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snakezenn
18-06-2010, 03:36
Hi, im still in the looking around phase at which armies i want to get and i was going to ask everyone's opinion. I have normally read a lot of the black library stuff so if they have a lot of stuff there that would be a bonus. Not sure the style of army, but i am normally pretty agressive and attacking when it comes to games. A few armies i will not do are: Chaos marines, Dark Eldar and Necrons.

Shas'o Kais
18-06-2010, 04:42
Ork's, they are aggressive, have high numbers, or lots of vehicles, they can hold their own in shooting as well as combat, and Green is Best in general. You will get addicted to the fluff, and become part of a worldwide tide of green and Ork kulture.

woodfin
18-06-2010, 04:53
Go Ork OR our great race, the Great people of the craftworlds! Orks are large in numbers and very up front. Eldar are less in numbers so less painting, we are very aggressive but we are NOT up front we are behind the opponent in like 2 turns.

Shas'o Kais
18-06-2010, 05:11
he Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. -Eldar Philosopher


Go Green and Crush da umies t'day!

woodfin
18-06-2010, 05:41
he Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. -Eldar Philosopher


Go Green and Crush da umies t'day!

Thats fluff not gameplay

Netfreakk
18-06-2010, 05:43
What type of army are you looking for? When you say aggressive does that imply that you want to rush into assault asap? There are many armies atm that have the capabilities of doing just that. If you're looking for a fast army or a tough army, that will also change what race is best fitted for you. If you're looking for a small elite army or a large horde army that will also change it. Just by saying that you're aggressive doesn't IMO give us enough information to help you.

ReveredChaplainDrake
18-06-2010, 05:56
Anecdotally, does anybody start this hobby and think "oh yeah I'm not aggressive at all, I'll sit here up on this hill and play it safe"? I've never heard of a new player claiming to be anything but aggressive in their play style. :eyebrows:

@ OP: Either Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Both reward aggressive play style (though the latter more than the former) and you'll still be a Marine for the most part, so you can still hold your own if you decide to change your tactics later on. Because you will. See the above paragraph. Sure you may think you're aggressive, but as soon as you realize that things like speed and survivability are what wins you games, you'll change your tune pretty quickly.

snakezenn
18-06-2010, 06:06
Anecdotally, does anybody start this hobby and think "oh yeah I'm not aggressive at all, I'll sit here up on this hill and play it safe"? I've never heard of a new player claiming to be anything but aggressive in their play style. :eyebrows:



Thats true, i just am not really sure how i would play army wise. Just using prior experience with other sorts of games as an example. Tough units dont sound bad either. I am not looking for an army that is just point the way to the enemy and attack, i want to at least be able to do a modest amount of shooting. I would also prefer a middle sized force if there is such a thing in the table top.

Model wise i dont care as much as others do, more about what the models can do. I do want to win but i dont want to be power gamer.

woodfin
18-06-2010, 06:22
Thats true, i just am not really sure how i would play army wise. Just using prior experience with other sorts of games as an example. Tough units dont sound bad either. I am not looking for an army that is just point the way to the enemy and attack, i want to at least be able to do a modest amount of shooting. I would also prefer a middle sized force if there is such a thing in the table top.

Model wise i dont care as much as others do, more about what the models can do. I do want to win but i dont want to be power gamer.

I would say eldar.

Captain_Trips01
18-06-2010, 06:41
You should totally do Dark Eldar. Next to UM, they're the most often updated, and are easy to pick up and play, and have awesome models.






:cries::cries:

ReveredChaplainDrake
18-06-2010, 06:49
Thats true, i just am not really sure how i would play army wise. Just using prior experience with other sorts of games as an example. Tough units dont sound bad either. I am not looking for an army that is just point the way to the enemy and attack, i want to at least be able to do a modest amount of shooting. I would also prefer a middle sized force if there is such a thing in the table top.

Model wise i dont care as much as others do, more about what the models can do. I do want to win but i dont want to be power gamer.
There are two (or three) general ways to tackle shooting.

One way is to take your specialists in your grunt units. This lets every unit in your army pose a threat to a target, and it makes your heavy weapons harder for the opponent to get at. The problem is, of course, you wind up wasting lots of shooting. If putting a Meltagun into a Land Raider, those 16 Bolter shots aren't going to be doing much. The iconic unit for this is Tactical Marines, taking a Flamer, a Rocket Launcher, and a (kinda') melee Sergeant for fighting up close. Generally, you can expect this from Human armies, be they Chaos Marines, Loyalist Marines, IG (though they can go the other way as well), and Sisters, though Orks can do this too.

The other way about shooting is to take entire squads of specialists that have the same (or roughly similarly-purposed) weapons. These units have a one-track focus to annihilate, or at least severely damage, one thing pretty much without fail, and they don't waste the firepower of their ablative bodybags like with the above configuration. Probably the best example of this is Eldar Fire Dragons, a unit armed entirely with tank-busting Fusion Guns. The obvious flaw is that these specialists don't really do much out of their element. Sometimes their weapons are relatively good against everything, but suffer in that they have a delivery (Wraithguard), accuracy (Lootas), or durability (Tzeentch Flamers) issue. The other problem is that these units tend to be rather expensive for their toughness, and thus are tougher to get into position at full strength. If you go with this route, go with your Xenos armies. Eldar, Tau, and Necrons all have very one-track specialist units that are good at killing one kind of target, but will do mediocre to poor against other targets.

The third way to handle shooting is so heavily discouraged that it's barely worth mention as an option is to just eschew shooting entirely and go straight for assault. Here's where your Daemon and Tyranid armies generally go. They don't have much trouble taking opponents apart once they hit, usually with little regard to what the enemy is. The problem is catching the opponent. In a metagame environment saturated with Transport vehicles, you really need some way to pin units down and take their legs out from under them before you can catch them in assault. These armies tend to have token anti-tank units to mix in with their almost entirely combat-focused army that can handle pretty much anything else.

IcedAnimals
18-06-2010, 08:25
Anecdotally, does anybody start this hobby and think "oh yeah I'm not aggressive at all, I'll sit here up on this hill and play it safe"? I've never heard of a new player claiming to be anything but aggressive in their play style. :eyebrows:

@ OP: Either Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Both reward aggressive play style (though the latter more than the former) and you'll still be a Marine for the most part, so you can still hold your own if you decide to change your tactics later on. Because you will. See the above paragraph. Sure you may think you're aggressive, but as soon as you realize that things like speed and survivability are what wins you games, you'll change your tune pretty quickly.

I will introduce you to myself. When I started playing I wanted to play a gun line army. Sit back let the enemy come to me and then close the net.

I also wanted an army that was really hard to kill. And finally I wanted an army that was unique. One that people would not play against often so games would be fun. Never did I want to play an "aggressive army" My first army I chose was a necron gun line in 3rd edition before they had a codex. Shortly after I changed to witch hunters with guard.

And only with the recent 5th edition "get in vehicles or get off the table" destruction of gun lines have I switched to a more aggressive play style. And even then since I can take guard I still have a large amount of my army defensively.

Now then for the OP. Orks really are a great aggressive army. I would start by making a list of armies that don't suit your play style and that you have no interest in.

So we have necrons, chaos marines, and dark eldar. All knocked off the list. I would also kick eldar and tau off the list.

What is your problem with chaos marines? is it the "icky sticky?" aspect? A fun aggressive army that will constantly reward you as you become a better general. But if you don't like the well chaos of chaos they won't be for you either.

I have seen people play guard aggresively but they are known as a reactionary army. You set up, your enemy moves you react with firepower that sends him reeling.

Bugs are a nice aggressive army. Though insects might not be for. And of course at the end of the day you can always fall back on marines.

Netfreakk
18-06-2010, 10:52
Thats true, i just am not really sure how i would play army wise. Just using prior experience with other sorts of games as an example. Tough units dont sound bad either. I am not looking for an army that is just point the way to the enemy and attack, i want to at least be able to do a modest amount of shooting. I would also prefer a middle sized force if there is such a thing in the table top.

Model wise i dont care as much as others do, more about what the models can do. I do want to win but i dont want to be power gamer.


First let me say that most players will say, "play _____, there's enough marine players around". If you want to play marines go right ahead.

Ok now that I've said that =P...

Looking for a tough in terms of suvivalbility in the gaming aspect can be seen through their toughness value, their armor value, and their special rules.

Marines, Necrons (outdated dex imo), orks, tyranids (depending on how you build them), all have toughness 4. which in game terms is resilent.

Eldar, Dark Eldar, guards( normal humans), tyranids (if you go swarm), sisters(outdated dex), all have toughness 3.

This means that when they are hit by something they are more likely to sustain a wound.

Armor value is also important because it lets you see if you survive that wound that you just received. Marines, Necrons, sisters all have an armor value of 3+ which means when you roll a die you need a 3 or higher to live. so a 66% chance of living.

Orks, tyranids have the worst saves of usually 6+, which means you will live 1/6 times unless you use cover, which you can learn through the rule book.

So basically Marines are the most resilent race in the game.

Other races like Eldar who are toughness 3 and have a save of a 4+ have special rules that usually allow them to survive through different means. They utilize very fast and resilent vehicles, or use spells to compensate their weak toughness.

Orks and Tyranids uses the philosophy of massing bodies to offset the amount of deaths. So they can use a lot of models if that's how you want to play them.



Each codex (army rulebook) usually have different ways that you can build up an army.

IMO in very general terms:

-Tau are shooty

-Eldar Fast

-Ork (IMO can build the most viable army lists)

-Guard (another great codex that can make multiple lists)

-Codex Marines: Standard (by which I mean they are average in everything and specialize in nothing. By which I also mean, they can specialize but the army is more geared towards using utility units).

Some armies I wouldn't bother with since your just starting:

Chaos Daemons: Only because they play so differently that it will take a bit longer to learn. Plus they use a lot of metal models which is expensive. They are however releasing new plastic ones so... if you like them and don't mind learning more things then go for it.

Witch Hunters: Their codex is very old. It is still viable, but it's rumored that they will release a new codex soon. (whenever that means).

Daemon Hunters: Same as above.

Dark Eldar: Same as above. Supposedly going to have a new release in the fall.




------------------------------------
If you have specific questions I'm sure people here will be able to give you better specific answers, but here's my 2 cents.

sigur
18-06-2010, 11:13
Hi, im still in the looking around phase at which armies i want to get and i was going to ask everyone's opinion. I have normally read a lot of the black library stuff so if they have a lot of stuff there that would be a bonus. Not sure the style of army, but i am normally pretty agressive and attacking when it comes to games. A few armies i will not do are: Chaos marines, Dark Eldar and Necrons.

Listen, for I will share a timeless shard of wisdom with you: Go for the army that you like the looks and background of. You will spend more time painting , working out lists and reading about your army than actually playing so you better like your army as it is off the table otherwise playing it won't work that well. :)

Have a look at the miniature ranges, read some background (I was just about to comment on how I don't like BL novels as background sources because they are often inaccurate, dismiss important parts of the background in favor of overblowing or downright inventing their own stuff and so on. But I'm not grumpy today so I will repress my urge to write up such a comment. :angel: ), then decide. These days, all army lists are flexible enough to make up very different lists so you'll be good gameplaywise.

LonelyPath
18-06-2010, 13:38
What sigur said, he ninja'd me. But yes, the fluff and appeal of the models, etc are among the most important things in collecting a army.

Oh, and I say go for Orks if they appeal to you, they are very aggressive. Sisters of Battle (Witch Hunters) are also a aggressive force, but very expensive to collect these days unless you happen upon some Ebay nargains.

Erwos
18-06-2010, 14:25
The world needs more Ork players... because my Dakka Predators don't get enough workout. But, more seriously, they're a great race to start with. They're competitive, they've got some neat strategies available to them, and they actually have some cheap, usable units from the AoBR box set. They're also in that tier of races that seem to get updates every edition, sooner or later (I expect Orks and Chaos in 2012, personally).

Erwos
18-06-2010, 14:36
I will introduce you to myself. When I started playing I wanted to play a gun line army. Sit back let the enemy come to me and then close the net.

I also wanted an army that was really hard to kill. And finally I wanted an army that was unique. One that people would not play against often so games would be fun. Never did I want to play an "aggressive army" My first army I chose was a necron gun line in 3rd edition before they had a codex. Shortly after I changed to witch hunters with guard.

And only with the recent 5th edition "get in vehicles or get off the table" destruction of gun lines have I switched to a more aggressive play style. And even then since I can take guard I still have a large amount of my army defensively.
This was me, too. I originally chose Chaos back in 2E because I liked how they could field huge amounts of heavy weapons in durable squads. Fast forward to 5E, and I've got a bunch of Rhinos charging down the field while backed up by deep-striking-on-icons terminators. While I still like being defensive, 5E rewards insane aggression like no other edition.

So, it's almost irrelevant if you're aggressive or not; in 5E, if you don't want to lose, you're going to be capturing forcing enemies off objectives one way or the other.

snakezenn
18-06-2010, 18:34
I was wondering, are the ork boyz from the starter set a good buy? Cause i assume with most boyz they are just gonna be equipped with choppas and so i assumed that the starter boyz from black reach are just cheaper and come with what i need, is this true? Or am i wrong here.

jsullivanlaw
18-06-2010, 18:58
I was wondering, are the ork boyz from the starter set a good buy? Cause i assume with most boyz they are just gonna be equipped with choppas and so i assumed that the starter boyz from black reach are just cheaper and come with what i need, is this true? Or am i wrong here.

It's the best deal on models out there. Get a couple sets and then trade the marines for more orks or sell them on ebay.

LonelyPath
18-06-2010, 19:02
The Boyz from the Black Reach box are great value for money since you can normally pick them up so cheaply, plus you get a big shoota among them for a added bonus. If you need some shoota boyz, just buy them in the proper boyz boxes from discount sites. The only thing the Black reach boyz are really missing are Nobz, but that's a easy fix :)

If you buy 2 sets of Black reach and sell the marnie elements, current average UK price tags on Ebay would have you getting roughly 60+ back.

woodfin
18-06-2010, 20:29
The orks are like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfykgWiwbSU
aggressive and in big numbers!

Charistoph
18-06-2010, 22:48
Most aggressive armies (no particular order):
Orks
Tryannids
Daemons
Blood Angels

Followed closely by:
Black Templar
Space Wolves
Chaos Marines

Next is:
Ultramarines
Dark Angels
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Daemonhunters

Then:
Wirch Hunters
Necrons

Least is IG and Tau.

This ranked by the general codex concept, the ability and desire to get into Assault vs Shooting, and the general fluff behind the army.

Xyrex
19-06-2010, 05:52
You should totally do Dark Eldar. Next to UM, they're the most often updated, and are easy to pick up and play, and have awesome models.








Don't give new people bad tips! No one cares for the DE, and IMO they should be squated!:mad: Now then:

Imperial guard: A good shooting army, perhaps the best if used correctly.

SM: very good all rounders

Orks: awesome fluff, very fun games with them. Downside is that you have to get used to painting a lot and collecting your models off the table as they die by the dozens. Good assault, shooting should never be underestimated.:shifty: (these guys blew up my biggest tank with a small truck:cries::wtf:)

Dark Angel Space Marines (DASM): WE HAVE ROBES BEOTCHES!:evilgrin:

None: This is the best choice, turn back, get a life, and save some money;). Personllayly I have a little regret going into 40k, but since I'm here, might as well keep going.

woodfin
19-06-2010, 06:18
Don't give new people bad tips! No one cares for the DE, and IMO they should be squated!:mad: Now then:

Imperial guard: A good shooting army, perhaps the best if used correctly.

SM: very good all rounders

Orks: awesome fluff, very fun games with them. Downside is that you have to get used to painting a lot and collecting your models off the table as they die by the dozens. Good assault, shooting should never be underestimated.:shifty: (these guys blew up my biggest tank with a small truck:cries::wtf:)

Dark Angel Space Marines (DASM): WE HAVE ROBES BEOTCHES!:evilgrin:

None: This is the best choice, turn back, get a life, and save some money;). Personllayly I have a little regret going into 40k, but since I'm here, might as well keep going.

Soon you will find yourself saying blood for the blood got every time you see someone bleed, true story.

Xyrex
19-06-2010, 06:21
Soon you will find yourself saying blood for the blood goD every time you see someone bleed, true story.

fixed it for you;)