View Full Version : Huge Units(Long and/or Wide) Characters and Leadership Modifications

20-06-2010, 21:26
I have read alot of the forum posts lately about unit sizes going up astronomically etc etc. I think alot of people are forgetting a few things. To remind people about the reality of this unit size escalation I wanted to write a few notes.

1. Hordes or those tarpit steadfast units generally win by attrition combined with ranks, steadfast, BSB rerolls and generals Leadership. Once u start removing any of these factors Hordes will fall. They often wont win on combat res alone.

Example : Take the 100 strong night goblin unit. With an orc warboss and bsb handy these guys will be sticking aorund on 9 rerolleable. Take the BSB and general out of the equation and you have leadership 5 goblins. It doesnt matter if they are 100 strong or 30 strong. They will still break on that 5.


A. With 'stepping up' elite infantry can put a hurt on any character.
B. Better yet get a manoueverable Character of your own to address these threats. Every list is capable of making a character hunter. With the addition of 'The other rogue stone' (magic item that forces succeful ward saves to be rerolled) you really should be going all out for those characters, especially if you are elves or some ill suited to attrition race.
C. Now im not 100% sure on this but if they refuse a challenge they can move to the back rank and all of their leadership bonuses are gone.

Now thats easier said than done so another step can be taken to mitigate the unit size escalation.

Leadership modifiers.
- Alot of armies have access to the lore of death. Doom and darkness gives a -3 leadership penalty. Something that should be feared by any horde.
- Many have leadership modifying items. I.E the Doom totem in the WoC book. -1 leadership can make all the difference in a prolonged combat.

Hordes arnt the be all and end all of this edition. They are good but you can be damn certain they have a counter. If ur an elf Id be damn sure I have some character killing tools at your disposal.


20-06-2010, 21:41
1. People have different opinions of course but running any unit as a horde that isn't likely to win or at least come close is a bad idea. Forget HW/S and spear units as horde.

GW is the only way to go, this way your actually doing a LOT of killing.

The other option is to run really cheap horde units, 2pt noblers I could definitely run as a horde, or 3pt goblins. The idea is to run them at the enemies most important unit to stall them for a turn or two.

The strangest thing seems to be that people always calculate how the horde will do against 1 enemy unit. Though seeing how wide a frontage they have there is little reason for just 1 unit to charge them.

They are likely to face 2 units. Imagine what happens when a horde unit (not the GW marauders or dwarves but pretty much any other) runs into a unit of goblins with more ranks than your horde AND a elite unit that will actually beat them on kills. nice!

So sad my lizardmen have no 2pt models to help me out with this.

20-06-2010, 22:01
Hmm let me rephrase the OP. I actually meant the real deep ranked steadfast units as well as hordes. I menat breaking those long narrow units more importantly.