19:23
I don't need to remember them... I've still got them! :D

I still have mine also.:)

strewart
22-06-2010, 02:32
Maybe it would make sense for the decks of cards to be sold with the army books? Obviously as new books were made, have them stuck to the front or something.


Hell I'd pay 20 dollars for a set of 7 probably, so long as the quality was top notch

Shhh. Don't let them know that. ;)

Scryer in the Darkness
22-06-2010, 17:57
Well, the GW blog post has gone up for the day entitled "New Beastmen Magic cards; Warhammer Video; Warhammer scenery; lots tanks" (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=10500139a). And the Beastmen deck up for order:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1690000&prodId=prod800024a

shelfunit.
22-06-2010, 18:04
It's a shame they are charging 3 for a single set - the 6 for the main lores is actually pretty good value and I will be buying some.

venus_redscar
22-06-2010, 18:30
I wonder how long until the other books get a pack. Definitely picking up the ones for the armies I enjoy.

Scryer in the Darkness
22-06-2010, 18:34
I wonder how long until the other books get a pack.
Well Daemons are getting theirs in August and I think you can probably guess what army(s) might get theirs around September time. ;)

GodlessM
22-06-2010, 18:39
Well Daemons are getting theirs in August and I think you can probably guess what army(s) might get theirs around September time. ;)

Armies .

dragonet111
22-06-2010, 18:40
I love those cards.

I prefer the dice for magic but I miss the cards, I still have my chaos magic card it was a very cool part of game.

If they produce magic item cards I'll buy them asap.:D

Scryer in the Darkness
22-06-2010, 18:42
Armies .

Shush. I post my posts for vagueness. :p

Bear Speve
22-06-2010, 18:46
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=10500139a

Warhammer Battle Magic: Beastmen

SeaSwift
22-06-2010, 18:46
Nah - I think he was just correcting your grammar :)

I don't get the idea of card decks - isn't this what the Army Book is for?

Scryer in the Darkness
22-06-2010, 18:51
Nah - I think he was just correcting your grammar :)
I think not. ;)


I don't get the idea of card decks - isn't this what the Army Book is for?
Just limited edition novelties. Handy little things with a bit of a nostalgic tint for those who remember the previous Battle Magic set.

EmperorNorton
22-06-2010, 18:53
It's a shame they are charging 3 for a single set - the 6 for the main lores is actually pretty good value and I will be buying some.

While you are right that 3 (or 3.90, in my case) is quite expensive for a single set, I can see myself buying these.
Finally a product again that is in the pocket change range.

Rockgut
22-06-2010, 20:03
Nah - I think he was just correcting your grammar :)

I don't get the idea of card decks - isn't this what the Army Book is for?


Nice reference to have on the table so you don't have to remember what spells each wizard has and/or leaf through the army book each time to see what each spell does.

In 8th it would also be a good way to select spells since you can't repeat, just draw your spells from the deck. Though I am sure most people would rather roll since they may get a double and be able to select the spell they want.

Archibald_TK
22-06-2010, 21:10
While I like the idea of the card deck I asked about their size and apparently they will be bigger than a regular CCG card, so people won't be able to protect them with plastic sleeves.
I do not like the idea of cards I can't protect, innocently wandering around a table at the mercy of wild drinks and other vicious predators :(

GodlessM
22-06-2010, 21:31
Yup, the size of tarot apparantly.

Avian
22-06-2010, 21:36
I made my own some time back, they are approx. 2 cm by 6 cm and quite convenient to have as reminders - they are even small enough to be moved around next to the wizard without getting in the way.

Vaul Darkhour
23-06-2010, 02:30
I've already ordered some despite having made my own HE spell cards.. just for the hell of it, the fact they are relatively cheap and save me doing my own lore cards.. and yes i know of baron wolf but i found i could do better esp. with wording..

shabbadoo
23-06-2010, 09:30
A spells + magic items deck for each army would be nice. I'd have to catch-em all. :D

horror
23-06-2010, 11:22
Where are the Skaven cards?!?! I need them!

GodlessM
23-06-2010, 11:27
September.

Przemcio251
23-06-2010, 15:38
question dose the new Beastmen Card deck include new spell's or just the spell's from the rulebook???

dragonet111
23-06-2010, 16:04
I think that the beastmen card deck contain the 7 spells of the of the current armybook.

Also I just red the book and it seems that those spells are the first 8ed spells.

GodlessM
23-06-2010, 16:06
question dose the new Beastmen Card deck include new spell's or just the spell's from the rulebook???

They aren't getting a new lore if that is what you are asking. The big is the first 8th ed book and only out a few months after all.

Spinocus
23-06-2010, 23:18
Nice cards. I wish GW would post a pic of the front of the cards to give us an idea of the artwork. Anyway $5 is a bit expensive for a handful of color images printed on treated card stock but nice nonetheless. Can't wait to see the Skaven Lore cards when they're released in September.

One thing, each of the Beastmen cards specifically states that "The Lore of the Wild has no lore attribute". So I guess it's safe to say that both Skaven lores as well as every other army specific lore is going to get the same 'zero attributes' treatment. Pity, I was hoping for some creative thinking from GW to jazz them up.

Voss
24-06-2010, 01:07
Nah - I think he was just correcting your grammar :)

I don't get the idea of card decks - isn't this what the Army Book is for?

It isn't a necessary thing, but its useful in several ways- not least of which is showing your opponent that you're actually keeping track of which wizard has which spells. Personally, I'd rather just print out a nicely laid out page, cut them apart and stick them in a few spare sleeves I use for my warmachine/hordes cards, but honestly little things like this do sell.

Enfid
24-06-2010, 03:59
I'm quite surprised it's another limited quantities thing. What's with GW and making all the cool stuff limited quantities? All beginning with Space Hulk (AFAIK). Next thing we know they're going to make some units in the game a limited quantities run.

Back on topic, I'm definitely waiting for the Skaven one.

Spiney Norman
24-06-2010, 10:03
One thing, each of the Beastmen cards specifically states that "The Lore of the Wild has no lore attribute". So I guess it's safe to say that both Skaven lores as well as every other army specific lore is going to get the same 'zero attributes' treatment. Pity, I was hoping for some creative thinking from GW to jazz them up.

I guess thats incentive for you to use the BRB lores. To be honest I think a lot of people will anyway, certainly as a WE player I'll certainly be taking a spell weaver to get access to beasts/life, which are two of my fav lores in 8E.

GodlessM
24-06-2010, 11:44
I'm quite surprised it's another limited quantities thing. What's with GW and making all the cool stuff limited quantities? All beginning with Space Hulk (AFAIK). Next thing we know they're going to make some units in the game a limited quantities run.

Back on topic, I'm definitely waiting for the Skaven one.

To be honest I'd say they aren't. They are probably posting them as limited edition so people buy them all up and then they will just sell more with some excuse like 'due to popular demand'.

stuntyKing
24-06-2010, 11:54
Do you think dwarfs will get a pack for the anvil of doom?:)

Scryer in the Darkness
24-06-2010, 16:30
What's with GW and making all the cool stuff limited quantities? All beginning with Space Hulk (AFAIK).
GW have been making limited editions (known as Single Print products) outside of miniatures for ages and ages. Well before Space Hulk.


To be honest I'd say they aren't.
They most certainly are. But then, every time GW bring out a limited edition product there's someone who says "aw I bet it's not limited at all". It'll be interesting to see how/if these sell out as demand for different armies will be different and it's a "new" odd product for GW being small non-essential card items.

Skyros
24-06-2010, 16:47
Well, I'm going to be buying a pack of these when they come out. Now that there are 7 spells per lore it is no longer convenient simply to mark a casters spells with a D6.

Plus it won't hurt to have a handy reference for what spells you have without having to dig out the enormous rulebook.

All I have to do is not buy popcorn and soda next time I go to the movies and I have enough money :p

Archibald_TK
24-06-2010, 21:53
We received the cards today. I've yet to open the pack but regarding their size they are not like Tarot cards, they are more like oversized regular cards. Imagine a poker card, except 50% bigger both in height and width.

HeroFox
24-06-2010, 22:01
We received the cards today. I've yet to open the pack but regarding their size they are not like Tarot cards, they are more like oversized regular cards. Imagine a poker card, except 50% bigger both in height and width.

Is this the Beastman cards?

The first thing you should check for is whether or not anything changed in casting values or the spells themselves.

Ramius4
24-06-2010, 22:23
We received the cards today. I've yet to open the pack but regarding their size they are not like Tarot cards, they are more like oversized regular cards. Imagine a poker card, except 50% bigger both in height and width.

So... You mean like a tarot card? :eyebrows:

Vaul Darkhour
24-06-2010, 23:42
So... You mean like a tarot card? :eyebrows:

lol.......

GodlessM
24-06-2010, 23:49
Is this the Beastman cards?

The first thing you should check for is whether or not anything changed in casting values or the spells themselves.

Why waste the time, they didn't. These cards are guides, not erratas, and since the actual errata isn't editing army book lores (because it is not for dealing with balance issues) there's no reason to assume the cards would.

Plus, I really thought everyone knew by now that Beastmen is an 8th edition army book and not a 7th.

Enfid
25-06-2010, 00:38
GW have been making limited editions (known as Single Print products) outside of miniatures for ages and ages. Well before Space Hulk.

Clearly I'm too young :p

strewart
25-06-2010, 02:06
Why waste the time, they didn't. These cards are guides, not erratas, and since the actual errata isn't editing army book lores (because it is not for dealing with balance issues) there's no reason to assume the cards would.


Thats great news for my elves, and scary news for VC. Granted a natural 1 or 2 still fails, a VC lord will have a 0+ to cast spell and a 1+ to cast.
I did assume that the erratas wouldn't touch any balance issues though.

The Clairvoyant
25-06-2010, 08:35
The less snidey reply regarding the Beastmen cards would be to have look here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1491876&prodId=prod800024a
Click on the second picture and then zoom it to see the casting values :)

Memnos
25-06-2010, 08:52
The less snidey reply regarding the Beastmen cards would be to have look here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1491876&prodId=prod800024a
Click on the second picture and then zoom it to see the casting values :)

I'm cautious about that. Clearly, the lore is underpowered compared to all the College lores in the main book.

I don't especially care, since they can also get Beasts, Death and Shadow. It just seems silly that they didn't update the lore. If it's a choice between the Lore of the Wild, which allows you to get a creature that has S6 T6 and 6 attacks and the lore of Beasts, which gives you a flying creature with S7 T7 and 4d6 attacks, it's a no brainer.

mrtn
25-06-2010, 10:33
To be fair, Memnos, it's not as clear cut as that. LotW give you a new monster, LoB transforms your caster into a monster. There's a difference.

Memnos
25-06-2010, 11:33
To be fair, Memnos, it's not as clear cut as that. LotW give you a new monster, LoB transforms your caster into a monster. There's a difference.

True. However, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Summon a creature and it might never get to battle, depending on the turn. Turn in to one and if you're in combat you fight first turn. However, it turns your wizard in to a magnet.

The lore is still much, much, much better. Lore of the Wild stinks on ice compared to the rest.

loveless
25-06-2010, 13:14
It just seems silly that they didn't update the lore.

It seems silly that they didn't update an already 8th Edition lore for 8th Edition? :confused:

Memnos
25-06-2010, 13:48
It seems silly that they didn't update an already 8th Edition lore for 8th Edition? :confused:

If it's an 8th edition lore, it's an 8th edition lore that isn't on par with all other lores in 8th edition.

It is, strangely, on par with many 7th edition lores.

So it's either strange that they didn't update the lore, since they'd have playtested experience with 8th edition, or it's strange that they made a lore that is much worse compared to every other 8th edition lore. Take your pick.

strewart
25-06-2010, 13:57
I haven't read the beast lore too closely, but from what I can tell it has casting levels appropriate for 8th ed but power levels appropriate for 7th. A bit of a hybrid. Kinda sucks being the last army for an edition when you are technically designed for the next ed, get a bit half way between.

GodlessM
25-06-2010, 15:05
It seems silly that they didn't update an already 8th Edition lore for 8th Edition? :confused:

Exactly. And the similarities to 8th edition changes can be seen. A S1 spell in the lore which becomes more usable now with the change of the wound table. A summoning spell, higher cast values; a lot of similarities to 8th stuff.

mrtn
25-06-2010, 15:21
I just wish Viletide would have been the signature spell, since the one we have now is still useless. :(

GodlessM
25-06-2010, 16:15
Yea sure is, though note none of the rulebook lores have movement spells any more.

Ramius4
25-06-2010, 16:25
I just wish Viletide would have been the signature spell, since the one we have now is still useless. :(

Having tried Beastmen out three times now, I have to agree. The base spell is nearly worthless 90% of the time. I actually tried to write my list around being able to use that spell, just to see what I could do with it.

If you could use it in an ambushing unit, then yes I could see the benefit. But you can't. It doesn't really allow for positioning either. All you do is move closer.

In three games I only used it once to my benefit when it brought a unit within charge range of a flank. In virtually every other situation all I would have done is given the opponent a charge on the next turn.

I'm really wondering if there isn't some unforseen use for this one in 8th edition that just isn't clear yet. But I can't see what that might be.

GodlessM
25-06-2010, 16:30
Unless it gets errated the uses won't really increase, and AFAIK that isn't happening.

Ramius4
25-06-2010, 16:37
Unless it gets errated the uses won't really increase, and AFAIK that isn't happening.

And you and I both know damn well that isn't going to happen. Bummer really, if not for that 'stop outside of 1" line, it would have been a great spell.

GodlessM
25-06-2010, 18:45
Perhaps there is a line in the book that says if a unit contacts another unit via a method otherwise than normal movement, e.g. magic, random movement, that it counts as a charge, as someone noted that one of the rulebook spells or something or other never mentioned it allowing a charge in its description but saw it been played otherwise.

Ramius4
25-06-2010, 18:59
Perhaps there is a line in the book that says if a unit contacts another unit via a method otherwise than normal movement, e.g. magic, random movement, that it counts as a charge, as someone noted that one of the rulebook spells or something or other never mentioned it allowing a charge in its description but saw it been played otherwise.

That would be great, but the spell itself prevents you from coming closer than 1". So still it's a no-go unless the errata were to surprise us by making an unprecedented change.

GodlessM
25-06-2010, 19:14
Good point.

Archibald_TK
26-06-2010, 11:07
So... You mean like a tarot card? :eyebrows:
... shall I quote the very message you were answering to?

We received the cards today. I've yet to open the pack but regarding their size they are not like Tarot cards, they are more like oversized regular cards. Imagine a poker card, except 50% bigger both in height and width.
But I suppose a pic will be worth a thousand words:

Ultimate Life Form
26-06-2010, 11:12
Other armies would kill for a guaranteed spell that is sure to go off and moves multiple units.

mrtn
26-06-2010, 16:32
Other armies would kill for a guaranteed spell that is sure to go off and moves multiple units.

But would they give anything for a spell that moves multiple units within 6" of the sorcerer, a short but still random distance without option to steer the unit (go towards the closest visible enemy), but still without the option to actually charge? This I doubt. Why would you want to randomly stagger a small part of your army a few inches closer to the enemy? And why would you want to do this, instead of buffing your units with more toughness, kill of your enemy or turn into a monster, which are other uses for power dice?

Ramius4
26-06-2010, 20:49
... shall I quote the very message you were answering to?

But I suppose a pic will be worth a thousand words:

If by proving my point, you mean it's worth a thousand words then yes. It was:p They're much closer in size to a tarot card than a playing card;)


But would they give anything for a spell that moves multiple units within 6" of the sorcerer, a short but still random distance without option to steer the unit (go towards the closest visible enemy), but still without the option to actually charge? This I doubt. Why would you want to randomly stagger a small part of your army a few inches closer to the enemy? And why would you want to do this, instead of buffing your units with more toughness, kill of your enemy or turn into a monster, which are other uses for power dice?

After thinking more on this spell and also having tried 4 games of 8th now, I'd have to say I think I can see the intended use. Is it for the charge? No, of course not.

But being able to move multiple units directly into the face of the enemy can also be used to force combats that perhaps he doesn't want. The changed focus on what charges give you in 8th puts less importance on getting it yourself.

Moving in such a way can also prevent enemies from getting away from you. In essence, if they don't want to charge you on their turn, they might also not be able to avoid you on your own following turn.

Is it a great spell? No. But can it be useful? Maybe. I'm going to have to do Beastmen again for my next game, just to try it out. Hell, I'll even build my army around it. It'll probably get me tabled, but it'll be a good learning experience.

Memnos
28-06-2010, 09:29
Exactly. And the similarities to 8th edition changes can be seen. A S1 spell in the lore which becomes more usable now with the change of the wound table. A summoning spell, higher cast values; a lot of similarities to 8th stuff.

Except that there aren't two levels to every spell, which all the standard lores have.

It doesn't have any casting bonus(Such as Lore of Life, which heals someone every time a spell is cast), which every other 8th edition Spell Lore has.

You can argue that the magic is on par with every other Lore. It isn't, but you can argue it.

However, you can't argue that this is an 8th edition Lore. It's simply missing out on the basics every other Lore has.

GodlessM
28-06-2010, 10:17
Except that there aren't two levels to every spell, which all the standard lores have.

It doesn't have any casting bonus(Such as Lore of Life, which heals someone every time a spell is cast), which every other 8th edition Spell Lore has.

You can argue that the magic is on par with every other Lore. It isn't, but you can argue it.

However, you can't argue that this is an 8th edition Lore. It's simply missing out on the basics every other Lore has.

Except the author stating the book was written for 8th edition trumps all, so end of discussion. The addition of the lore attribute and scalable spells was left out intentionally so that the book could still function in 7th. BTW I also never said it was on par with the RBRB lores. What's with people on Warseer these days putting words in other people's mouths?

Memnos
28-06-2010, 11:25
Except the author stating the book was written for 8th edition trumps all, so end of discussion. The addition of the lore attribute and scalable spells was left out intentionally so that the book could still function in 7th. BTW I also never said it was on par with the RBRB lores. What's with people on Warseer these days putting words in other people's mouths?

You're right, Godless. You didn't say it was on par with all the other lores.

So that I'm not misquoting you: Can I confirm your argument? You're not saying it's not a terrible lore for 8th edition, you're just saying that it's an 8th edition lore since the author said it was? So your argument, if I can put it in a nutshell, is 'Yes, it doesn't have any of the flexibility of the current lores. Yes, it has worse spells. Yes, it doesn't have any advantages compared to the college lores. Yes, it doesn't have a Lore attribute or scalable spells like every other 8th edition lore. What it does have is the author saying it's an 8th edition lore'?

Is that your argument? If not, then I must have missed something. I'm sure that isn't your argument: That it was a lore meant for 7th edition, which is why it doesn't have what every 8th edition lore has, but that it's 8th edition anyway because the author said it was? If you could please state, unequivocally, your position so that I'm not putting words in your mouth, I would appreciate it.

I apologize. I must have misread your post. Obviously, what I posted as your argument is a fairly silly argument, so I'd love to hear what you're really arguing.

Ultimate Life Form
28-06-2010, 11:42
Personally I hate this idea of books 'being written for next edition', but when the author himself says so... I shall refer to it as 7th Edition in any case.

But where was ever explicitly stated that all Lores had to be on par? Beastmen are a bunch of retard hooligans from some nameless woods in the backwater provinces so it wouldn't come as a surprise to me if their magic is not as advanced and sophisticated as that of the civilized races.

Another one... I think few people would doubt that Lore of Vampires outclasses all 7th Edition book lores by far. So following your argumentation they're obviously not from the same edition? I can't quite follow you there...

GodlessM
28-06-2010, 12:09
You're right, Godless. You didn't say it was on par with all the other lores.

So that I'm not misquoting you: Can I confirm your argument? You're not saying it's not a terrible lore for 8th edition, you're just saying that it's an 8th edition lore since the author said it was? So your argument, if I can put it in a nutshell, is 'Yes, it doesn't have any of the flexibility of the current lores. Yes, it has worse spells. Yes, it doesn't have any advantages compared to the college lores. Yes, it doesn't have a Lore attribute or scalable spells like every other 8th edition lore. What it does have is the author saying it's an 8th edition lore'?

Is that your argument? If not, then I must have missed something. I'm sure that isn't your argument: That it was a lore meant for 7th edition, which is why it doesn't have what every 8th edition lore has, but that it's 8th edition anyway because the author said it was? If you could please state, unequivocally, your position so that I'm not putting words in your mouth, I would appreciate it.

I apologize. I must have misread your post. Obviously, what I posted as your argument is a fairly silly argument, so I'd love to hear what you're really arguing.

You obviously like arguing since you are arguing against a point I never made. I never even mentioned power level or usefulness in any of my posts. I only established that the foreshadowing of some of the 8th ed. lore styles could be seen in the Beastmen lore.

Ramius4
28-06-2010, 12:38
Exactly. And the similarities to 8th edition changes can be seen. A S1 spell in the lore which becomes more usable now with the change of the wound table. A summoning spell, higher cast values; a lot of similarities to 8th stuff.

This is a 'statement'.


So that I'm not misquoting you: Can I confirm your argument? You're not saying it's not a terrible lore for 8th edition, you're just saying that it's an 8th edition lore since the author said it was? So your argument, if I can put it in a nutshell, is 'Yes, it doesn't have any of the flexibility of the current lores. Yes, it has worse spells. Yes, it doesn't have any advantages compared to the college lores. Yes, it doesn't have a Lore attribute or scalable spells like every other 8th edition lore. What it does have is the author saying it's an 8th edition lore'?

Is that your argument? If not, then I must have missed something. I'm sure that isn't your argument: That it was a lore meant for 7th edition, which is why it doesn't have what every 8th edition lore has, but that it's 8th edition anyway because the author said it was? If you could please state, unequivocally, your position so that I'm not putting words in your mouth, I would appreciate it.

I apologize. I must have misread your post. Obviously, what I posted as your argument is a fairly silly argument, so I'd love to hear what you're really arguing.

This is an 'argument'.

Learn the difference. :p

Memnos
28-06-2010, 13:27
You obviously like arguing since you are arguing against a point I never made. I never even mentioned power level or usefulness in any of my posts. I only established that the foreshadowing of some of the 8th ed. lore styles could be seen in the Beastmen lore.

Perfect! All right. We'll go with this. Please tell me how the foreshadowing of some of the 8th ed. lore styles could be seen in the Beastmen lore. If you haven't mentioned power level or usefulness in any of your posts, please state exactly what your position is.

My position is that it isn't an 8th ed lore since it clearly doesn't have any of the hallmarks of an 8th ed lore.

Memnos
28-06-2010, 13:31
Dictionary.com's definition of argument:

5.
an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.



Except the author stating the book was written for 8th edition trumps all, so end of discussion. The addition of the lore attribute and scalable spells was left out intentionally so that the book could still function in 7th. BTW I also never said it was on par with the RBRB lores. What's with people on Warseer these days putting words in other people's mouths?

He is attempting to persuade that the book was written for 8th edition in this case. This is an argument, Ramius. Prior to stating something, it might be best to make certain you know the definition.

On topic: This lore is clearly inferior to all the collegiate lores for the reasons stated above and has none of the real hallmarks of 8th edition lores that are in the main rulebook. This means it needs to be 'updated' to 8th edition, since it's much closer to 7th edition rules.


This is a 'statement'.



This is an 'argument'.

Learn the difference. :p

loveless
28-06-2010, 13:54
Okay, someone needs to go get the quote from the author that says Beastmen is an 8th edition book, and then let this back-and-forth die the horrible death it deserves.


---

On-topic question:

The cards are notably massive - is there a standard size protector that will cover these, or am I going to have to do some sort of crazy DIY fix to make it work?

Ramius4
28-06-2010, 13:59
He is attempting to persuade that the book was written for 8th edition in this case. This is an argument, Ramius. Prior to stating something, it might be best to make certain you know the definition.


Except that this...


And the similarities to 8th edition changes can be seen. A S1 spell in the lore which becomes more usable now with the change of the wound table. A summoning spell, higher cast values; a lot of similarities to 8th stuff.

Is how he began, and it is indeed a statement and not an argument. Subsequently, you began to call him out for 'arguing'. The latter paragraph quoted by you was only after you had turned it into one.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nor does the Beastmen's Lore of the Wild.

GodlessM
28-06-2010, 16:32
The cards are notably massive - is there a standard size protector that will cover these, or am I going to have to do some sort of crazy DIY fix to make it work?

I've never seen any deck protectors that size.

Memnos
28-06-2010, 16:52
Except that this...



Is how he began, and it is indeed a statement and not an argument. Subsequently, you began to call him out for 'arguing'. The latter paragraph quoted by you was only after you had turned it into one.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nor does the Beastmen's Lore of the Wild.

I never 'Called him out' for arguing. I said that he had an argument. Saying that someone has 'An argument' is not an attack or a 'Calling out'. An argument is simply a statement or position intended to convince someone else of said position.

You're right, however, in that it isn't relevant. What is relevant is Lore of the Wild. Can anyone show where the developer said it was an 8th edition Lore?

GodlessM
28-06-2010, 16:56
Interview in White Dwarf. Sometime around February.

Fredox
28-06-2010, 17:29
I've never seen any deck protectors that size.

Might have to borrow the work laminator then :)

LaughinGremlin
28-06-2010, 19:22
To expect Skaven / Beastmen lores and all future army-specific lores to have an innate effect every time a spell is successfully cast, is a bit presumptuous and ridiculous.

Back to the price topic:
People mention packaging and possibly the increasing price of wood pulp before they ever mention PAYING THE ARTIST. Most people who aren't artists or musicians expect these "services" for free I suppose. It takes a lot of time to perfect your skill at an instrument, long before a particular masterpiece is begun. People like to be paid by the hour, but they want their music and other art for free.

loveless
28-06-2010, 19:26
Back to the price topic:
People mention packaging and possibly the increasing price of wood pulp before they ever mention PAYING THE ARTIST. Most people who aren't artists or musicians expect these "services" for free I suppose. It takes a lot of time to perfect your skill at an instrument, long before a particular masterpiece is begun. People like to be paid by the hour, but they want their music and other art for free.

From what I've seen, most if not all of the artwork used on the cards is recycled, just recolored a bit.

Though I suppose we have to pay thousands of dollars to the intern who threw a purple shade over the artwork of that Death Wizard to get it prepped for its new life as Card Art. :angel:

Were it new art, I'd agree with you. However, I'm sure the artist in question has already been compensated fairly.

ted1138
28-06-2010, 21:24
Was in a local toy shop today and picked up the Warhammer Battle Magic deck, I didn't think they were coming out for another fortnight...

And has anyone else considered that GW will eventually release all these little sets of cards as one bigger set sometime?

Ramius4
28-06-2010, 21:42
And has anyone else considered that GW will eventually release all these little sets of cards as one bigger set sometime?

Nope, they make a much bigger profit when sold individually.

strewart
29-06-2010, 01:54
Does it matter if the Beast lore was technically designed for 7th or 8th? No other book is getting updated 8th ed rules until they get a new book, this has always been the case I don't see how Beasts is any different. It sits on the fence between 7th and 8th.

Ramius4
29-06-2010, 02:17
No, it doesn't matter at all.

LaughinGremlin
30-06-2010, 02:38
Yes, art gets "recycled" or used repeatedly because it is expensive, which is the point I'm trying to make. I would have been surprised if GW used ANY new art for these cards, and if they did, they would be surely used again in a book of sorts.
I have a buddy who makes d20 books to sell on-line AND the tangibly bound hard copies as well, and he says that the most expensive cost is buying the rights to artwork.

Even further off topic: If you want to make a cheap house, include less windows. :D