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Abbo
17-06-2010, 23:43
Why is there no Warp Spider Phoenix lord? Or is there one and im just blind?

Paul Nexus
17-06-2010, 23:55
Phoenix Lords are usually founders of the Aspect Shrines. Someone had to have created the Warp Spiders and Shining Spears, though I don't think those Aspects are as ancient as the others. Just a guess.

Abbo
17-06-2010, 23:56
hmm i completely forgot about the spears too, i wonder? a galaxy wide conspiracy?

MajorWesJanson
18-06-2010, 00:21
Phoenix Lords are the original Aspect founders. Shining Spears, Warp Spiders, Crystal Dragons? were added later, and thus not around with the original batch, thus no phoenix lords.

Chrysis
18-06-2010, 00:46
Unless I'm mistaken Karandras wasn't the founder of the Striking Scorpions, Arhra was, and yet he's still a Phoenix Lord. So being the founder of an aspect isn't a prerequisite.

Tethylis
18-06-2010, 00:49
Well you've seen what happens to warp spiders when you roll a double? Thats probably why.

ooglatjama
18-06-2010, 01:08
And the shining spear one must have rolled too many 1s for his dangerous terrain rolls eh?

PariahX
18-06-2010, 07:44
Phoenix Lords are the original Aspect founders. Shining Spears, Warp Spiders, Crystal Dragons? were added later, and thus not around with the original batch, thus no phoenix lords.

Let us not forget the Slicing Orbs of Zandros.

Whatever the hell they are....

AndrewGPaul
18-06-2010, 07:46
The Phoenix Lords appeared in the game at the same time as the Shining Spears and Warp Spiders. It's possible that they were developed first, and then nobody thought to invent a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord at the same time as the Warp Spiders.

In-setting, I don't see why there isn't a Shining Spear or Warp Spider Phoenix Lord; it's just there's no stats for them.

MagosHereticus
18-06-2010, 08:30
probably intentional open ended mysterious mysteries, like the 2 missing legions

jlmb_123
18-06-2010, 08:53
There was a piece in WD a very long time ago that suggested both that Phoenix Lords' bodies could remain undiscovered on uninhabited worlds for millenia until an Eldar turned up to bring them back to life, and in the same paragraph a mention was made of Eldar simply being lost and dying somewhere in the galaxy and never found again. I'm inclined to say that the Warp Spiders' and Shining Spears' Phoenix Lords disappeared a very long time before the 'present' game setting and haven't been rediscovered.

Sir_Turalyon
18-06-2010, 08:58
Or the Exarches that founded these aspects never became powerful enough. The Phoenix Lords are suits of exarch armour who, by virtue of being around long enough, agglomerated personalities and skills of enough users to gain superior statlines. Exarches that founded Spiders and Spears might never progress beyond ordinary ruleswise. Or they armours simply got lost.

Idaan
18-06-2010, 10:38
For people who think that there are only 7 Phoenix Lords and that they were all the founders of the original Aspects:


No one knows exactly how many Phoenix Lords there are, for some are seen but rarely, while others disappear for millennia only to reappear suddenly and unexpectedly. Some have undoubtedly perished far away, their suits lying upon some hostile world awaiting discovery by some predestined Eldar warrior doomed to don the armour and become the ancient hero for another cycle of his existence.

Some of the Phoenix Lords are as old as the Fall. They were heroes during the cataclysm, and were the first to bear the spirit stones of the Warrior Aspects. Perhaps they never reached the craftworlds and so never founded their own shrine as others did, or maybe their shrines have since been destroyed along with their craftworlds. Whatever their past, they are the most fearsome of all Exarchs, and the most powerful warriors of all the Eldar.
Note the quote about some of them being as old as the Fall: even the youngest of the known Phoenix Lords, Karandras (he was the adopted son of Ahra) lived during the Fall though he was merely a child.

The fact that there are only 7 known Phoenix Lords can be attributed, once again to the "theme" that they're based on: that of the Seven Immortals of Chinese myth, the legendary founders of the Taoist sects and the original heroes of Wuxia stories.

LexxBomb
18-06-2010, 14:07
Why is there no Warp Spider Phoenix lord? Or is there one and im just blind?

there is, read "Eldar Prophecies"

it is Gotto at his worst but is technically canon

Sir_Turalyon
18-06-2010, 20:13
Technicaly, there is no canon...

w00tm0ng3r
18-06-2010, 22:18
there is, read "Eldar Prophecies"

it is Gotto at his worst but is technically canon

While the Lykhosidae is the closest thing we've got, it's also probably the farthest thing from a warp spider there is. The description makes the guy look like a blinged out (custodes style) striking scorpion, he doesn't have a teleporter, and fights like a banshee with a pair of witchblades instead of deathspinners and exarch style power blades :shifty:

LexxBomb
19-06-2010, 01:16
I was referring to the appendix at the back of the novel that stated the Lykhosidae was a Phoenix Lord

w00tm0ng3r
19-06-2010, 02:45
I was referring to the appendix at the back of the novel that stated the Lykhosidae was a Phoenix Lord

I'm aware. It actually says so in the novel too if anyone suffered to read it (I read it before/while I found out how bad Goto was, which happened about 10 pages in). I was just pointing out how idiotic it was for the warp spider phoenix lord to not have anything in common with warp spiders.

Poseidal
21-06-2010, 07:57
There probably is a Warp Spider, Shining Spear and many other Phoenix Lords, but none are as important as the big seven.

ashc
21-06-2010, 09:40
Let us not forget the Slicing Orbs of Zandros.

Whatever the hell they are....

Too awesome to even begin to describe... :p

The given answer is usually that these are 'newer' aspects and so don't have a Phoenix Lord, but I have thought its always something GW could choose to expand upon if desired, the background certainly allows for it.

Abbo
21-06-2010, 16:17
This is gonna seem silly but what is canon?

[SD] Bob Plisskin
22-06-2010, 03:21
•A canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is a body of material that is considered to be "genuine" or "official", that can be directly referenced as, or as if it were, material produced by the original author or creator of a series. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

Elbows of Death
13-07-2010, 23:39
If you read deep enough into some of the fluff around the Eldar, they give you an idea that there are many more "aspects" than those represented in the game. Thus we're driven to imagine there are probably more Phoenix Lords than presented by GW.

However with the existence of corsairs, pirates, Harlequins, and Exodite worlds/tribes...and then plenty of "lost" normal Eldar, who knows how many exist. Is it definitively listed anywhere if Aspects are primarily Craftworld based, or do various Aspect warrior shrines know of each other?

Eldar are possibly one of the most open-ended races in the Warhammer world.

Son of Sanguinius
14-07-2010, 01:01
I'm impressed. I figured this thread was going to be all about Goto bashing, but there is interesting discussion here. Nice work, guys. :)

PariahX
14-07-2010, 04:17
Too awesome to even begin to describe... :p

The given answer is usually that these are 'newer' aspects and so don't have a Phoenix Lord, but I have thought its always something GW could choose to expand upon if desired, the background certainly allows for it.

I've always wondered - how can you slice something with an orb?

Son of Sanguinius
14-07-2010, 04:20
I'm guessing either they use some type of bladed orb or they have a circular weapon similar to the one from soul caliber and it perhaps spins at sufficient angles and speed to create an orb-like illusion.

chromedog
14-07-2010, 07:53
Or perhaps the 'orb' is merely the leading weighted end of a length of 'monofilament' (like a monofilament whip).

gitburna
14-07-2010, 08:47
Back when i was a naive teenager in 2nd edition and the dawn of the internet, i made up a wargear card for Slicing Orbs. Looking back, they were quite Dark Eldarish in effects.

They were essentially grenades that had monofilament wire in with barbs on it, and some sort of psychic effect in the explosion that made the enemy take a fear check. I imagined the Aspects to be similar to Warp Spiders - perhaps some sort of offshoot of the original shrine. (nowadays you'd say they'd "count as" Warp Spiders)

I remember a very good piece of fiction i read once, someone had invented a Howling Banshee offshoot after a badly burned and mentally scarred Banshee limps gets back to her now deserted shrine and decides to take up the weapons that have destroyed her sisters.

PariahX
14-07-2010, 09:35
But an orb is a sphere! How can something with no edge slice?

:D

ashc
14-07-2010, 09:53
imagine a many-bladed circular thing spinning so fast that it looks like a sphere to the naked eye...

Flame Boy
14-07-2010, 13:51
...Either that, or the could have a weapon that fires thousands of tiny orbs in a short space of time, but that would like trying to saw through a tree with machinegun fire, and would be rather boring compared to everyone else's ideas.

I personally prefer to picture them as telekinetically wielding these orbs a bit like Patience Kys uses her Kineblades in the Eisenhorn books.

I just stuck "orb" into google and got this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orb_%28optics%29

Now I'm getting the image of clouds of killer light-reflecting dust. I think I'll stop my barrel-scraping here. :p

MrSatan
14-07-2010, 22:13
Nah just think of GoGo's weapon from kill bill, big heavy ball with a retractable blade, probably with a powerfield in the ball itself....

....Urge to convert...rising...

PariahX
15-07-2010, 05:02
Yes.... and they'll have to be wearing a japanese schoolgirl outfit. Pigtails optional.

Bubbatron
18-07-2010, 23:35
going on other aspects theres also mention of the aspect used to pilot starfighters - cant remember the name though sure it was along the lines of star falcons - or something like that !

i also remember eldar online doing a competition to create an aspect - had a lot of interesting entries in there

i was always surprised they didnt alter the fire dragons though - how good would it be to have a choice how to fire your weapon - either as fusion gun or flamer - would still keep with the firey aspect of them but give more versatility

Garanaul the Black
19-07-2010, 02:31
But an orb is a sphere! How can something with no edge slice?

:D


Like this. :D Phantasm FTW!

Grimbad
19-07-2010, 02:36
I've always wondered - how can you slice something with an orb?

They're mentioned as being 'weirdly terrifying'. Probably because they've found out how to answer this question.

Though I'm picturing an eldar warrior with tons of servo-limbs (like the warp spider exarch), each with some kind of sword.

Corax
19-07-2010, 12:28
I would imagine that the 'Slicing Orbs' would be something along the lines of a Shaolin Meteor Hammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox4XwAr4fZo&feature=related) (see video from 1:20 onwards).