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View Full Version : Spells are easy to get in 8th edition!



TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 05:05
I had to reread the part of the book to make sure I read it correctly but I guess now when you roll for spells you only roll once. If you happen to roll two of the same spells you get to pick a spell that you did not roll to replace it. I love this rule as it will make getting gateway almost automatic if I take an item that gives me an extra spell. The only way I can not get it is if I roll a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And I am pretty sure the odds of that are extremely rare. Oh and if I take a second tzeentch level 1 mage, guess whats the only spell he can get? The one the first mage who has 5 spells did not get! lol. Be ready for lots of gateways from chaos armies, lol.

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 05:21
If by lots you mean 1?

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 05:25
Ok its easy to get the spells you want in 8th edition. I guess I should have put that as the topic I will edit if able.

Lord Solar Plexus
18-06-2010, 05:27
Well, the same goes for everyone else - be ready for lots of lore of metal and no armour.

I'd be very happy if your Lvl 1 gets Gateway. That's much easier to dispell than from a Lvl 4.

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 05:37
I'd double check yourself there. That works for BRB lores, but Army Book lores say to roll again. Army Books still trump BRB in cases like this. FAQ may well change it, but for now...

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 05:48
I didn't think about that, darn! But does that mean I can have more than one gateway in my army if I'm not using any lores from the BRB? And nobody is going to take lore of metal in a tournament when the new rules say that you have to choose your lore when writing your list. Sure its good against chaos, but what about all those beastmen, orcs and goblins, elves, and skaven? lol

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 06:42
No. Spells are only allowed to be known by 1 model, except for the "basic" spell of each lore. Which in non-BRB books is the spell u may "swap" for... Generally the first spell. So Flickering Fire for Tzeentch.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 06:57
Techically from what I have seen in the BRB the basic spell is the 7th spell that is not on the 1-6 listing in the lores, so warriors of chaos and demons have no basic spell. Maybe we will get something in an FAQ or something.

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 07:02
I am so going flaming sword of ruin, my favourite spell for fighter wizards.

minionboy
18-06-2010, 07:31
I am so going flaming sword of ruin, my favourite spell for fighter wizards.

That spell is totally different now. It buffs a unit within 24" giving them flaming, magical attacks with +1 to wound.

Still very awesome though. Especially now that Flaming attacks cause fear in cavalry, chariots and warbeasts. ;-)

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 07:31
Flaming sword of Ruin is now a unit buff spell that grants flaming attacks and +1 to wound rolls.

Paraelix
18-06-2010, 07:33
Techically from what I have seen in the BRB the basic spell is the 7th spell that is not on the 1-6 listing in the lores, so warriors of chaos and demons have no basic spell. Maybe we will get something in an FAQ or something.

Please read posts. BRB states the spell you may automatically swap for, usually the first spell, may be replicated.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 07:58
I know what the current BRB says! The new 8th edition book says that you roll randomly for your spells. If you roll the same spell twice, pick another spell to replace the duplicated spell. After you have done all of this, you then may swap any spell you rolled for the basic signature spell from the lore.

Archangelion
18-06-2010, 11:19
Okay, so if you want to go magic heavy in your army and put 2 lvl 4 wizards and 4 lvl 2 wizards in your army, and they all use the same lore, they all only know one spell plus the basic spell? Or is it that each wizard knows the 'comunity' spells, meaning by this that for each spell each wizard rolls, all the wizards know that spell from that lore, if they took that lore? It seems quite limiting to me that you may not have a magic heavy army such as the one I want to use with my DE. Basicly, it is sounding like GW is forceing me to use multiple lores!

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 11:23
The whole "each wizard's spells are unique to only him" is very odd. I can see the balancing perspective on it, but why wouldn't more than 1 wizard in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE know the same or a very similar spell?

I can see the argument that a spell shouldn't be able to be attempted or perhaps cast more than 1 per phase reguardless of models that know it, but the limiter really makes no sense at all from a fluff perspective.

Walgis
18-06-2010, 11:26
Okay, so if you want to go magic heavy in your army and put 2 lvl 4 wizards and 4 lvl 2 wizards in your army, and they all use the same lore, they all only know one spell plus the basic spell? Or is it that each wizard knows the 'comunity' spells, meaning by this that for each spell each wizard rolls, all the wizards know that spell from that lore, if they took that lore? It seems quite limiting to me that you may not have a magic heavy army such as the one I want to use with my DE. Basicly, it is sounding like GW is forceing me to use multiple lores!

if you take all wizards with the same lore max spell you can get is 7, lol, that is 6 basic spells that canot be duplicated and 1 (basicspell) that everyone shares. thats even if you got lets say lv 4 mage and 2x lv2 mages one of them will know only one spell becouse he cant get any other spell becouse they are already in use. LOL. thats another GW fail.

Falkman
18-06-2010, 11:34
LOL. thats another GW fail.
No, it's a deliberate design choice.
Stop your spamming about how much GW "fails" just because they didn't design the game the way you wanted to.

HereBeDragons
18-06-2010, 11:45
That does seem to be quite a daft rule, a very strange limitation. From what has been said that would seem to significantly restrict magic use in larger games. For instance it means there is next to no point in taking more than 3 skink priests, since they are only allowed to use law of heavens. It does seem like a rather strange rules choice, but I shall probably wait to see how the game plays. If all else fails there is always house rules :D

the Goat
18-06-2010, 12:23
The whole "each wizard's spells are unique to only him" is very odd.

Not odd at all. It is just changing back to how the rules use to be in 4th edition. (just like percentages for army construction etc.)

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 12:29
Not odd at all. It is just changing back to how the rules use to be in 4th edition. (just like percentages for army construction etc.)

Wizard A, an ice wizard, knows magic missile of ice
Wizard B , an ice wizard, cannot know magic missile of ice.

Why not? Not talking anything to do with rules here.

Spiney Norman
18-06-2010, 12:32
That spell is totally different now. It buffs a unit within 24" giving them flaming, magical attacks with +1 to wound.

Still very awesome though. Especially now that Flaming attacks cause fear in cavalry, chariots and warbeasts. ;-)

What??? Flaming attacks cause fear? Wow, that one's new on me.

On the other hand psychology is going to be even less influential on the game than it was in 7th (if that were possible) what with everyone using their general's Ld and getting a reroll thanks to the battle standard.

Still I'm very much liking the idea of flaming sword of rhuin cast on my halberdier horde of doom. Flaming and +1 to wound, good by Mr treeman

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 15:13
Okay, so if you want to go magic heavy in your army and put 2 lvl 4 wizards and 4 lvl 2 wizards in your army, and they all use the same lore, they all only know one spell plus the basic spell? Or is it that each wizard knows the 'comunity' spells, meaning by this that for each spell each wizard rolls, all the wizards know that spell from that lore, if they took that lore? It seems quite limiting to me that you may not have a magic heavy army such as the one I want to use with my DE. Basicly, it is sounding like GW is forceing me to use multiple lores!

Just take diferent lores on each of them


if you take all wizards with the same lore max spell you can get is 7, lol, that is 6 basic spells that canot be duplicated and 1 (basicspell) that everyone shares. thats even if you got lets say lv 4 mage and 2x lv2 mages one of them will know only one spell becouse he cant get any other spell becouse they are already in use. LOL. thats another GW fail.

Man, sorry for being an ass, but stop jumping from topic to topic ranting about the same thing.

As you have been told, they did it that way to stop wiz spam of the same tipe, which is great, same as you cannont Spam anything else in the game, no dragon spam, no GD daemon Span not 3 of the same rare unless playing 3k, no 4 of the same special same as with rares, just no spamming along.

What the big deal, all lores are great now, why do you want 9 lvl 1 with heavens?just get 3 lvl 2 with heavens and 1 or 2 slan and your done.

There is no sense anyway in taking so many mages, what are you going to do when you roll 2 PD?

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 16:30
That spell is totally different now. It buffs a unit within 24" giving them flaming, magical attacks with +1 to wound.

Still very awesome though. Especially now that Flaming attacks cause fear in cavalry, chariots and warbeasts. ;-)

...okay it makes the spell more useful now but my happy happy daemon prince of chaos undecided and his painted flaming sword "idea" has now gone pooffed with the wind. And the Dragon wizard HE thingy with a flaming sword now looks abit silly...

Odin
18-06-2010, 16:39
if you take all wizards with the same lore max spell you can get is 7, lol, that is 6 basic spells that canot be duplicated and 1 (basicspell) that everyone shares. thats even if you got lets say lv 4 mage and 2x lv2 mages one of them will know only one spell becouse he cant get any other spell becouse they are already in use. LOL. thats another GW fail.

This...


No, it's a deliberate design choice.
Stop your spamming about how much GW "fails" just because they didn't design the game the way you wanted to.


...and also you're wrong anyway. The Level 4 can take the basic spell plus 3 others. Each Level 2 can take the basic spell plus one other. Which still allows you one more Level 2 with the same Lore, taking the basic spell plus the last available spell.

shelfunit.
18-06-2010, 16:51
The whole "each wizard's spells are unique to only him" is very odd. I can see the balancing perspective on it, but why wouldn't more than 1 wizard in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE know the same or a very similar spell?

I can see the argument that a spell shouldn't be able to be attempted or perhaps cast more than 1 per phase reguardless of models that know it, but the limiter really makes no sense at all from a fluff perspective.

GW are not implying that only 1 wizard in the "ENTIRE UNIVERSE" knows the spell, only that 1 (at most) in each army on the battlefield. Many things in the rules make no sense from a fluff perspective, like KF turning up with a couple of his mates and 2 stanks for example...


Wizard A, an ice wizard, knows magic missile of ice
Wizard B , an ice wizard, cannot know magic missile of ice.

Why not? Not talking anything to do with rules here.

Well, if we're not talking rules, what are we talking about? Nothing in the fluff prevents wizards knowing the spells, just the rules of the game preventing more than 1 casting each of them...

Omniassiah
18-06-2010, 17:03
Wizard A, an ice wizard, knows magic missile of ice
Wizard B , an ice wizard, cannot know magic missile of ice.

Why not? Not talking anything to do with rules here.

Don't cross the streams Ray...

Seriously, think of it like trying to manipulate electromagnetic fields. Manipulating one field is fairly easy, Adding a second one causes you to do a bunch more calculations and has some other weird effects. So for a mage trying to cast a spell isn't easy, and if someone is trying to cast the same spell there is a possibility of those spells interacting and doing something unexpected. Now wizards on the same side will try and avoid that danger by splitting up what spells they will be casting before the battle to prevent unfriendly interactions.

Skyros
18-06-2010, 17:14
Please read posts. BRB states the spell you may automatically swap for, usually the first spell, may be replicated.

Eh? There is a new spell you can swap for, called the 'signature spell'. It's not the 'first spell'. There are 6 spells + signature spell.

Archangelion
18-06-2010, 18:28
Uh, so basicly if I take Morathi for my DE then NO other sorc can use the DE spells because Morathi knows all the spells!? That is total crap!

Omniassiah
18-06-2010, 18:53
Uh, so basicly if I take Morathi for my DE then NO other sorc can use the DE spells because Morathi knows all the spells!? That is total crap!

No, you pick spells one wizard at a time. No wizard can duplicate a non-signature previously selected spell unless he/she has a special rule for spell selection (all spells, Certain spells, or must buy spells).

So if you have 2 lvl 2 wizards and Morathi, if you select Morathi's spells first then yes the other 2 wizards are screwed to the basic tier 0/signature spell. However if you go lvl 2, lvl 2, then Morathi; both lvl 2 casters will get 2 main spells then Morathi will get all of them since she has a "special" method of selecting spells. The same goes with Count Mannfred for VC. Do NOT select his spells first or those of necromancers.

Tarliyn
18-06-2010, 19:06
Don't cross the streams Ray...

Seriously, think of it like trying to manipulate electromagnetic fields. Manipulating one field is fairly easy, Adding a second one causes you to do a bunch more calculations and has some other weird effects. So for a mage trying to cast a spell isn't easy, and if someone is trying to cast the same spell there is a possibility of those spells interacting and doing something unexpected. Now wizards on the same side will try and avoid that danger by splitting up what spells they will be casting before the battle to prevent unfriendly interactions.

I love this here, lol

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 19:07
No, you pick spells one wizard at a time. No wizard can duplicate a non-signature previously selected spell unless he/she has a special rule for spell selection (all spells, Certain spells, or must buy spells).

So if you have 2 lvl 2 wizards and Morathi, if you select Morathi's spells first then yes the other 2 wizards are screwed to the basic tier 0/signature spell. However if you go lvl 2, lvl 2, then Morathi; both lvl 2 casters will get 2 main spells then Morathi will get all of them since she has a "special" method of selecting spells. The same goes with Count Mannfred for VC. Do NOT select his spells first or those of necromancers.

You have to choose your spells from higher rank casters to lowers one so yea morathi should go first

Korraz
18-06-2010, 19:13
Morathi automatically knows all spells, yes? As far as I understood it, wizards that know always spell X (in this case: all) do not count.

TroyJPerez
18-06-2010, 19:18
Ok people really wanna take 2 level 4's and 4 level 2'? How are you going to cast all of these spells you get when your power pool is only 2D6 plus whatever you might luck out on channeling. I would laugh so hard at an all magic character list if they rolled snake eyes for their power dice, lol.

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 19:47
Ok people really wanna take 2 level 4's and 4 level 2'? How are you going to cast all of these spells you get when your power pool is only 2D6 plus whatever you might luck out on channeling. I would laugh so hard at an all magic character list if they rolled snake eyes for their power dice, lol.

thats exactly my points to people who wanna take many wizards

Im taking my slan knowhin a whole spell and a skink priest to know the signature spell to get protection from gunlines, and thats should be about enough, on low rolls i will get 2-3 spells out on high roles i will just pope the whole lore

Archangelion
18-06-2010, 20:17
Yeah, except that DE sorcs can generate more dice for their spells. How does that work now anyways? Every sorc gets that spell plus the base spell min?

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 20:29
Yeah, except that DE sorcs can generate more dice for their spells. How does that work now anyways? Every sorc gets that spell plus the base spell min?

That is the base spell, there is no more base spell there is signature spell which for such armies, well i guess they wont have one, they just allways now that spell.

I guess it will work as signature spell but better since you allways know it

Falkman
18-06-2010, 22:12
It's hard to know without the FAQs.
Either Power of Darkness becomes the signature spell (which would suck) or it becomes a "free" spell and Chillwind becomes the signature spell.

Slyphor
19-06-2010, 01:03
Seriously, think of it like trying to manipulate electromagnetic fields. Manipulating one field is fairly easy, Adding a second one causes you to do a bunch more calculations and has some other weird effects. So for a mage trying to cast a spell isn't easy, and if someone is trying to cast the same spell there is a possibility of those spells interacting and doing something unexpected. Now wizards on the same side will try and avoid that danger by splitting up what spells they will be casting before the battle to prevent unfriendly interactions.

Seriously, don't think of it like this. I don't mind abiding by rules I don't like (like the one wizard per spell), but I can't stand people making up insane "reasons" why they are "realistic." This is a game, and it doesn't mirror reality, if it did, members of the same unit would run the same distance each time they charged; as it is, the reasoning GW gives in the BRB is basically "some of them might have a hangover or might trip in a gopher hole and so run slower." Rules such as these two might make the game better, and over a large sample size, none of us knows yet whether this is true or not, but don't feed anyone a bunch of codswallop about magnetic fields or gopher holes.

Archangelion
19-06-2010, 01:36
I would think that it would make somewhat more sence if they either communalized the spells if from the same lore choice, or if you have multiple wizards using one lore you would roll for the spells untill they are all taken once, then continue to roll untill they are all taken twice and so on and so forth. Makeing you use the full range of spells, not just a few 'choice' spells over and over. Thus representing if you have mutliple wizards who all practice the same lore you are more bound to have each spell represented more equily.

I wouldn't mind it if it were the second way I mentioned above... but this hole each spell only once thing would just suck big time!

Spiney Norman
19-06-2010, 01:43
Ok people really wanna take 2 level 4's and 4 level 2'? How are you going to cast all of these spells you get when your power pool is only 2D6 plus whatever you might luck out on channeling. I would laugh so hard at an all magic character list if they rolled snake eyes for their power dice, lol.

You wouldn't laugh so hard at my all-magic character Tomb King army when I roll snake eyes for WoM and you have 1DD to combat all of my incantations...

Archangelion
20-06-2010, 01:12
Read the new rulebook today. I can confirm that spells are infact limited in the manner of one spell of each type (save the base spell, or signature spell) per army per lore. However, there are exceptions, it seems that a character that can either buy, or comes with certain spells, such as Morathi who has all the spells of the dark lore, do not count towards this penalty.

It still agrivates me that they would limit magic in such a manner.

jamano
20-06-2010, 01:26
it evens out the randomness of spells, which lets them make easier design choices. It's now easier to make sure you always get gateway, but you cant randomly get it on 4 people. Those kind of random rolls can completely change the game into an OP area or to make you useless. Take skaven for example, the plague magic all doesnt work nearly as well if you can't wither people(agaisnt t4 guys itll be hitting on 6s with two of the spells and plague isnt as effective) Now one guy throwing wither out isn't so bad, he helps your other spells go off or gives you a boose in combat. If you just happen to not roll wither on anyone, your magic is running at half speed. On the other side, if you happen to get wither on every wizard, the spell becomes ungodly powerful(had this happen to me a few times, not fun for the opponent). I personally would prefer if we could just pick spells completely but not have more than one of each aside from basic spells. But this is close enough for 8th.

Archangelion
20-06-2010, 01:59
So, what about the hole dispelling deal... I didn't get a chance to read that part... did anyone read how dispelling works? Can an army without wizards dispell? Or must you have at least one wizard to dispell with?

Col. Dash
20-06-2010, 02:27
I was reading the book today. If an army is restricted to a single lore like lizards priests or spellsingers then they are allowed to have duplicates. This is the only exception that I read about. I do not think it applies to chaos armies since they can simply pick a different mark to have access to different spells.

ooglatjama
20-06-2010, 02:35
Oh man, my slaanesh WOC are so happy, we have a sub-par lore and now we all have to spam craptacular lash.

jamano
20-06-2010, 02:50
Oh man, my slaanesh WOC are so happy, we have a sub-par lore and now we all have to spam craptacular lash.

that's your lore's fault, not the BRB. if you had a decent lore you could guarantee you got the spells you wanted every game by bringing the right amount of casters. Also why are you bringing enough wizards to restrict your spells so much if even you think the lore is bad?

ooglatjama
20-06-2010, 02:56
that's your lore's fault, not the BRB. if you had a decent lore you could guarantee you got the spells you wanted every game by bringing the right amount of casters. Also why are you bringing enough wizards to restrict your spells so much if even you think the lore is bad?

At higher points games I would rather not spam fighty characters. A daemon prince lvl 4 and a lvl 2 with a familiar is already doubling up. The higher level spells are great, the basic one is not.

Voss
20-06-2010, 03:27
So, what about the hole dispelling deal... I didn't get a chance to read that part... did anyone read how dispelling works? Can an army without wizards dispell? Or must you have at least one wizard to dispell with?

You use however many of your dispel dice you wish. You don't need a wizard, but if you have one, add his level (or +2 if you play dwarves). If you roll 2 or more 6s, the dispel automatically happens, even if your roll is lower.

There may be something about not dispelling further with a given wizard if you fail to dispel, but I can't confirm that.

Col. Dash
20-06-2010, 04:45
oh and remember there will only ever be one dispel scroll in an army, plus whatever the army gets in its own item list that work similar to DSs.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
20-06-2010, 07:08
Wizard A, an ice wizard, knows magic missile of ice
Wizard B , an ice wizard, cannot know magic missile of ice.

Why not? Not talking anything to do with rules here.


Seriously, don't think of it like this. I don't mind abiding by rules I don't like (like the one wizard per spell), but I can't stand people making up insane "reasons" why they are "realistic." This is a game, and it doesn't mirror reality, if it did, members of the same unit would run the same distance each time they charged; as it is, the reasoning GW gives in the BRB is basically "some of them might have a hangover or might trip in a gopher hole and so run slower." Rules such as these two might make the game better, and over a large sample size, none of us knows yet whether this is true or not, but don't feed anyone a bunch of codswallop about magnetic fields or gopher holes.

I'm glad you feel that way, but since someone asked specifically for a fluff reason why two wizards couldn't know the same spell it seems odd for you to complain about someone else providing one.

I provide another fluff answer just because- All magic is Chaos. The winds of magic themselves blow from the realm of chaos and bring magic into the world. Within Chaos, thought can give form to life. Thus, the formulae each wizard uses to cast a spell actually spawns a living daemon of Chaos. As jealous creatures the first of these born devour any of their own kind born too close to them. Thus friendly wizards in the same army in the same battle can never use the same spell. [Except for the signature spell whose daemons are so weak and easily controlled the wizards can prevent them from killing each other].

Todosi
20-06-2010, 16:47
You use however many of your dispel dice you wish. You don't need a wizard, but if you have one, add his level (or +2 if you play dwarves). If you roll 2 or more 6s, the dispel automatically happens, even if your roll is lower.

There may be something about not dispelling further with a given wizard if you fail to dispel, but I can't confirm that.

Dwarves don't get +2 dice anymore, they get +2 to their dispel rolls now!

Sygerrik
20-06-2010, 17:33
And GW saw that there was a great overabundance of wizards; yea, in ev'ry valley, stood a wizard, and their magic was most vex-some and unpleasant--
And the players cried, "Oh, great GW, save us from this profusion of casters! We fear mightily the Gateway Infernall, for it draggeth down our death-stars to the pit!"--
And GW looked on, and saw that it was so. And it came to pass that GW fashioned a mighty rule, such that magic could not be duplicated, and thus naturally limited wizards; for in their infinite wisdom, GW knew that people would not take lots of wizards if they were limited in what spells they knew--
And GW made it so, and there arose from the players a great wailing and gnashing of teeth; and the players cried "Why, GW? Thou hast killed our game! Yea verily, if I cannot take 15 levels of wizardry in a 2500 point game, what is the point of playing?"--
And GW looked, and saw that it was good.

Lord Solar Plexus
20-06-2010, 18:09
Techically from what I have seen in the BRB the basic spell is the 7th spell that is not on the 1-6 listing in the lores, so warriors of chaos and demons have no basic spell.


The first spell of their lores is the basic spell. The BRB lores have as much to do with that as the impressive performance of the Italian football team against New Zealand.

Argent
20-06-2010, 18:53
You wouldn't laugh so hard at my all-magic character Tomb King army when I roll snake eyes for WoM and you have 1DD to combat all of my incantations...

I would, considering bound spells don't provide the energy to cast them anymore (ie, you still have to throw power dice to use a bound spell).

Archangelion
21-06-2010, 02:13
... save a few of the High Elves items that contain bound spells, I noticed that some of them stated that no power dice are rolled, as the item gifts the power to cast the spell itself.

I don't think, in the end, the new magic rules will utterly destroy magic heavy armies, but rather, make them more versitisle, as players, I am sure, will spread their casters over several different lores.

Daedalus81
21-06-2010, 02:23
Oh man, my slaanesh WOC are so happy, we have a sub-par lore and now we all have to spam craptacular lash.

Bzzzt. Not any more. With all the non-itp hordes Slaanesh will be awesome - especially as Ecstatic Seizures scales with unit size.

Dungeon_Lawyer
21-06-2010, 07:02
No, it's a deliberate design choice.
Stop your spamming about how much GW "fails" just because they didn't design the game the way you wanted to.

No he is right it is a fail, that rules sucks

So too is the pick your lore when you do a list instead of before a battle, I hate that rule--that needs to go too.....

Gorak
21-06-2010, 08:29
I see it from this perpective, as a general do i want 3 wizards with the same exact spells or 3 wirzard who can do many things? I say cheers! no more spamming the same spell, over and over and over.................

Archangelion
21-06-2010, 10:58
Is it just me, or is the first arcane item from the High Elves now useless. It states that any roll of a double causes irresistable force. Doen't irresistable force mean that the caster has lost controll? Or is there simply no 'miscast' or 'irresistable force' anymore and it is all just called 'loss of controll' or 'overpowered' or whatever.

jamano
21-06-2010, 11:08
No they're called the same things but there's a clause about the IF or miscast being caused by an item or ability not triggering the other.(so that item wouldn't trigger a miscast, and ring of hotek wouldn't trigger an IF)

Sygerrik
21-06-2010, 20:15
No he is right it is a fail, that rules sucks

So too is the pick your lore when you do a list instead of before a battle, I hate that rule--that needs to go too.....

As much as you may think so, these two bolded portions do not mean the same thing.

Read the lores before you criticize. One of the reasons they're free to be so powerful and versatile is that each spell will only appear once-- you can't have several wizards spamming Birona's Timewarp, so if you want to affect more than one unit you have to go for the much harder to cast upgunned version. The new spells are a masterpiece of writing. They're incredibly diverse, well-balanced and there are no clunkers.

Archangelion
22-06-2010, 01:50
Well that's nice of GW to throw in there! I didn't think about it the other way around!

So, what Lores are good for the DE players? I mean, I haven't been able to take a good look at them, I do like the idea of using some of the basic winds in my armies (I'll probably have to in order for my sorcs to not be useless!)

Paraelix
22-06-2010, 01:53
I know what the current BRB says! The new 8th edition book says that you roll randomly for your spells. If you roll the same spell twice, pick another spell to replace the duplicated spell. After you have done all of this, you then may swap any spell you rolled for the basic signature spell from the lore.

And that when generating spells from a non-BRB lore, you may have multiples of a spell that can be "chosen instead of" a spell you have rolled. Usually this is the 1st spell of the lore, although sometimes (as in the case of Skaven) it is a different spell.

That was the point I was making.

Voss
22-06-2010, 02:24
They're incredibly diverse, well-balanced and there are no clunkers.

There are a few. The Burning Head and Steed of Shadows still seem to be trying to play 7th edition, and Urion's Thunderbolt is looking around at the other #4 spells and weeping to itself.

On the upside, the lores generally only have 1 spell I wouldn't want in most circumstances, which is much better than the 50% that were terrible in 7th.

Archangelion- well, Dark Magic is good for Black Horror and Word of Agony. Most of the rest are pretty naff, with the exception of soul stealer, which could wreck terrible havoc on large, low toughness units.
Fire, is of course, an all purpose lore that is generally good in most situations.
Metal is nice, but if you aren't facing a lot of good armour saves, it isn't spectacular.
Death is amazing for murdering characters. Especially since other spells in the lore make it easier to do so
Shadows is full of tricks. While steed and the lore bonus are situational at best, there are lots of debuffs and Mindrazor is ridiculous for elves, especially if the hydra banner and/or the cauldron are kicking around: why yes, the 30+ attacks from my basic core infantry are S8 and I'm rerolling to hit. And the basic spell is useful in a lot of circumstances. Make people easier to hit, or for certain key units, debuff their I so they go after you.

Omniassiah
22-06-2010, 04:57
You have to choose your spells from higher rank casters to lowers one so yea morathi should go first

Sorry for the late reply on this one, but didn't have a chance to go in and double check. That's actually incorrect on 490 it specifically states that you pick spell one wizard at a time and it is your order to choose how they pick them. So if you do morathi first she would block out all the spells, if you do her last her special magic spell selection will allow her to keep all the spells.

Archangelion
22-06-2010, 10:59
Actually, Omniassiah, Morathi must take all the spells from the lore of Dark Magic. Because of this, she follows the exception stating that any wizard that must take certain spells does not count towards providing duplicates for your army. So it doesn't matter which order you choose your casters for this. If you have a caster that gifts you with a certain spell, great. But no matter which order you place that wizard in your spell roll off line up, the spell that the wizard must come with never counts towards the duplicate spell rule.

matticusmaximus
23-06-2010, 20:04
And GW saw that there was a great overabundance of wizards; yea, in ev'ry valley, stood a wizard, and their magic was most vex-some and unpleasant--
And the players cried, "Oh, great GW, save us from this profusion of casters! We fear mightily the Gateway Infernall, for it draggeth down our death-stars to the pit!"--
And GW looked on, and saw that it was so. And it came to pass that GW fashioned a mighty rule, such that magic could not be duplicated, and thus naturally limited wizards; for in their infinite wisdom, GW knew that people would not take lots of wizards if they were limited in what spells they knew--
And GW made it so, and there arose from the players a great wailing and gnashing of teeth; and the players cried "Why, GW? Thou hast killed our game! Yea verily, if I cannot take 15 levels of wizardry in a 2500 point game, what is the point of playing?"--
And GW looked, and saw that it was good.


^^ Ultimate win.