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PrivateLucky
17-06-2010, 15:06
Hi, I was just thinking about what makes a player good. I'm not talking about if he/she knows the newest internet list, or if he/she spams as much melta as possible. I'm talking about non list things. I will start.

A good player...

Never forgets to move/shoot/run/assault with every unit if he/she needs to

Knows most/all of the rules in the codex he/she is playing

Is a good sport

Knows how the units he/she uses synergize together

Knows most of the rules in the main rule book (I have been playing for a while and it is near impossible to know alllll the rules in there)


Feel free to contribute.

Erwos
17-06-2010, 15:08
Brings all your stuff to the game. I don't mind lending you my tape measure and templates, but it does slow things down.

PrivateLucky
17-06-2010, 15:10
I don't care if you smoke cigarettes but I do mind if you take three 10 min breaks to smoke in one game. It is inconsiderate. Time is money friend!

Go to the bathroom before you start a game. Trust me

Finnith
17-06-2010, 15:14
Gets a round in after the game and/or brings some snacks and is willing to share. Not knowing the rules/army well, using a very tough army, going over the points limit by 1-2 points etc is very easy to forgive if mini doughnuts, jaffa cakes and beer are around.

Bunnahabhain
17-06-2010, 15:16
Be on time! If you say 7, be there for 7!

Sai-Lauren
17-06-2010, 15:26
Don't write your army list down on the back of a cigarette packet - at the very least be able to show all options and have page references back to the unit in the codex so you don't have to spend ages looking things up. If you can, write the whole thing out, list, stats, special rules and all, in a word processor and print it. And carry your rulebooks, army list, codex, dice, tape measure and anything else you think you'll need.

If you need to create yourself little aide-memoirs, do so - whether it's a list of steps in the turn, or labels to say "unit ran" or "gone to ground" or similar. You should never have to ask to go back and do something out of sequence.

If you do eat snacks whilst playing, then wash your hands afterwards.

If you're going to take notes as the game goes on, learn shorthand.

Always be polite and courteous, and say thanks for the game at the end of it, even if you got utterly thrashed.

Don't insult your opponents army list, colour scheme, modelling or painting skills.

And remember that you only ever have to play someone once, so if they're a complete pain in the backside, don't lower yourself to their level.

DaSpaceAsians
17-06-2010, 15:33
-Be nice
-Proxy as least as possible
-Bring your stuff
-Know your rules but don't be a rules lawyer
-Write your list clearly
-Remember it's only a game
-Don't cheat
-Don't cry if you lose
-Don't gloat if you win

LonelyPath
17-06-2010, 15:39
Provide a roster for your army in case your opponent wishes to see it.
Supply alternate rosters and take additional models in case you have to play a larger game or run a different list.
Be polite and courtious at all times, treat others how you expect to be treated.
Do not leave the table when your opponent s having their turn (I smoke but always go for one between turns!).
Supply all of the books, dice, templates, etc. that you will be needing and take spare templates and so forth just in case.
If you are being beaten into the ground, take it in good humour and learn to laugh it off.
Learn the "Rule of Dice" rule (if you can't decide on how a rule is played and now referee is at hand, roll off to see who's right).

wickedvoodoo
17-06-2010, 15:42
I think that in a competative sense, the key to good play is simply to know what each of your units is good at doing, and then to make sure they get to do it.

In a general sense, this


Be on time! If you say 7, be there for 7!

this


Brings all your stuff to the game.

and this


-Remember it's only a game

Bestaltan
17-06-2010, 15:43
A good player...


Is a good sport


That pretty much sums it up. I can be as competitive as the next guy, but it BUGS me that sportsmanship scores have gone with the advent of 5th edition. There was a reason for those scores in tournaments, guys.

Axeman1n
17-06-2010, 15:44
A good player ...

Plays quickly.
Knows the rules.
Knows distances.
Can Identify nearly all wargear on sight.
Brings Objective markers.
Brings extra copies of their army list.
Brings Vehicle damage markers.
Brings an extra drink/food.
Doesn't care who wins.
Has a well thought out story for their army.
Doesn't complain about bad die rolls.

Erwos
17-06-2010, 16:22
Oh, and that unstated cardinal rule: don't touch anyone's miniatures without their permission.

ColShaw
17-06-2010, 16:59
A good player:

1) Shows up at the agreed time.
2) Has at least made an effort to make his/her army presentable (fully assembled, hopefully painted at least a little).
3) Has an army list written up in advance (I HATE waiting to start a game half an hour while my opponent writes up a whole new list).
4) Knows the base rules of the game.
5) Knows the rules of his/her own army, and is at least passing familiar with other armies.
6) Doesn't lose his/her temper when things go poorly on the tabletop.
7) Has a sense of humor (doubly so if playing Orks).
8) Doesn't try to twist vague wordings to gain slight advantages.
9) Follows the rules.
10) Is there to have a good time, whatever else may happen.

Captain prophet
17-06-2010, 18:53
There is only really one thing that I really care about in a game and thats Honesty.

For example I played a guy a few weeks ago and before anything was set up he said he was just getting into the game but he'd read the rule book basically cover to cover and was fairly confident in his knowledge of the rules.

We had a 1 or 2 slow moments each turn but I didn't care at all cause he was Honest.

J.D

woodfin
17-06-2010, 18:57
Don't play Dark Eldar.

Warhound of Lustria
17-06-2010, 21:12
This:


Oh, and that unstated cardinal rule: don't touch anyone's miniatures without their permission.

especially not while you're eating crisps or other food that is high on fat and makes your hands dirty :shifty:

Helicon_One
17-06-2010, 21:26
Good manners.

AFnord
17-06-2010, 21:28
Is able to read the battlefield on the fly. This is really one of the major "in game" things that a good player is able to do.

3 0f 6
17-06-2010, 21:42
Doesn't need tips on how to be a good player?

MystheDevourer
17-06-2010, 21:45
Sportsmanship in general. If you can not behave like someone who enjoys the game regardless of the situation why play?

As stated be able to "read" the flow. Knowing how you are doing vs how your opponet is doing is essential.

Deployment. I have seen it over and over again, players wasting shots, giving cover saves, wasting reach and etc over and over again. It will take time to learn deployment but that is how the game works.

Ask for advice. Asking makes people think which helps them and you at the same time.
(Asking can lead to a conversation that can lead to friendships)

Remember, not everyone is a great player starting. Some of the best worked hard to be the best!

enygma7
17-06-2010, 22:10
Competetively, good players tend to be people who don't try to win in the list writing stage by using a bent netlist as a crutch but instead develope a good tactical understanding through frequent use of a balanced army. If they then go on to use a bent netlist they can be terrifying :)

Person wise, someone who is both a good loser (i.e. doesn't guilt trip you for winning) and a good winner. In my experience most people are good winners, but good losing is a skill that people learn with maturity.

jsullivanlaw
17-06-2010, 22:18
That pretty much sums it up. I can be as competitive as the next guy, but it BUGS me that sportsmanship scores have gone with the advent of 5th edition. There was a reason for those scores in tournaments, guys.

The sportsmanship scores in tournaments were always a joke. People would all give the max points or if they really wanted to win at all costs, would lowball people for no reason. One of my friends had a GT tournament title taken away for allegedly cheating (based on some fuzzy out of context cell phone videos).....This included his title for Best Sportmanship...

Coltaine
17-06-2010, 22:19
Not having to be coached through the turns.
Knowing the main rules and your own army rules at the least.
Shouts the session - its always better wasted =P

Astraeos
17-06-2010, 22:33
Always enjoy the game, take the highs with the lows and don't get angry when things don't go your way.
I always joke when I fire my Long Fang's plasma cannons, stupid blast scatter!

LonelyPath
17-06-2010, 23:25
This comes under sportsmanship.

Discussing the game with your opponent once it is over. Congratulating eachther on some good use of tactics and suggesting alternate approaches to how somethings might have been done differently. It helps you both gro and become better players. But first, always congratulate them on what they did well, then offer advice and optional approaches if they want it.

Xyrex
17-06-2010, 23:47
Gets a round in after the game and/or brings some snacks and is willing to share. Not knowing the rules/army well, using a very tough army, going over the points limit by 1-2 points etc is very easy to forgive if mini doughnuts, jaffa cakes and beer are around.

So are jaffa cakes technically cannibalistic? (Stargate fans will get it)

Garven Dreis
17-06-2010, 23:51
I'm pretty laid back, but honestly, a good player is a person who DOESN'T touch my models. Especially my Fellblade. Last game I played, some little kid not only broke the aerial, but didn't tell me. I'd be okay if they admitted it, but not telling me is just the limit.

Hunger
17-06-2010, 23:52
Taking your losses and poor luck with good humour - it is galling to lose your deathstar close combat monster to a flukey shot, or lose 50% or your guard foot squads in one round of merciless shooting, or miss everything with all nine frag missiles, but these things happen.

Sulking because you lost your Terminators, complaining about your bad luck or your opponents good luck, playing like you don't care anymore or conceding the game is insulting to your opponent - at least give him the satisfaction of wiping the floor with you, congratulate him on his generalship, shake his hand and promise him that he'll eat the dust next time you play.

Axeman1n
18-06-2010, 05:10
Taking your losses and poor luck with good humour - it is galling to lose your deathstar close combat monster to a flukey shot, or lose 50% or your guard foot squads in one round of merciless shooting, or miss everything with all nine frag missiles, but these things happen.

Sulking because you lost your Terminators, complaining about your bad luck or your opponents good luck, playing like you don't care anymore or conceding the game is insulting to your opponent - at least give him the satisfaction of wiping the floor with you, congratulate him on his generalship, shake his hand and promise him that he'll eat the dust next time you play.

Well said. No one wants to play a defeatist. Never give up, otherwise you rob your opponent of his victory.

eyescrossed
18-06-2010, 08:56
Taking your losses and poor luck with good humour - it is galling to lose your deathstar close combat monster to a flukey shot, or lose 50% or your guard foot squads in one round of merciless shooting, or miss everything with all nine frag missiles, but these things happen.

Sulking because you lost your Terminators, complaining about your bad luck or your opponents good luck, playing like you don't care anymore or conceding the game is insulting to your opponent - at least give him the satisfaction of wiping the floor with you, congratulate him on his generalship, shake his hand and promise him that he'll eat the dust next time you play.

I have had far too much experience with this, years in the past.

AFnord
18-06-2010, 09:16
Doesn't need tips on how to be a good player?
I strongly disagree with this. A good player is able to ignore his pride, he/she knows where his faults lies, and is not afraid of asking for guidance in order to become a better player.

Sai-Lauren
18-06-2010, 09:24
So are jaffa cakes technically cannibalistic? (Stargate fans will get it)

Kree :D


Taking your losses and poor luck with good humour - it is galling to lose your deathstar close combat monster to a flukey shot, or lose 50% or your guard foot squads in one round of merciless shooting, or miss everything with all nine frag missiles, but these things happen.

Sulking because you lost your Terminators, complaining about your bad luck or your opponents good luck, playing like you don't care anymore or conceding the game is insulting to your opponent - at least give him the satisfaction of wiping the floor with you, congratulate him on his generalship, shake his hand and promise him that he'll eat the dust next time you play.

I'd actually say somewhere in between, you can certainly be disappointed if you lose your game winning/ brand new/ favourite unit, but don't sulk, and certainly don't act like it's nothing - that just makes you look odd (it can also play into your opponent psychology, making him think he's got you on the ropes and therefore possibly becoming overzealous, so be careful). But I agree on playing to the end, not walking off in a sulk.

A few more:

Switch your mobile off unless it absolutely has to be on - in which case it should be on silent (and yes, Crackberry's and iPose's do have off switches - although most users don't seem to be aware of that simple fact :rolleyes: ). How would you feel if your opponent is more interested in arranging his social life than playing you?

Everything outside of the game in moderation - jokes are ok, but not every 30 seconds. If you want to say "Incoming!" on the first artillery shot of the game, or make explosion sound effects, then fine, do it once, but no more after that.

Afterwards, it's ok to compare notes, say what you feared him doing, and ask why he didn't if he didn't, but your opponent probably doesn't need an action replay of the game, even if he won.

Giganthrax
18-06-2010, 09:40
Lots of good things have already been said in this threat.

What also makes a good player is the ability to accept that everything in the game has counters and that, while some of the units/armies are better then others, few of the matchups are really one-sided.

There's nothing more disgusting then when a scrub is losing and starts whining and moaning about "overpowered th/ss terminators", "being out of luck", "his opponent being too lucky", "his opponent's list/army being easy to play", etc.

If you're loosing, suck it up and lose like a man.

MetalGecko23
18-06-2010, 09:52
I'd actually say somewhere in between, you can certainly be disappointed if you lose your game winning/ brand new/ favourite unit, but don't sulk, and certainly don't act like it's nothing - that just makes you look odd (it can also play into your opponent psychology, making him think he's got you on the ropes and therefore possibly becoming overzealous, so be careful). But I agree on playing to the end, not walking off in a sulk.
I love using psychology to get my opponents to do things they shouldn't do. Does that make me a poor sportsmen? While I don't use any insulting tactics I do often pretend to be hurt when I lose what appears to be a rather important unit (trick is my lists are designed so that all units are of equal use to victory) and I am looking for the opponent to over committ to things. I don't think its really unsportsmen to screw with your opponents head. Reading your opponent and controlling the pace of the game is more often then not the reason you won the game.



Switch your mobile off unless it absolutely has to be on - in which case it should be on silent (and yes, Crackberry's and iPose's do have off switches - although most users don't seem to be aware of that simple fact :rolleyes: ). How would you feel if your opponent is more interested in arranging his social life than playing you?

I think thats is a bit much really. 40k games can be long and drawn out, which translates to a good chunk of time your phone would be off. Now half of the reason I have a cell phone is in case of emergencies and people need to get a hold of me, the other being girls. Both are more important then 40k (ok girls can wait once and a while) but still I plan for the worst (never have been disappointed because of it) and will not have my phone off for the sake of some ones concentration on a board game.

How would I feel? Ok if I won, annoyed if I lost. Though winning would be the most likely outcome (see control of games pace).

Netfreakk
18-06-2010, 10:30
All I want is an opponent that has an actual army, knows the rules, stays at the table (not wandering around when it's not their turn or when they're not rolling dice), doesn't waste time on purpose, and takes a shower.

All else is secondary.

TIps on being a good tactician:

Learn from your mistakes and do a debriefing after the game with your opponent. Talking about the game helps you remember your mistakes, how you could have played it differently, and helps you learn your opponent's army better as well.

Simo429
18-06-2010, 10:43
Oh, and that unstated cardinal rule: don't touch anyone's miniatures without their permission.

That is a definite

It is plain rude

If we are in combat over your side of the table by all means ask if I want you to do the pile in but don't automatically do it

sigur
18-06-2010, 11:01
Oh yeah, that was the first thing I wanted to mention as the first rule as well: Don't touch another person's minis without asking.

Apart from that:
.) You shall be nice.
.) You shall be patient.
.) You shall be on time and you shall plan ahead so that there is enough time for a full game.
.) You shall not cheat or be bent on interpreting rules to your advantage.
.) You shall adapt to the gaming situation to ensure a good game for both sides, i.e. if you see that you're wiping the floor with the other guy, make some decisions that don't necessarily help you win but make for added awesomiticity. Adapt to a level of good-natured ribbing that is enjoyed by all.
.) There shall be beer but no snacks.
.) You shall bring all the stuff you need to play.
.) You shall bring a prepared army list.
.) Thou shalt not use that weird house rule of not disclosing what's in a transport for it doth annoy me. :p
.) You shall pay attention and not wander off.
.) You shall tell your annoying friends/these weird kids that hang around the gaming place ALL THE TIME and therefore think that they get away with being annoynig not to keep on talking all the time. Remember, despite some definitions of the term, annoying them on a regular basis does not equal "being friends with the staff".

Corax
18-06-2010, 14:39
Is it really that hard to be a decent human?

For what its worth, I think there are two cardinal rules:
1. Know what you are doing (as in know the rules).
2. Don't be a jerk. (This includes whining, cheating, wandering off, etc.)

Lord Aaron
18-06-2010, 15:30
Just remember two things.

1. Common sense is very uncommon.

2. See # 1.

Hunger
18-06-2010, 16:55
I'd actually say somewhere in between, you can certainly be disappointed if you lose your game winning/ brand new/ favourite unit, but don't sulk, and certainly don't act like it's nothing - that just makes you look odd (it can also play into your opponent psychology, making him think he's got you on the ropes and therefore possibly becoming overzealous, so be careful). But I agree on playing to the end, not walking off in a sulk.

Oh, I quite agree - you can be disappointed that you lost your Terminators, tell your opponent that they were a crucial part of your plan, that the loss is really going to hurt you and that next turn is going to be tough for you - but don't huff about it or blame luck for your opponent's success.

And most importantly, do not sit and silently brood over it from the other side of the table. This behaviour is guaranteed to turn the game into a miserable, uncomfortable exercise in dice rolling, and will rob your opponent of any satisfaction he's entitled to for beating you.

The best thing you can do if you feel like this is to analyse your mistakes and talk to your opponent as he's taking his turn. Remember that luck does play a part in the game, but much of your skill as a player stems from your ability to set up situations that mitigate your own bad luck and magnify your opponent's. If luck played such a big role in your battleplan as to cost you the game, then you need to come up with a battleplan that doesn't rely so heavily on it.

Erwos
18-06-2010, 17:17
If we are in combat over your side of the table by all means ask if I want you to do the pile in but don't automatically do it
And, despite my bringing up that golden rule, I generally do ask my opponent to do just that, especially in a crowded gaming situation. The worst is when it's some random person picking it up to take a peek - just ask first, dammit. I'll say yes (probably).

Here's a good one from one of my other threads: if you've gotta stop at a particular time, discuss that with your opponent up front.

Above all, always remember that it's just a game. If you lose a squad or a game, learn from your mistake, and/or laugh at your bad luck and opponent's lucky break! You learn much more from losing than winning, IMHO.

MystheDevourer
18-06-2010, 20:33
I love using psychology to get my opponents to do things they shouldn't do. Does that make me a poor sportsmen? While I don't use any insulting tactics I do often pretend to be hurt when I lose what appears to be a rather important unit (trick is my lists are designed so that all units are of equal use to victory) and I am looking for the opponent to over committ to things. I don't think its really unsportsmen to screw with your opponents head. Reading your opponent and controlling the pace of the game is more often then not the reason you won the game.

Psdycology is almost a mainstay of the game. If you can mess up the opponet and make them rethink things then you will save yourself a TON of hassle! Remember this is a game of war and war ALWAYS has its Psycological aspects to it.

carldooley
18-06-2010, 21:11
a couple things people have missed:
1. Take a shower\bath before going somewhere for\hosting a game.
2. Deodorant isn't just for heavy labor.
3. Be willing to be silent on your opponent's turns. Allow your opponent to make his\her own decisions and\or mistakes.

4. (these two are only for people like me who bring oodles of extra models and lists to a tournament) don't ask your opponents which list they would like to play - they will invariably either say they don't care or they will never select the list that you 'want' them to choose.

5. If you are loaning an army to another gamer, don't freak if they break a model or two.