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kiron
17-06-2010, 16:48
How does the BRB state magic dispel dice redistribution, does it ONLY mention wizards? Aka wizards don't generate dispel dice anymore but only add to dispelling value but warrior priest/archlectors do because they are not wizards and not affected by the new rule change.

Now I play empire, and in 3k battles with lord/hero alotment limit at 750 points, what's stopping me from taking 3 archlectors w/ knight gear (155 each) and a lvl 4 mage w/ VHS and rod of power for 740 points to get +6 dispel dice and +4 to dispel? Doesn't that just neuter any magic in opposition army since I should have equal or more dispel dice than my opponent's power dice? Also with the ability to switch power/dispel dice would that not create another neuter enemy magic army (I can see it almost autowin against vampire)? Throw in 2 steam tanks and a grand battery (3 of cannons and mortars, 1 rocket) and u still for 900 to spare on troops (mean knights *cough*) and voila, order of the holy cannonball is created without worrying too much of enemy's lore of metal will rip through the knights.

Tarliyn
17-06-2010, 17:36
well as it stands now without seeing the army faq yes you could make that army.

The problem is that army does very little except for ranged and shut down magic.

While warmachines are getting a buff everything is moving faster in 8th ed. You won't have as much time to shoot, that is why all the shooting has grown more effective.

Knights alone also won't hold up well on there own anymore either.

You have the start of an idea for an army but may need to fiddle around with what you take a bit more to make it as effective as you are implying you want it to be.

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 17:39
I have been wondering for quite some time now if the -1 to cast from Balefire Carts is still worth it...

Well I guess it depends on overall magic balance. It will definitely be more efficient damping multiple small casters rather than a caster lord... but that's also really the way it should be.

kiron
17-06-2010, 18:01
well as it stands now without seeing the army faq yes you could make that army.

The problem is that army does very little except for ranged and shut down magic.

While warmachines are getting a buff everything is moving faster in 8th ed. You won't have as much time to shoot, that is why all the shooting has grown more effective.

Knights alone also won't hold up well on there own anymore either.

You have the start of an idea for an army but may need to fiddle around with what you take a bit more to make it as effective as you are implying you want it to be.

2 steam tanks (excellent speed bump) and 900 points of knights can stop pretty much anything...in a small radius, it works if playing fortress style...especially with a grand battery and almost immunity to magic. Not to mention, you cancel out about 200-400 points of opponents points which they spend on magic themselves.

kaintxu
17-06-2010, 18:27
I really doubt archlector will still generate 2 dispell dice, it will be as wizards, they wont generate, if not it will be kinda unfair

kiron
17-06-2010, 18:33
I really doubt archlector will still generate 2 dispell dice, it will be as wizards, they wont generate, if not it will be kinda unfair

But then archlectors will become 50 points overcosted (and now we have to use powerdice to power their bound spells which use to be FREE!), at least wizards can cast spells and + to dispel/cast depending on level and is uniform across all armies.

Tarliyn
17-06-2010, 18:35
well in order for the knights to be able to ranks, and therefor win any combats. that have to be 10 large. With just 10 large if you loose even one you no longer break ranks so you will probably want them 15 large. If I remember correctly unit of empire knights 15 large with a banner and musician cost are around 375 points. So you can afford two units of knights capable of breaking ranks plus maybe a small unit another small unit of knights that can't break ranks.

The premise of the army is sound just gotta work out the details.

kaintxu
17-06-2010, 18:36
50 points overcosted why? then all mages would be overcosted for the same reason.

They will get faqued but i pretty much doubt they generate extra dispell dice, if its like that empire will be the best army

Don't count on it, i would bet that goes away

Tarliyn
17-06-2010, 18:40
50 points overcosted why? then all mages would be overcosted for the same reason.

They will get faqued but i pretty much doubt they generate extra dispell dice, if its like that empire will be the best army

Don't count on it, i would bet that goes away


I wound wager the opposite there are plenty of items in the game that generate abusrd amounts of dispel dice and I doubt they will al get faqed away.

O&G Spirirt Totems
Lizards save power become dispel dice item
Empires save dice for different phases magic item
High Elves, O&G, and Dwarfs have an item that steals a powerdice and gives it to you as a dispel dice.

All those items are in the same vein as a warrior priests dd generation and they aren't all going to get faqed away.

Being able to shut down magic doesn't equal being the strongest army either. There are plenty of armies now that can shut down magic completely I don't see why that ability would go away in 8th.

kaintxu
17-06-2010, 18:48
I mean, items that allow you to save dice from phase to phase i guess will still remain ok, what i doubt is archlector will generate 2 extra dispell dice.

They are not limited to 1, the magic items are, so i guess its diferent.

I ment they are the strongest army because, they can dominate magic, they can dominate dispersion, they can dominate shoot, and they cant dominate HtH but they have enough cheap bodies to hold up combat

I gues the empires staff to save dice will remain the same, same for diadem of power for LM, and i guess same for O&G, still not for characters generating dispell.

Its just my guess, but im pretty sure

kiron
06-07-2010, 18:51
For arguments sake, IF archlectors did keep their dispel dice, how would most army face the 3k list? I guess u can just take teclis and lore of metal spam :C

GodlessM
06-07-2010, 19:06
Well in the latest WD Matt Ward did mention how Warrior Priests generate DD, and it is how it is written in the Empire book, and it does make sense, and it is his game, so I doubt it will get FAQ'ed.

stiggie
06-07-2010, 19:17
ive played against a hell of a lot of cheesey opponents in 7th and i expect to in 8th and getting +6DD and +4 to dispel doesnt really sound that bad?

dont forget if your using a lvl4 mage u get +4 to cast anyway plus u get an extra D6 power dice plus theres chanelling.. and thats before whatever other rules you have (master of the black arts, tzeentch, law of death etc)

i know its very unlikely but u can make a VC list that guarantees u have 12PD a turn..

u can have a slann that rolls to cast a spell as normal then can add 2D6 onto it if you didnt roll as hig as you wanted.

u can have a tzeentch scorcerer lord with +6 to cast +D3 +D6..

id welcome going against a list like that tbh :)

Walgis
06-07-2010, 19:28
u can have a slann that rolls to cast a spell as normal then can add 2D6 onto it if you didnt roll as hig as you wanted.

and hows that work? i play LM but im not blind or i could be, please tell me how do you get that much to your casting?

stiggie
06-07-2010, 19:42
you get +D6 because of becalming cogitiations (i think its called?) and theres a magic item in 8th BRB that grants +D6 also

Walgis
06-07-2010, 20:17
thats only one use only. thats way worse than 12 pd every turn like vamps.... ofcourse they need them but still. i hope everything works out, but now it seem it wont and we will get even more power lists.

Odominus
06-07-2010, 20:24
Can a Slan throw 6PD at a spell then use his xtra dice roll for a max of 7 dice rolled?

Give the slann the cupped hands and the new arcane item powerscroll, watch him throw a unstoppable Comet hitting at minimum str6 and then shifting the Miscast to your level 4 mage sitting comfortably in his big unit of saurus spears, etc.

Hmm..What??

If your Slann is on a hill then its almost impossible to hide your Wiz Lord from the Slann's LOS...

Korraz
06-07-2010, 21:35
50 points overcosted why? then all mages would be overcosted for the same reason.

They will get faqued but i pretty much doubt they generate extra dispell dice, if its like that empire will be the best army

Don't count on it, i would bet that goes away

You realize mages add their level to the dispell-attemt and priests and lectors , like rune priests, don't have that?

GodlessM
07-07-2010, 00:54
Can a Slan throw 6PD at a spell then use his xtra dice roll for a max of 7 dice rolled?


Nope he can't, it's in the Lizardmen errata.

kiron
10-07-2010, 15:44
well, we now know priests get to keep the dispel dice...so this army is now officially viable and with tanks getting T10 boost too :P