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Stealin' Genes
19-06-2010, 15:16
So I'm thinking of falling to the dark side and starting a Space Marine army.

After reading up on the different factions, the White Scars jumped out at me. But the thing is, what I like about them is the Mongols in Space appeal, specifically.

The stereotypical Scars army is a ton of (or actually, not very many) guys on bikes. I'd be much more inclined to field maybe one normal bike squadron, mounting all my infantry in transports, and represent the chapter's preferred tactics by avoiding things like heavy weapons in tactical squads, things that can't at least keep up with a rhino like dreadnoughts, things that need to be static to be effective like devastator marines, etc.

Attack bikes (I actually think Attack Bikes are awesome, no idea how this stacks up with other SM players), Land Speeders, and tanks would do most of the heavy lifting heavy-weapons wise.

The thing is, though, that the resulting force would probably look a lot like a normal SM army, just with a few more bikes and maxed out FA slots all the time. Would people grouse at me about this? I really like the White Scars fluff and such, but I don't really want to do the "all biker" list.

Flying Toaster
19-06-2010, 15:36
Well look at the sample White Scars army that is painted in the SM codex near the back, that looks about what you say your wanting to aim for.

Hope this helps

Lord Inquisitor
19-06-2010, 15:40
Personally I feel that the Mongols-in-space archetype is best served by hordes of your super-Mongols riding their trusty steeds. I really feel the biker horde is the way to get that Mongol feel across and I think it'll be hard with most of your troops in rhinos.

Kurisu313
19-06-2010, 15:49
White Scars do not use dreadnoughts. Full Stop. That's all I care about in a White Scar force.

Otherwise, I'd suggest making sure that any infantry model has a transport, to keep with the mobile theme. White Scars make use of every codex unit except dreadnoughts, so feel free to use devastators, but I'd suggest that they don't use Thunderfire Cannons.

AndrewGPaul
19-06-2010, 15:53
The White Scars are no less tactically able than any other Chapter. Just because they have a cultural preference for riding bikes, and possibly a higher proportion of bike-mounted troops in their army, doesn't mean that they never field tactical (or Devastator, for that matter) squads. Like every other Chapter, they will field whatever troops are necessary for the mission at hand.

JackDaw
19-06-2010, 15:58
Id agree with the general feeling here - just because they like bikes, doesn't mean you dont have tactical squads.

My own White Scars list was entirely tacticals in rhinos - the idea was that the company captain had run off with all the bikers, leaving the aging Stormseer to get about with the tacticals, securing the area after the bikes had stormed through.

As already noted, the Scars list in the SM Codex has a equal number of bikes to tactical - dont feel pressured into doing an all bike list.

Just dont have Dreadnoughts. Ever. No matter how much you want to or people tell you that you should do ;)

Lord Inquisitor
19-06-2010, 16:08
I'm not saying they don't use rhinos - but if you want "Mongols in space" then a mounted horde is what you need.

yabbadabba
19-06-2010, 16:27
While I agree that WS should be a highly mobile army, that doesnt mean that Dreadnoughts or Thunderfire's should excluded. For example:

Since the first days that Jaghatai Khan lead his Legion scything through the Emperor's enemies, the White Scars have been reknowned for their lightning assaults, breathtaking skills on Bike or Speeder, and their relentless Hunts across the galaxy.
Little known to many, even their fellow astartes, is that the entire White Scar Chapter does not live, fight and die on the move. Jaghatai Khan drilled into his children the need for flexibility in their approach to defeating the Emperor's foes. Jaghatai taught his captains the value of a strong, static firbase as a tempting lure for the enemy, and how the scimitars of the brothers could trap the enemy against the implacable wall of their less mobile brother's fire power. Normally the White Scars will quite happily use the Imperial Guard or their fellow Astartes in this role, caring nought for the losses of the Guard and trusting in the professional ability of their fellow Marines.
Yet allies are few and far between in the Imperium and the White Scars must often stand alone. In these times the White Scars rely on the most revered of their Chapter to lead a chosen few to provide the bait, or to be the rock. Dreadnaughts containing the bodies of past heroes of the chapter lead in these cases. While equipped with minor speed enhancers, these mighty former White Scar veterans cannot keep up with their brethren's lightning attacks and are content with teaching the next generation and defending the relics and space crossing homes of their company. When the call comes, these monstrous mechanical ministers of the White Scars' faith stride forth to provide their fire power for their brethren by supporting tactical squads acting as bait, or by deepstriking behind a retreating enemy with the few White Scars Terminators to trap the curs between a wall of fire and the blazing power sabre's of the White Scar bike squadrons.

So there is the justification. How to implement? White Scar armies may take 1 dreadnaught for every Tactical Squad without Transport, chosen from the approriate section. Alternatively, Dreadnoughts maybe chosen as usual, but must be deployed via drop pod.

White Scar Dreadnaughts come with Reactor Overrides. Once per game, the Dreadnaught may run - +10pts

MajorWesJanson
19-06-2010, 19:56
Dreadnoughts can run anyways...

One other fluff thing I remember about White Scars is that they tend to leave sponsons off their predators to make them lighter, thus faster.

If you take a bike captain or Khan, you can run a squad or two of bikes as troops, freeing up FA slots for Assault Bikes and Speeders.

As for troops, Tac Squads in rhinos and/or razorbacks work, bike squads as said, or maybe a squad of scouts with a LS Storm for variety.

yabbadabba
19-06-2010, 20:39
Dreadnoughts can run anyways... Then give them a one use Fleet ability :D

Leftenant Gashrog
20-06-2010, 01:50
I'm with Kurisu313, the Index Astartes article didn't say the White Scars eschewed Dreadnoughts because they were slow, it said they eschewed them because they found the idea of being entombed in a cold sarcophagus in lieu of proceeding to the afterlife to be nothing short of horrifying.

I've always regarded the sponsonless Predator thing to be ludicrous - modern fluff (Imperial Armour) puts the Predators speed as only 10% (5kph) slower than the Rhino, only the most juiced up ork speed freak would think thats worth cutting your firepower in half, and I tend to think of White Scars as merely favouring mobility rather than being juiced up speed freaks. (not to mention I'm an old skool player and both Space Marine 1st edition and 40k 2nd edition had the Predator as being faster than a Rhino)

FrankieKhainor
20-06-2010, 06:57
I find that my blood scars (white scars successor) army fares fine however you do it - with Kor'sarro Khan (or Frankie Khainor as I call him) your entire army could outflank - I annihilated some tau by outflanking a land raider and dreadnought. You could easily play a game where you have heavy armour - eg. ironclads and Land raiders, outflanking, and then you have some land speeders and bike squads. Also, the new white scars commander kit could be useful - I don't have it yet but I'm happy they're finally getting something new out for white scars!

ehlijen
20-06-2010, 10:38
Look in the 3rd ed space marine codex for the first appearance of the white scars:

Some scouts, some rhino mounted marines, some speeders, some bikes and some assault marines.

Ie, all they were was a space marine army that used all three FA slots and favoured fast things, not even just bikes.

Grand Master Raziel
20-06-2010, 14:11
The Preds-without-sponsons thing was from the WS's 3rd ed White Dwarf army list, and is widely regarded as stupid. A Pred's not going to do you a hell of a lot of good without sponson weapons.

@Stealin' Genes: I say go for it. It's your army, it should make you happy. I personally agree with your take on the Scars - they should be fast, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone has to ride a bike. If that were the case, you couldn't have WS armies led by just a Chaplain or Librarian, because to get Bikes as Troops you need to field a Captain on a bike. So, your idea is perfectly valid.

metro_gnome
20-06-2010, 14:31
I annihilated some tau by outflanking a land raider and dreadnought. You could easily play a game where you have heavy armour - eg. ironclads and Land raiders, outflanking, and then you have some land speeders and bike squads.
as dreds do not have combat tactics... therefore dreds may not gain outflank through Khans chapter tactics...

Corax
21-06-2010, 10:25
The thing is, though, that the resulting force would probably look a lot like a normal SM army, just with a few more bikes and maxed out FA slots all the time. Would people grouse at me about this? I really like the White Scars fluff and such, but I don't really want to do the "all biker" list.

Don't see anything wrong with that. Its not significantly different to a Nob Biker list or any other fast attack heavy army, so go for it.

Painting all that white would be enough to drive a man to drink, though...

Kurisu313
21-06-2010, 11:00
Yabbadabba, where did that text come from? Is it canon, or did you write it?

White Scars do not use dreadnoughts, because they are against their belief system. They believe a dead warriors soul must be free to roam to the afterlife and not contained within an iron hull.

They will use every other unit in the codex though. I'd suggest the Thunderfire cannon has little favour with the white scars, but they would use it if they needed to.

I'd generally suggest that in making a white scar themed army, that any unit of infantry should have a transport. Bikes and assault marines are fast enough to keep up with the vehicles by themselves.

This my opinion only, on how I would run a white scars army. They can use more static forms of warfare, but if you've chosen White Scars, its probably because your interested in their mongol-themed hit and run sort of style.

yabbadabba
21-06-2010, 16:27
Yabbadabba, where did that text come from? Is it canon, or did you write it? Just made it up fella, why?


White Scars do not use dreadnoughts, because they are against their belief system. They believe a dead warriors soul must be free to roam to the afterlife and not contained within an iron hull. Thats alright then as Dreadnought Marines aren't dead :D

Kurisu313
21-06-2010, 18:00
Just made it up fella, why?

I asked, as you seemed to be citing it as a reference for White Scars using Dreads.


Thats alright then as Dreadnought Marines aren't dead :D

They believe that rescuing the crippled, dying marine to inter him into a sarcophagus is abhorrent.

I can't blame them for not wanting to lead a confined, crippled existence than pass into the great beyond and be free.

Simple, and absolutely canon, White Scars do. Not. Use. Dreadnoughts. Ever.

yabbadabba
21-06-2010, 18:07
I asked, as you seemed to be citing it as a reference for White Scars using Dreads. Thats right.


They believe that rescuing the crippled, dying marine to inter him into a sarcophagus is abhorrent.
I can't blame them for not wanting to lead a confined, crippled existence than pass into the great beyond and be free.
Simple, and absolutely canon, White Scars do. Not. Use. Dreadnoughts. Ever. I disagree, essentially on the basis that as there is no current White Scars codex so people are free to use whatever codex structure they choose, and whatever fighting tactics they choose. Also, using a invented White Scar successor chapter would allow you to use whatever SM units you chose.

When it comes to me deciding what my money does, nothing is canon.

Kurisu313
21-06-2010, 18:25
Thats right.

With all due respect, I don't think that something that you made up counts as a reference.



I disagree, essentially on the basis that as there is no current White Scars codex so people are free to use whatever codex structure they choose, and whatever fighting tactics they choose.

It's not a matter of codex structure, its a matter of fluff. And White Scars do have a codex, C:SM.


Also, using a invented White Scar successor chapter would allow you to use whatever SM units you chose.

Agreed, but who's talking about successor chapters?



When it comes to me deciding what my money does, nothing is canon.

Do whatever you want with your money. The hobby is yours to do with as you will. Canon is something of a fluid structure, but what is the point of collecting a White Scar army if you are going to change their fluff?

Simply put, there is no argument that White Scars use dreadnoughts. The fluff specifically states that they don't, that's all I'm saying.

yabbadabba
21-06-2010, 18:46
With all due respect, I don't think that something that you made up counts as a reference. Who said it was? I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.


It's not a matter of codex structure, its a matter of fluff. And White Scars do have a codex, C:SM. And in it, if I remember right, is no reference within the army lists or the White Scars character of not taking Dreadnoughts.


Agreed, but who's talking about successor chapters? I am.


Do whatever you want with your money. The hobby is yours to do with as you will. Canon is something of a fluid structure, but what is the point of collecting a White Scar army if you are going to change their fluff? Because you can? Because you like dreadnoughts and bikes? Because there are plenty of ways to include dreadnoughts in a WS army? Because the army list allows you. That all trumps fluff to me. Just as much as not using Dreadnoughts.


Simply put, there is no argument that White Scars use dreadnoughts. The fluff specifically states that they don't, that's all I'm saying. Current background doesn't fella - as I said the Codex says nothing about it.

I am merely advocating and providing a way of supporting open, flexible choice for the OP to enjoy themselves.

Kurisu313
21-06-2010, 19:00
Who said it was? I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm not intentionally trying to blow things out of proportion; our exchange was this:


I asked, as you seemed to be citing it as a reference for White Scars using Dreads.

Thats right.

I'm just saying that making stuff up isn't a reference.



And in it, if I remember right, is no reference within the army lists or the White Scars character of not taking Dreadnoughts.

That doesn't change the established fluff. Exodites and Kroot Mercenaries have no codex, but their fluff didn't just die.

Also, you just said that they didn't have a codex. Now you say they do. :confused:


I am.

Why? We're talking about White Scars and what White Scars do and do not do. Why suddenly say that other chapters can do what they like?



Because you can? Because you like dreadnoughts and bikes?

Still, if you like dreadnoughts and bikes, why not do a chapter that has both, rather than changing an existing chapter?


Because there are plenty of ways to include dreadnoughts in a WS army? Because the army list allows you. That all trumps fluff to me. Just as much as not using Dreadnoughts.

Well, this is just a difference of opinion; I generally try to build my armies around their background rather than what the codex allows. Some Catachan players don't use tanks, for instance. Speed Freeks ignore slow units.


Current background doesn't fella - as I said the Codex says nothing about it.

Just because the page and a half background the White Scars get doesn't mention every established fact that they ever had doesn't stop tho facts from existing. Thats why we have the index astartes articles, white dwarf, lexicanum and black library.

I mean, the guard codex doesn't mention the destroyer, conqueror, banesword, shadowsword, etc, but they didn't stop existing.



I am merely advocating and providing a way of supporting open, flexible choice for the OP to enjoy themselves.

The OP, is of course, free to do what he wants. Anyone is. If you want to paint a dread in WS colours, go ahead. But if someone asks what a White Scars is an what it does, then part of the answer I'm gonna give is that they don't use dreadnoughts.

Stealin' Genes
22-06-2010, 13:28
Thanks for the feedback, folks!

I don't really like dreads anyway, and after a little more digging I found the fluff in question, so they're out, and no big loss.

It sounds like my original idea would be fairly characterful. Part of my hesitation, honestly, is that I don't know that I want to use the special character for the White Scars, and was wondering if I'd get flack for building a list more to my liking, led by a captain or librarian, and painting it up as them.

metro_gnome
22-06-2010, 14:28
actually the captain on bike is preferable to khan on bike...
combat tactics for the whole army trumps hit and run for one unit...
and with bikes outflank is mostly wasted because they move so fast anyway...

the only time you might choose khan over a captain is to outflank a Land raider full of termies...
but this is better done if you mech the whole army and leave khan on foot..
still in a bike or mixed bike/mech... it could add a nasty CC unit to what is generally considered non-combat army...

if you're at the buying stage... I would totally recommend the raven wing boxed set...
3 of they would make a great bike based white scar army...

Creeping Dementia
22-06-2010, 14:46
I just started up a White Scars army a few weeks ago, and I love it. Mine is all Bike/Speeder though. I generally can't stand Marine armies, and I wanted to make sure my army played extremely differently from other marine armies.

Just based on my personal opinion, I wouldn't initially build a Scars army that wasn't really heavy on bikes. If you're not going bike heavy then it just seems you're using a vanilla marine army, but have to paint it white (something many hobbiests dread).

As to the Khan question, hes not bad, but really only useful in 2 builds. The first build is all bike with 2 CC bike command squads, and the second is him on foot with a couple outflanking Landraiders.
Don't feel obligated to bring Khan, you can build a perfectly acceptable White Scars list using generic characters.

Corax
22-06-2010, 19:01
Current background doesn't fella - as I said the Codex says nothing about it.


On what basis do you conclude that the information in the IA is any less valid now than it was when it was printed? The army list may have changed, but the background hasn't.

The Codex (in this case, the army list) is intended to be generic enough for all "Codex" chapters to use, so the fact that there is no "Dreadnoughts cannot be used by White Scars" text in the army list entry proves nothing. The whole point of the 5e redo (aside from making more money) of the SM codex was to get rid of fiddly chapter specific rules modifications (Traits system, etc.) such as this, so of course its not in the Codex.

While you can legally use a dreadnought in a White Scars army under 5e rules, it goes against the established canon for the chapter. If you're not going to play the chapter according to its established background, what is the point in playing it at all? You might as well just make something else up or do a bike heavy Ultramarines army and skip the whole debate.

yabbadabba
22-06-2010, 19:29
On what basis do you conclude that the information in the IA is any less valid now than it was when it was printed? The army list may have changed, but the background hasn't.
The Codex (in this case, the army list) is intended to be generic enough for all "Codex" chapters to use, so the fact that there is no "Dreadnoughts cannot be used by White Scars" text in the army list entry proves nothing. The whole point of the 5e redo (aside from making more money) of the SM codex was to get rid of fiddly chapter specific rules modifications (Traits system, etc.) such as this, so of course its not in the Codex.
While you can legally use a dreadnought in a White Scars army under 5e rules, it goes against the established canon for the chapter. If you're not going to play the chapter according to its established background, what is the point in playing it at all? You might as well just make something else up or do a bike heavy Ultramarines army and skip the whole debate. This is exactly why I challenged this. Canon is canon for GW and its IP protection police, not for its customers.

When you learn to look beyond what is being presented to you as a "basic" starting point for your hobby, so much more opens up. If you choose to play and view your hobby in exactly the terms that GW define, then that is up to you, but that doesn't present boundaries or maximum limits to this hobby, especially GW's corner of it; nobody is the arbiter of how an individual persons hobby should be enjoyed, least of all GW.

I merely presented a way where a hobbyist can explain a certain choice of models in their army - as it is this person doesn't like dreadnoughts anyway. But if he did, I would defend his right to take Dreads with a White Scars army, no matter what.

The question you should be asking is do you want to stick to the defined boundaries of GW's explanation of its background, or do you need to? Does thinking outside of the box, like GW did back in the day, cause you concerns?

This hobby is for the hobbyists, not the companies. The sig is there for a reason.

Stillfrosty
22-06-2010, 20:28
......or could it be that dreadnoughts are lame, and that their fluff completely contradicts the use of them in the army. Yes any white scars player could use dreds, they are just making their army worse off if they do

In all seriousness, when you have a proper white scars army, dreadnoughts fail to accomplish anything. They are too slow to make it into assault and they can not kill tanks better or faster then a unit of speeders or attack bikes. They are ultimately point sinks and when you start to take units that make sense such as 3 multi melta attack bikes which is about the same cost of a dreadnought then you will realize why no one wants a dread in a white scars army.

Finally, devestators are cool, just make sure you give them a transport. In a White Scars army everything is supposed to be mounted, so give them a rhino for some cover!

Corax
23-06-2010, 16:07
This is exactly why I challenged this. Canon is canon for GW and its IP protection police, not for its customers.

No. Canon is the defined elements of the setting. Everything that GW has defined is fixed in stone. Anything that they have not defined is open slather for the players. If you want to make a chapter called the "Grey Scars" and say that they are just like the White Scars but use dreads, I will have no problem with this, as GW has not said anything to directly contradict that. My issues is with people doing things that express contradict things that GW has defined.


When you learn to look beyond what is being presented to you as a "basic" starting point for your hobby, so much more opens up. If you choose to play and view your hobby in exactly the terms that GW define, then that is up to you, but that doesn't present boundaries or maximum limits to this hobby, especially GW's corner of it; nobody is the arbiter of how an individual persons hobby should be enjoyed, least of all GW.

Wow. That's pretty patronising. I'll refrain from responding because arguing on the internet makes you retarded.


I merely presented a way where a hobbyist can explain a certain choice of models in their army - as it is this person doesn't like dreadnoughts anyway. But if he did, I would defend his right to take Dreads with a White Scars army, no matter what.

No, you concocted a justification for going against the official version established by GW.


The question you should be asking is do you want to stick to the defined boundaries of GW's explanation of its background, or do you need to? Does thinking outside of the box, like GW did back in the day, cause you concerns?

Both. Anything that GW has defined is fixed, but any gaps are free to be filled in by players until such time as GW says something official that fills that gap, at which point it becomes part of the canon.

Basically, as far as I am concerned, its GW's sandbox; they just let us play in it.

yabbadabba
23-06-2010, 17:03
No. Canon is the defined elements of the setting. Everything that GW has defined is fixed in stone. Anything that they have not defined is open slather for the players. If you want to make a chapter called the "Grey Scars" and say that they are just like the White Scars but use dreads, I will have no problem with this, as GW has not said anything to directly contradict that. My issues is with people doing things that express contradict things that GW has defined. Let me point out the hole in your logic. Tycho, Eldrad - by your reasoning a player cannot use these models in their army unless they sepcifically state that the battle they are fighting is pre-armageddon or pre-eot. Are you seriously going to hold that against them? Tycho is dead, and Eldrad is a Blackstone Fortress - will you insist that an opponent models that to take part in a campaign? By extension, you have just set yourself up as the arbiter of a gamers spending habits if they want to play with you. Yes it is an extreme way if looking at it, but thats how it could be taken. I buy a model. I have the rules for that model. If my opponent agrees, I can use that model how I see fit including changing its rules.


Wow. That's pretty patronising. I'll refrain from responding because arguing on the internet makes you retarded. There is no patronising there because none was intended, and there is nothing there to suggest it. However...
......or could it be that dreadnoughts are lame, is patronising because it isn't set in a context and by implication questions anyone choosing a dreadnought for their army. I am sure it wan't intended and the poster meant that Dreadnoughts, in his opinion, didn't suit a White Scars type army.


No, you concocted a justification for going against the official version established by GW. Its the same thing, just a different view point.


Both. Anything that GW has defined is fixed, but any gaps are free to be filled in by players until such time as GW says something official that fills that gap, at which point it becomes part of the canon. Thats your view. I choose another, and one which GW themselves have used. Now there could be an discussion for whats canon and whats not.


Basically, as far as I am concerned, its GW's sandbox; they just let us play in it. I don't, and that is the crux of this argument. GW don't tell me how to paint, what to buy, when to buy, how to play or anything else. GW surrenders all control over how I choose to enjoy my hobby once I have bought their stuff. And, until fairly recently, that was actively encouraged by the company themselves.

Corax
24-06-2010, 16:17
Let me point out the hole in your logic. Tycho, Eldrad - by your reasoning a player cannot use these models in their army unless they sepcifically state that the battle they are fighting is pre-armageddon or pre-eot.

I've never heard of anyone ever specifying when in the 40k timeline their game was being played. No-one has ever said, "We're playing 2,000pts pre-Armageddon III". Besides, the use of things like dreads is not going change subject when the game occurs in the 40k storyline, so the comparison is meaningless.


Are you seriously going to hold that against them? Tycho is dead, and Eldrad is a Blackstone Fortress - will you insist that an opponent models that to take part in a campaign? By extension, you have just set yourself up as the arbiter of a gamers spending habits if they want to play with you. Yes it is an extreme way if looking at it, but thats how it could be taken. I buy a model. I have the rules for that model. If my opponent agrees, I can use that model how I see fit including changing its rules.

What can I say, I'm an jerk. Although to be honest, I will accept that people can play anything that is allowed by the codex they are using, but I will lose all respect for them. Which is precisely why I only play 40k with my fluff-nazi mates.

yabbadabba
24-06-2010, 16:20
Corax, if you can't handle answering the points, don't get involved with the discussions.

Corax
24-06-2010, 16:56
Corax, if you can't handle answering the points, don't get involved with the discussions.

I will as soon as you say something worth answering.

yabbadabba
24-06-2010, 17:03
I will as soon as you say something worth answering. Really? Is that it? Ok.

@ Stealin Genes - as you can tell, I am very, very pro-your choice mate. I'd play you. You might want to consider the environment that you are playing in. If it is an ultra competitive tournament atmosphere you may get some issues. On the other hand a background driven or balanced player base is unlikely to have any issues at all as long as you stick to the rulebook and a codex. The people you need to ask are the people you play with the most.

carlisimo
24-06-2010, 17:04
White Scars were not your invention. Someone else came up with the color scheme, backstory, and army limitations, and now you want to come in and take the good without the bad.

That isn't against the rules, but it's kind of lame. Well, using dreadnoughts or other slow units (i.e. without transports) would be lame. There's nothing wrong at all with using few or no bikes at all, because you're right, they aren't 100% bike-mounted. They just need to be fully mechanized. No dreadnoughts.

If you want to use dreadnoughts, then realize that you're not using GW's White Scars. You're creating your own chapter with its own history. Maybe it's a White Scars successor chapter that uses the same iconography. That's a good thing, because their default color scheme isn't very good.

AndrewGPaul
24-06-2010, 18:53
Huh? If you change the colour scheme from white, then you're not using the same iconography.

If you want your Whitescars to use Dreadnoughts, go for it. You're not breaking any rules. All you're doing is saying that in your setting, the Whitescars do use dreadnoughts.

"Someone else came up with the color scheme, backstory, and army limitations, and now you want to come in and take the good without the bad."

What "good" is he taking? He's still using Codex: Space Marines, like every other Whitescars army.

Lordmonkey
25-06-2010, 00:50
After reading up on the different factions, the White Scars jumped out at me.

Ack, did you dodge in time? Nasty buggers them khans.

Having a White Scars army with infantry in it (shock horror) wouldn't be unfluffy. Contrary to popular belief, they actually get off their bikes whilst off duty and sometimes when they go to sleep (as rare as that may be for an Astartes in the field).

Do it. There should be *some* bikes but, for me, it's more about the mongolian-esqe facial hair and topknots ^^