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View Full Version : Does the 8th ed. herald the end of pendant of cheesiness?



Sinsigel
18-06-2010, 12:17
I haven't read the rulebook personally, and can only gather 8th ed. facts from other players' posts. So please pardon me when I make mistakes.

Anyway, looking at some changes of 8th ed., it seems druchii pendant of khaleth is far less effective than it was in the 7th ed. For instance, just think of the basic spell of lore of metal. D6 armour-save denying flaming hits with NO STRENGTH VALUE but uses unmodified armour save TO WOUND. If I understand correctly, this spell alone nullifies armour of eternal servitude+pendant of khaleth combo, leaving only the black amulet as the item providing genuine ward save. Ring of Hotek remains the only problem, but I don't think basic spells require minimum of 3 dice to cast.

Well, that was my thought. Feel free to point out any errors.

Falkman
18-06-2010, 12:21
So the fact that one magic lore does not use Strength is enough for you to consider the item totally worthless now?
You certainly aren't overreacting at all...

King_Pash
18-06-2010, 12:24
To be honest, taking Lore of Metal against an army with an average armour save of 5+/4+ isn't going to get you very far..

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 12:25
On a related note. Ward saves and regeneration saves may not be taken for the same wound, meaning the unkillable dreadlord is significantly more mortal than he was in 7th edition where he'd get a 1+ armor variable ward that was usually 2-4+ and a 4+ regeneration.

Sinsigel
18-06-2010, 12:25
So the fact that one magic lore does not use Strength is enough for you to consider the item totally worthless now?
You certainly aren't overreacting at all...

Pretty much of the armies have access to lore of metal and the spell isn't too hard to cast. Compared to the 7th ed., the pendant dreadlord has become much more vulnerable that I can daresay 'end of pendant"

Spiney Norman
18-06-2010, 12:25
Lol, I wouldn't go that far, but its nice that there will now be a way of killing the immortal dread lord efficiently. Lore of metal attacks are still flaming correct? You might want to consider the number of armies that don't have access to the lore of metal...

Its still the most OP'd item in warhammer, but now it has a weakness :D

Kayosiv
18-06-2010, 12:26
Compared to the 7th ed., the pendant dreadlord has become much more vulnerable that I can daresay 'end of pendant"

Nope. I mean I guess you can say it all you want... but yeah... Nope.

Falkman
18-06-2010, 12:33
Pretty much of the armies have access to lore of metal and the spell isn't too hard to cast. Compared to the 7th ed., the pendant dreadlord has become much more vulnerable that I can daresay 'end of pendant"

Armies that have access to Lore of Metal (7):
Daemons of Chaos
Dark Elves
Empire
High Elves
Lizardmen
Vampire Counts
Warriors of Chaos

Armies that don't have access to Lore of Metal (8):
Beastmen
Bretonnia
Dwarfs
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Skaven
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves

So in fact more than half of the armies in the game don't have access to Lore of Metal.
Add to that the fact that you have to pick lores when you write your army list, and the fact that over half the armies in the game don't have much in the way of armour saves, I find myself thinking that Lore of Metal won't be the most commonly used lore.

Kerill
18-06-2010, 12:41
That spell is a mgaic missile no? So it can't pick out the dreadlord from his unit. Also the ring of ultimate cheese is even worse now considering how much worse "miscasting" is now.

Dark elves got are even better than before. The only light is that if you take a unit of 30-50 troops you might now have a chance to kill a couple of black guard in return after 20 of your troops have been turned to red mist.

rtunian
18-06-2010, 13:38
in summary: no. the pok may have gone from a 99.9 rating to a 98.7 rating (on a 100 point scale), but that's still a far cry from a 0.

Voss
18-06-2010, 14:09
The lore of death character killing spells may be effective as well. There are three spells that can target characters in units and lack a strength value. Considering they ignore armor saves as well, they are very good at just zapping characters out of existence. And the hexes in lore of death make them even more effective as well!

Spiney Norman
18-06-2010, 14:21
Add to that the fact that you have to pick lores when you write your army list, and the fact that over half the armies in the game don't have much in the way of armour saves, I find myself thinking that Lore of Metal won't be the most commonly used lore.

Surely this is a fairly meaningless distinction unless you're entering a tournement, most of the players at our group don't write their list until they get to the table, and by then, you know who you're playing.

willowdark
18-06-2010, 14:36
I haven't read the book, and neither have you, so I think this is an important distinction to clarify.

Does the lore of metal deal damage using the AS to roll to wound, or is the AS the value used to actually determine the spell's strength?

Is the AS the actual strength of the spell, or just the value to roll on the chart? At first glance in the rumours I assumed it determined the spell's actual strength.

Voss
18-06-2010, 14:45
Surely this is a fairly meaningless distinction unless you're entering a tournement, most of the players at our group don't write their list until they get to the table, and by then, you know who you're playing.

Unusual in my experience. Mostly people have their lists ready so they can get started when opponents arrive. And tailoring a list to a specific opponent is generally considered bad form.


@willowdark- its the roll, lore of metal spells have no strength value, you just roll the armor save, if successful, you wound.

kaintxu
18-06-2010, 15:01
Its still the most OP'd item in warhammer, but now it has a weakness :D

I can't agree with that, i still think Ring of Hotel is the most OP'd items in the whole WHFB + WH40k + Morheim + Necromunda + Epic + Warhammer quest + Space Hulk + ...... put together :D

The pendant still come close though

loveless
18-06-2010, 15:04
Everytime someone complains about a Dark Elf Magic Item, Mat Ward gets assigned to write another WHFB Army Book.

Just saying.

Stop for everyone's own good.

;)

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 15:06
Can a person really verify that the lore you opponent hand chosen the game was truely the lore he had chosen earlier during list making?:eyebrows:

Leth Shyish'phak
18-06-2010, 15:10
Well, its not hard to check the army list, is it?

You could say the same about magic weapons, equipment, etc.

ChaosVC
18-06-2010, 15:12
Well that means I will have to start looking at random player's list.

willowdark
18-06-2010, 15:12
I haven't finished my list yet. Hold on.

*Writes down Lore*

There, I'm done.

Leth Shyish'phak
18-06-2010, 15:15
Hardly a new problem. :eyebrows:

Hrogoff the Destructor
18-06-2010, 15:19
I can't agree with that, i still think Ring of Hotel is the most OP'd items in the whole WHFB + WH40k + Morheim + Necromunda + Epic + Warhammer quest + Space Hulk + ...... put together :D

Yeah, I gotta go with the ring too. I hate that thing with an undying passion. Well, it doesn't help that I have only seeing one game where a DE player hasn't taken it.


Everytime someone complains about a Dark Elf Magic Item, Mat Ward gets assigned to write another WHFB Army Book.

Must... resist... sigging.

Ah crap! Did he just get the Empire because of me?

EndlessBug
18-06-2010, 15:26
it doesn't help that I have only seeing one game where a DE player hasn't taken it.

I consider my area lucky then, there's only 1 player who consistently uses it. I'm one of the guys who doesn't.

Do agree that it's even worse now! Was terribad before.

the pendant has been weakened, but then again so has every ward save (by lack of combining regen with it). But yes, it's effected the pendant lord a little more now.

Bring on more using the black amulet - which is one of my favorites! :)

Randoms will get away with lore picking, regulars will be spotted pretty quickly. :)

madden
18-06-2010, 15:33
I've no probs with the lord as I use skaven plauge spells toughness tests or s2 no armour sv allowed so he dies easy or runs as his unit dies around him.

Skyros
18-06-2010, 18:21
Everytime someone complains about a Dark Elf Magic Item, Mat Ward gets assigned to write another WHFB Army Book.

Just saying.

Stop for everyone's own good.

;)

There would be no problem if Matt Ward wrote *every* WFB army book.

Anyway, the ring of hotek was always more overpowered than the pendant, and while the pendant may have gotten a teeny bit weaker, the ring just got much stronger.