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TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 01:51
This is the only part of the book that I really dislike, and I really hope that as a gaming community we can fix this. The book is worded right now that units can see what the miniature would be able to see from their eye point of view. Why couldn't they have just said, infanty blocks infantry, monsterous infantry and monsterous beasts can be seen over infantry but block each other, and monsters can bee seen by everyone and are only blocked by other monsters. And we can say that hills that elevate you make you one size category larger or something. Why is that so hard for games workshop to do? lol

Ultimate Life Form
18-06-2010, 01:55
They could have done it, but apparently they didn't want to.

Personally I have no problem with it except for the part that 'woods' suddenly don't seem very dense anymore.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 01:57
I blame the Chaos Dwarfs for making the forests less dense, lol.

Ultimate Life Form
18-06-2010, 01:59
Environmental pollution and dying forest syndrome in the Warhammer World? :o

Lord Malorne
18-06-2010, 02:25
OP: Nothing wrong with things seeing what they can... see.

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 03:51
How about the fact that the eyes of the models are technically painted on, so they can't see what you can see? So you can't see anything from their eye point of view cause they are fake?:D

rocdocta
18-06-2010, 03:54
OP: Nothing wrong with things seeing what they can... see.

so if you model all the models facing outwards...they can always charge cos they can always ...see? Shaping up for the dumbest ...edition...ever...

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 04:30
It would be illegal to have all your models facing outward. The rules for rank and file say that all models in a unit must be facing and thus looking in the same direction, lol.

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 04:44
It would be illegal to have all your models facing outward. The rules for rank and file say that all models in a unit must be facing and thus looking in the same direction, lol.

Who is to determine legal or illegal for modelling in a freaking modelling game?
Take a good look at victoria lamb's animosity orcs, they are facing in every direction haha.

Players just have to agree that the stupid rule is stupid both in wording and appication, using their common sense to agree before the game starts. Base on this dumb rule, I am going to be very wary when playing to random players... he or she might just insist that one of his model which happen to be looking side way because it was model for the sake of aesthetics can see side ways and he is not wrong because thats what the retarded rule says so!

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 04:53
I have issues with this rule cause of a friend who plays lizardmen. Now that being a large target no longer means anything in 8th edition he may still try to insist that his Carnasaur (which did not recieve the large target rule) can still hide behinde skinks or normal troops. I had trouble believing I couldn't see the carnasaur before when it wasn't large, now that its true line of site I'm pretty sure I should always be able to see the carnasaur.

Another idea comes to mind, the Hellcannon which is a monster, not a warmachine does not have eyes, how is it supposed to see? lol

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 05:29
Another idea comes to mind, the Hellcannon which is a monster, not a warmachine does not have eyes, how is it supposed to see? lol

exactly....

blurrymadness
18-06-2010, 05:33
It's been fine in 40k and all of it's oddities for a few years now, it's not surprising they're doing it in fantasy. Hellcannon would likely be determined from the gun, the issue of modeling for advantage is covered by the rule "Modeling for Advantage" in 40k... can't imagine what they'll call it in WHFB.

It was world ending in 40k until it wasn't. You'll get over it.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 05:54
You know someone is going to model a Bloodthirster on a base with a giant claw rising up out of a pit, like he is coming out of hell to fight just so he can hide behind units and not get shot, lol.

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 06:43
It will look damn good for worth painting.

rocdocta
18-06-2010, 08:21
actually i have always wanted to model a greater daemon on hands and knees doing the leopard crawl! to show how abusable TLOS is...just look at 40k. i played against an oppo that modelled his terrigans a mm off the base to look like crabs. cool? sure looks good. but now all 4 of them hide behind gaunts. a different player models them like carni and they now can be see behind gaunts. far too abusable.

Kalandros
18-06-2010, 08:30
At least Privateer Press has made rules for models, regardless of how you model it, a model on a Large base has a 'game heigth' and the base is the width, anything taller and wider does not count for seeing the mode.

Smart move, I wish Games Workshop had thought of that one.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 08:39
You know as players we could just adopt the same thing Privateer press is doing. Have three different heights. Infantry and cavalry (including non monster cav) as height level 1, Ogres and monsterous infantry (basically 40mm base stuff), and then a monster size for anything thats a monster on a chariot or 50mm base. Problem is getting everyone to agree on it.

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 08:52
At least Privateer Press has made rules for models, regardless of how you model it, a model on a Large base has a 'game heigth' and the base is the width, anything taller and wider does not count for seeing the mode.

Smart move, I wish Games Workshop had thought of that one.

Having a min size for models is fine. But some imaginary cylinder shape of a model inside the model I put on the table... Ridiculous...

Kalandros
18-06-2010, 10:51
lets you convert models into magnificent models without making them more of an obvious target.

On the other hand, games workshop's method allows for very very poor modelling options for idiots that want to abuse the system.

Crouching Furnace, Hidden Abomination.

Walgis
18-06-2010, 11:10
The book is worded right now that units can see what the miniature would be able to see from their eye point of view.

than that settles it, my saurus warriors has a minimum 180 degree sight becouse theyre eyes are on side not front. Rule abuse rocks :D

going to convert skinks on about 2-3 cm high rocks so they would block my infantry. carnosour will be swiming in a pudle :D slann will be sitting on a rock. LOL. GW failed. it makes me think are they realy this stupid or they just want to fail theyre greatest game? i dont understand.

simple thing infantry blocks infantry, every model has 90 degree look (lone models 180) and the TLOS for sake if the unit is able to see threw wood or hill.

how about skirmishers? in theyr idiotica "formation" they wont screen anything, so whats the use for them? point spend that your oponent would get more VP? dont get it.

8ed has some totaly dum things. GW totaly dint think about rules.

as i said my saurus will have minimum 180 degree sight to 270 degree sight becouse theyr eyes are on sides and nobody can tell me diferently becouse these are the rules....

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 11:18
Stegadon eyes are on the side of their heads. THERE'S GONNA BE SOME CRAZY CHARGES!

Clearly disks of Tzneetch will be able to charge in all directions.

:p

Lord Malorne
18-06-2010, 12:06
God people are being stupid in this thread (AKA failing at being funny). When you get the book it will make sense.

stuntyKing
18-06-2010, 12:10
Many people are talking about shooting through forests, with TLOS is this now possible or something? or with less penalty?

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 12:14
God people are being stupid in this thread (AKA failing at being funny). When you get the book it will make sense.

My friend, true line of sight never makes sense.

Lord Malorne
18-06-2010, 12:35
Yes, it does :).

Flash Felix
18-06-2010, 12:45
You know someone is going to model a Bloodthirster on a base with a giant claw rising up out of a pit, like he is coming out of hell to fight just so he can hide behind units and not get shot, lol.

Well, it'd be a cheap model. An arm, an axe, some green stuff and a base. It'd save you a bit of cash.

Mind you, on the minus side, this Bloodthirster would have a hell of a job seeing an enemy and then declaring a charge....

Tarliyn
18-06-2010, 13:43
I was under the impression that visual arcs still existed. No?

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 13:46
Oh they do, nobody in this thread is being serious because this issue has already been beaten to death.