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View Full Version : The War Alter in 8th



Col_Festus
18-06-2010, 14:28
So yesterday my friends and I were flipping through the book for the first time and realized how amazing the War Alter is going to be. First off no more splatting it with str 7 attacks. Gotta chew through that high toughness and ward save... yummy. Second with an Arch Lector riding it I'm fairly certain it extends his leadership range to 18" and all the benefits that entails... double yummy. Follow this up with the passive abilities of the Lore of Life it can be healed whenever you successful spells are cast.. triple yummy. Curious if any of this will be errated in the FAQ. Thoughts?

Oh and thanks to the new % system you can fit this bad boy in under 2000 points.

FailSafe07
18-06-2010, 14:36
Not to mention the fact that it gets a 2+ Ward Save against Magic...

For 325 points with the Altar, Van Horstmann's Speculum, The Armor of Meteoric Iron and the Sword of Fate, you get a model with a 1+ Armor, 4+ ward, the ability to swap stats, wound on a 2+ and cause D3 wounds against an enemy character, fire of spells from the new and much improved lore of life and use a pair of bound spells each turn...

The only nerf is the fact that you actually have to roll for the bound spells, but even then thats not that bad because you now have a bunch more power dice than you could have before...

Rockgut
18-06-2010, 14:47
"The only nerf is the fact that you actually have to roll for the bound spells, but even then thats not that bad because you now have a bunch more power dice than you could have before... "

It will be interesting to see if a miscast using the War Altar's Lore of Life spell means the ability is destroyed (like a bound item) or if it just doesn't suffer a miscast results (like a prayer). Either way, it is nice that you can't suffer the nasty miscast table with the Lector or Priests.

Odominus
18-06-2010, 16:40
Wait to see the errata before making final judgment..

Skyros
18-06-2010, 16:53
much improved lore of life and use a pair of bound spells each turn...

The War Altar uses lore of LIGHT not lore of life. Additionally, in 7e, it was ruled that neither the life healing spell nor the WP healing spell could be used to heal the chariot of wounds. I expect to see the same in 8e.




The only nerf is the fact that you actually have to roll for the bound spells

That's a HUGE nerf. Before, bound spells provided their own power dice. Now, they have to steal dice away from your wizards - and the spell may fail to go off at all or miscast!

In 7e, an AL could cast his 2 bound spells using 0 power dice. Now he has to use 4.

The war altar could cast its spell without using a power die. Now he'll have to use at least 2.

So, you went from needing 0 power dice to cast these spells, to needing 6+. That's a *gigantic* nerf. And what did you get in exchange? Nothing.

In fact, you got worse than nothing. Your spells are *worse than before* as well as needing more power dice to cast. Why? No bound spells have the caster/item level added to them. While wizard spells do.

So if a wizard lord, L4, rolls a 7, he adds 4 to it, for a final casting value of 11.
Whereas if an AL rolls a 7, he doesn't add anything to it, for a final casting value of 7.

If a wizard lord tries to dispell this, he gets to add 4, so a wizard lord can dispell your roll of 7 on two dice with a roll of 3 on one die - on average, a wizard lord will dispell an arch lectors spells while rolling one *less* die than the AL needed. That is an incredibly significant nerf.

You'd be insane to enter into a magic duel with an AL or WP. They are hopelessly outgunned.


but even then thats not that bad because you now have a bunch more power dice than you could have before...

It's terrible.

Before I might take, say, two L2's, an AL, and a WP. I would use my six power dice on my two wizards spells, and cast 3 bound spells.

Now, in 8e, I'll have, say, 7 power dice, but the AL and WP will use them all up themselves, leaving none for the wizards - bound spells needing power dice is an enormous nerf to bound spells. Before they were a weaker supplement to real magic (providing their own power dice), now they are an alternative (stealing power dice you might use on real magic) - and a very bad one, see my point about not getting to add a caster/item level to the casting value, but your opponent gets to add his wizard value to the dispell roll.

Unless the FAQ drastically changes things (and some people have already seen the FAQ and said all it does is remove the DD that WP and AL generate) I think WP and AL are going to be largely trash and not worth taking. They are hopelessly outmatched in any kind of magic fight. They won't even be worth taking to supplement your magic phase, because they steal power dice your wizard could use, and they cast weaker, more easily dispelled spells.

I'll be taking an L4 wizard instead.

Col_Festus
18-06-2010, 17:19
I wasnt so much astonished by the spell casting ability it as... but more so how annoying its going to be to kill coupled with the leadership bubble it gives.

Rockgut
18-06-2010, 17:51
I think the Lector and/or Priest could still work fine, but certainly not with a couple wizards.

In 8th, you can throw a bunch of dice at one prayer you really want to go off as opposed to the current spamming low casting value bounds to draw out dispel dice. If you get double 6's it goes off but you don't suffer the miscast. Also don't forget your opponent should always have less dispel dice than you have casting dice. So you shuld be able to get one or two prayers off, just about the same as now.

Now, if you wanted to play the Lector, a priest and 2 Lvl 2's, yea, that build is not going to work because their will be too much dice competition. But that is really the problem for any army looking to go heavy magic using multiple casters.

Skyros
18-06-2010, 18:01
I actually think the war altar is going to be even easier to kill, because of stepping up (impact hits don't reduce attacks back) and attacking in more ranks (now you have to weather twice as many attacks) and horde rules (possibly weather three times as many attacks!)

The not getting popped instantly by S7 is useful, I guess.


Also don't forget your opponent should always have less dispel dice than you have casting dice. So you shuld be able to get one or two prayers off, just about the same as now.

I don't think getting one or two prayers off is worth a significant investment in points in WP/AL. The prayers just aren't good enough.

However, I don't think you'll be able to get any prayers off.

Suppose you roll, say, a 4 and a 3 for your power pool, his dispell pool.

So you have 7 power dice to his 4 dispell dice.

You want to cast 4 prayers.

So you do two dice, two dice, two dice, 1 die.

Avg rolls of 7, 7, 7, 3.5 (this one would normally fail, since you have to get a 4 to cast, but let's pretend it works)

Opponent and his L4 wizard throw one dispell die at each prayer.

Avg dispell rolls of 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, and 7.5

Every single one of your prayers was blocked, you didn't get a single thing through, and that's without the opponent bringing any method of generating additional dispell dice.

Not promising.


Now, if you wanted to play the Lector, a priest and 2 Lvl 2's, yea, that build is not going to work because their will be too much dice competition. But that is really the problem for any army looking to go heavy magic using multiple casters.[/QUOTE]