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Crimifa
21-06-2010, 04:27
i shall begin with some insecurities that i have about the placement of this thread. I settled on general discussion as this thread contains questions, ideas and discussion regarding The Troll King Throgg and his armylists. with diverse elements such as potential rules issues (some of which i am sure will need to wait for the errata), modeling and also viablity.

Now i have always liked the idea of commanding a monsterous horde of grubblies and whilst pondering what my army for 8th edition will be, i came across an interesting concept on how to fluffily build a Throgg army... a single solid core of trolls with Throgg leading it that scales in size based on the game i playing (in 3000 points it goes full horde!!! maybe even before that, not sure).
this leads to my first question, with the shift from slots to percentages, is it allowed to take a single super expensive core choice that consumes your 25% minimum?
if that is not the case, (this one may need to wait for errata) would chaos warhounds contribute to the extra percentage for core? (if slots are still somewhat in use then they won't use up a min 2 core choices, but i haven't seen anything saying that this is the case)
next is regarding stupidity, what are its rules now? i haven't been able to find what stupidity will do now (i believe it will be unchanged, but who knows maybe they just stand there staring into space now?)
finally (another possible wait for the errata question, but i shall still put it up for people to think about, think of the potential!) Throgg himself and his rules
(question edited, i reread his rules and they are rather clear, in my musings i mistakenly believed that he counted as a general and a BSB for troll units and stuff... unfortunately that is not entirely the case, but still THINK OF THE POTENTIAL!!! Ld 8, rerolling stupidity tests right?)

now for a question of tactics, running some more numbers just now... getting the BSB into the 1250 point list is looking rather painful, it does allow the rerolling of ALL leadership tests right? if yes, then it will be a nice thing to have in 2000pts, if no, well then shall have to look elsewhere for standards necessary for breakpoint (i noticed thats an area this list may have trouble, only ogres have standards...)
magic, sorcerers needed to be dispell scroll caddies arn't as vital now right?... but i would still like a nice fire mage in there to provide ranged blastering... is a single level 1 wizard capable of providing a bit of magical support in the horde of trolls? or does he need to be level 2 before he can start helping out in that department?

i really hope i can get away with the single unit of trolls idea, the horde rules for 8th edition, you need to use 18 trolls to get proper effect out of it... and thats enough for 25% of like 3000 points! its just so cool!!! to have 6x3 unit of trolls all of them able to attack with their full complement of attacks (provided they haven't mutated to have an additional attack or something lol, only front rank get that) and then stomp!, i wonder if vomit will apply to all ranks? 18 str5 no armour save attacks lol

last section, is with regards to the modelling of this army. Throgg is looking to expand the icy troll country right? so modeling them to be snow and alpine based with icicles and other stuff would be fluffy right?
as for the trolls themselves, i love the river trolls so much (plus they are cheaper) than the other trolls... only issue is their aquatic nature, do you think that with a nice colder paint scheme they would look fine as being Throgg's horde? Throgg himself would be converted out of one!

ogres, i would use normal bulls or ironguts...but i want to convert them to be slower in appearance to the hunter (i would use hunters if only they weren't so gosh darn expensive) the hunter's look seems to suit the idea of ogres who live in the harsh winter's of troll country.

wolves are fine as is with some snow in their fur or something (ACTUALLY! that reminds me, i had a rules question regarding wolves, they arn't fast cavalry right? does that mean that if you take a unit of 10 or more... they can deny ranks in the flank? and how far would they charge under the new random charges 2D6+M or 3D6{-lowest}+M?)

dragon ogres, love them, disliking of their model though. It jars with the theme and other ogres i have, i was going to use a conversion between normal bulls and the old cold ones... but came up with a better idea more fitting with the cold north feel, yetis have close stat line to dragon ogres. Would using yetis as count as dragon ogres cause contention? i just believe that they fit with the theme SO much more!!! it would look cool, plus i love the yeti models (it also helps with another idea i have that i will explain later)

finally, rares are fairly straightforeward, except the warshrine... it fights like a monster right? so would it be alright to use a converted bigger monster thing (think akin to hydras, actually lol, initial idea was to use a hydra) as a count as? i could handwave fluff stating that it is a powerful monstrosity that empowers others around it, inspiring monsterous presence or whatnot... (doubt i would use a warshrine anyway lol)

the last point i wish to raise with regard to this list, is my worry about the fact that it is a "gimmick" list, advice i have recieved about choosing armies is to steer clear of obviously gimmicky lists as you are likely to get shafted when the army book changes... but i have an idea around that, by focusing on common points between this list and the ogre kindoms army book (ogres, yetis, giants... and the trolls as count as bulls and throgg as a tyrant, and me troll shamans as butchers) then i can switch this over to being a ogrekingdoms army list fairly easy... and as they are a "true" army book... i doubt they will get shafted in a nolonger usable kind of way...

forgive the length of the post and i look forward to what people have to say regarding my ideas here

TL: DR condensed version of most importance- can you take only one big expensive core choice in 8th edition?

Paraelix
21-06-2010, 04:46
Yes. But you must have 3 units and 1 char minimum. To my knowledge, units that don't count as mandatory choices now also don't count as mandatory %.

Crimifa
21-06-2010, 05:18
excellent!

one big unit of trolls (6), 2 units of ogres with standards, throgg to lead it and a sorcerer... and something from the rare choice (shaggoth looking nice) and there is around 1250pts (the starting point in my area, some torney thing uses that many points for some reason) and some warhounds to provide flanking and flesh out points

3000 point list is what i aiming for though lol, monsterous horde of troll!!!

Gorak
21-06-2010, 05:24
would chaos warhounds contribute to the extra percentage for core? -no if unit states in it's army book it do not cout toward core choices it does not count for %. I would find room for bsb as yes it does allow re-rolls on all ld tests!

Crimifa
21-06-2010, 06:06
thats ok, the single unit of trolls more than easily will take up my entire 25% no matter the points cost... the warhounds is to provide rankbreaking light hammer/flanking units to my almight anvil of trolls!

and yes BSB very good to have... however, chaos warriors bsbs are expensive as a fish and doesn't look like anything but the exalted hero can take em... such an annoyance (means less trolly-grubbles)

stupidity remains unchanged right?

Coldblood666
21-06-2010, 07:17
I also have begun a Throgg themed army. I bought 3 boxes of the new trolls and so have 9 total. I was going to create Throgg out of 1 of them and use the other 8 in one big unit. Or maybe drop one and use 7 so then when I add Throgg to the unit ill have a even unit of 8. I also have used 4 Ogre Ironguts and converted them up nicely to be Chaos Ogres in chaos armour with great-weapons.

I also like the ice/snow theme and I think 2 big units of Tzeentch warriors (blue) would compliment the army well. I also plan on using hellcannon (just too good to pass up now).

Fluff wise I could say it was a alliance between Throggs horde and a warband of Zteentch. All in all it will make a great modeling and painting opportunity.

Vile Druchii
23-06-2010, 21:27
The sky's the limit with this kind of army, as there's so much scope for modelling and 'counts as'. My Troll King army is built around two large units of trolls, one with Throgg, one with his lieutenant Grimble. I use the rules for an exalted hero on a daemonic mount for Grimble, and have given him the Helm of Many Eyes and Bloodcurdling Roar to closely represent his rules as a troll. He's my general, so around my trolls I actually have two bubbles of Leadership, which means I can split them up.

I've also got a Troll Shaman (Sorcerer on Daemonic steed) Fizzig. Depending on the size of the games I play, he may become a Lord level.

I've found using rules like this is a nice, characterful way of building a very unique, characterful army, albeit one that isn't massively competitive (as if that matters!)