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Schelle
17-06-2010, 21:44
Soooooooooo...I currently use a unit of a 100 zombies whenever I play with my VC army and have to say that they are a brilliant cheap-as-chips speed bump. Add in a corpse cart to back them up and anything which is stupid enough to charge this ends up getting stuck for the rest of the game.

Could some one help me out regarding my 100 zombie unit and the 8th edition changes? I know they will be stubborn due to the horde rule, but what else lies in store for my precious undead?

Thanks:D

rtunian
17-06-2010, 21:49
eh... stubborn and horde are different. horde is 10 wide gives you an extra rank to fight (so 3 instead of 2). stubborn that you're thinking of is called steadfast and is have more ranks than enemy = stubborn. idk what happens if both sides have same # ranks though.

CaliforniaGamer
17-06-2010, 21:55
eh... stubborn and horde are different. horde is 10 wide gives you an extra rank to fight (so 3 instead of 2). stubborn that you're thinking of is called steadfast and is have more ranks than enemy = stubborn. idk what happens if both sides have same # ranks though.

Both sides have = ranks, no one is steadfast
in multicombat, each unit is resolved individually meaning an opponent who wins facing 2 units, 1 of those units might be steadfast while the other is not.

The crazy thing is even if your ranks are disrupted (ie broken) by a rear/flank charge by another ranked unit, you can be still be steadfast. :wtf:That I really dont care for.

Schelle
17-06-2010, 21:56
I see...thanks rtunian! Well, my zombie unit is 10 by 10, so 10 wide and 10 ranks. So if the corpse cart gets them to strike first that means we potentially have 30 attacks to look forward to...in a perfect world of course...and stubborn!!! Unless they are facing a horde of a 100 Gnoblars.

Tae
17-06-2010, 21:58
Currently stubborn zombies wont help you one bit - since you don't take break tests. If you lose, the number of points you lose by is the number of wounds the unit takes. Stubborn has no impact on this.

Will be interesting to see if the Errata changes this.

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 21:58
Can you tell me what you want with stubborn zombies?

necroncell2131
17-06-2010, 22:01
Even if the opponent fails the fear test you will be hitting them on 4s. Zombies arent worth the points from a metagame standpoint but if you like them take them.

Leogun_91
17-06-2010, 22:06
Even if the opponent fails the fear test you will be hitting them on 4s. Zombies arent worth the points from a metagame standpoint but if you like them take them.They are still one of the best tarpits in existance, 100 of them is 400pts and they will hold their ground. The fact that they die doesn't matter too much as their opponents won't get anywhere. Their tarpittyness will be reduced now however as more killing will take place.

Schelle
17-06-2010, 22:08
Well...stubborn sounds so much more posh :D:D:D

I know guys, you are all right of course, why stubborn zombies? :wtf: Don't know really, it won't change anything I guess...oh well, at least they are getting the extra attack due to the horde rule:angel:

Leogun_91
17-06-2010, 22:11
Stubborn isn't important, the good thing is that your opponent doesn't get stubborn (unless he has more then 10 ranks) which is useful when a dangerous unit flanks him.

CaliforniaGamer
17-06-2010, 22:14
Can you tell me what you want with stubborn zombies?

likely the errata will be steadfast undead with crumble who lose=take no additional casualities from combat regardless of CR modifiers.

TroyJPerez
17-06-2010, 22:14
100 zombie unit will be awsome!!!! If you can keep raising them and never let the unit die you will keep full points for it even if its under half, and it can hold off a unit for practically the entire game!

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 22:15
They are still one of the best tarpits in existance, 100 of them is 400pts and they will hold their ground. The fact that they die doesn't matter too much as their opponents won't get anywhere. Their tarpittyness will be reduced now however as more killing will take place.

Unless they get spelled to death. For example, "every model in the unit takes a toughness test or suffers a wound, no save."

or, "Every model in the unit suffers a strength 2 hit, no save".

or, the Fiery Cage- D6 S4 hits, and when you move, every model in the unit takes a S4 hit.

Do we see a theme building here?

rtunian
17-06-2010, 22:21
the good thing is that your opponent doesn't get stubborn

that's a bingo!

Schelle
17-06-2010, 22:25
Damn Paraelix, you just ruined my speed bump LOL

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 22:26
Gladly Vampires should have plenty of anti-magic, and who would want to waste dice on a stupid zombie block anyway?

Tae
17-06-2010, 22:48
Gladly Vampires should have plenty of anti-magic, and who would want to waste dice on a stupid zombie block anyway?

Exactly. And let's be honest a block of 100 zombies is hardly going to sneak up on anyone.

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 22:51
I suppose it would go well with the Black Coach. Just suck the dice outta them!

I'm definitely considering making this an anti-magic staple in my army now that the enemy is guaranteed to have a lot of tasty dice for it to leech.

Novrain
17-06-2010, 22:52
you mean that 400pt stupid zombie block that could be shafted by just one spell?

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 22:58
Gladly Vampires should have plenty of anti-magic, and who would want to waste dice on a stupid zombie block anyway?

It was how many hundred pts? Thwarted by a single spell cast during a single phase of a 6 turn game, by a model whose total point value is less than half?

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 23:05
Neither of these spells will istantly destroy the unit. To achieve that you have to cast three, four, five times at it while the Vampire will be busy raising numbers, all the while the rest of his army slices you to mincemeat. If I would be facing 100 Zombies on one flank and 5 Blood Knights on the other I know where my casting priority would lie.

madden
17-06-2010, 23:09
But the spells mentioned are fairly high level to cast and a double six you go boom as well not good if you have plans for that caracter plus if 1 survives he can just reraise them or raise a whole unit somewhere else potentionaly worse for you, something to think on during the game.

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 23:09
Let us go with Fire Cage. D6 S4... Lets say I get 3 hits. 2 wounds. 2 Zombies dead.

The remaining 98 Zombies move in the next phase, 98 S4 hits. Approx 17 Zombies survive.

17 Zombies is far more manageable that 100, and any attempts to raise more zombies into that unit are attempts not being made on other units or casting attempts.

And, before you go and mention it yourself... If, in the course of casting my spell at the unit of 100 zombies, my wizard explodes horribly and takes out either his unit or all my other casters... I will be LOLing with the best of them.

EDIT- LOL again... Mathhammered as though Zombies were T3 >_>

Ultimate Life Form
17-06-2010, 23:11
And, before you go and mention it yourself... If, in the course of casting my spell at the unit of 100 zombies, my wizard explodes horribly and takes out either his unit or all my other casters... I will be LOLing with the best of them.

Strange, I assumed you would mention the far more important point that the Zombies aren't forced to move at all. :rolleyes:

Still you need to kill every single Zombie to get points for the unit and that is hard to achieve by Magic alone.

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 23:13
Strange, I assumed you would mention the far more important point that the Zombies aren't forced to move at all. :rolleyes:

Still you need to kill every single Zombie to get points for the unit and that is hard to achieve by Magic alone.

Which completely ruins this concept of 100 Zombies being in my flank :angel:

necroncell2131
17-06-2010, 23:19
Better watch out for Lore of death if two wizards get off the spell that reduces Str and T by 1 that unit of 100 is gone. Also the Purple sun spell would decimate if it went down the center or through one of your flanks making all models touched by the small or large blast take an Initiative test failure is death X(

Paraelix
17-06-2010, 23:28
Better watch out for Lore of death if two wizards get off the spell that reduces Str and T by 1 that unit of 100 is gone.

Assuming there is no minimum... And assuming it is a spell that can be cast by more than one wizard... Remembering that, aside from the basic spell, each other spell may only be known to a single wizard.

necroncell2131
18-06-2010, 00:34
Except for items that grant you the knowledge of all spells in a particular lore or if your wizard gets the Loremaster rule with an errata.

King_Pash
18-06-2010, 01:09
Exactly. And let's be honest a block of 100 zombies is hardly going to sneak up on anyone.

Lol, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. That's going in my sig :D

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 01:29
Except for items that grant you the knowledge of all spells in a particular lore or if your wizard gets the Loremaster rule with an errata.

I'm not 100% sure of that... But at the same time, why would you? 2x Slann = most of 2 lores :D

Skywave
18-06-2010, 01:56
Zombies backed by Corpse Cart is so yesterday. Get a Vampire with lore of light, and cast speed of light instead (get WS and I of 10)!

Now you'll have ninja Zombies :D

Sinaris
18-06-2010, 02:34
At least its fluffy.

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 02:48
Zombies backed by Corpse Cart is so yesterday. Get a Vampire with lore of light, and cast speed of light instead (get WS and I of 10)!

Now you'll have ninja Zombies :D

*sigh* I understand not giving Vampires Lore of Life... But why the hell can they get Lore of Light? >_>; It's bonus is killing undead...